The sway bar story Part 1
 

Okay I do not make many posts too old I guess. Last year I bought the red Racing Beat front and rear sway bars. I have over the years purchased quite a few things from them and always been a happy camper.

Put them on bolted right up. Took the car for a spin and the rear came around like a corrupt politician. The car was tail happy in both right and left hand turns.

Not only that, but traction was down. Had wheel hop for the first time.

Here are some photos to get you started. It shows that there is indeed differences between the RB rear bar and MS rear bar. The RB bar is both thicker and the dog leg is longer

Yes FDnewBe be the man I got the Mazdaspeed bars from. He also sent the bushings for the Mazdaspped sway bars. :)

Not to be picky, but Sway Bars are only a part of the entire handling equation. What shocks/springs are you using? Alignment settings? Since Stabilizer Bars reduce body roll (and also reduce the independent nature of your suspension to a slight degree), This will also mean that your alignment settings need to be adjusted for your suspension Characteristics.

Stiffer Stabilizers are better for quick transitions (ie auto-cross)
Softer Stabilizers are better for slower transitions (ie road course racing)

From the sounds of it, the rear bar is too stiff for your current setup... or the front bar is too soft. Also, what are your tire pressures like? And lastly, what type of cornering were you doing? (speed, traction conditions, on/off power, quick transition, slow transitions)

Suspension setup is an art. It will also be affected by your driving style.

EDIT - guessing from the wheel hop, the rear bar is too stiff for your current setup.

Part 2
 

The setup on the car is all OEM. Only thing that was changed is the sway bars that is why I thought it odd that the handling changed so.

Next step was to look at the rear to see if I could see anything. I put the car on jack stand and jacked the rear wheels up to see if there was any binding.

What I noticed was that the RB bars were indeed binding when the second hole was used. See Pics.
In this series of pictures you should notice that I painted the RB bars black with a wax under coating. I like the idea of the RB bars but do not like red ones. Looks kinda child like.

However even when I used the first hole the tail happy car continued on its evil way.

Here are some pictures of what I did.

Part 3
 

I did the same thing with the front. Used a block of wood to change the wheel hight. Saw no issue with the front. Here are some pics

Racing Beat Sway Bar sizw
 

Here is the size of the RB front bar

A stiffer rear bar will make the car oversteer more. That's a fact. A bar that is binding will prevent the suspension from working properly. In my case, my car was understeering pretty badly. I changed the alignment, but it didn't do enough. Next, I installed a 93 rear sway bar. It is thicker and stiffer than my 94 bar. That helped a lot. The car is pretty neutral now (stock suspension and wheels), with just a touch of understeer. I would prefer a touch of oversteer, but have not done anything about it yet.

Part 4
 

With the fitment issue of the RB bars and the fact the car was unsafe to drive I put the OEM bars back on and all was well. 7 was a 7 again

When I took off the Racing Beat bars however I noticed that the rear bar was bent. That is to say one of the dog legs was 2 inches higher than the other. Upon inspection the bent dog leg it was found to be on the wheel that was moved threw it vertical motion, to check for mechanical binding, and was indeed the bent leg.

When I inspected the Racing Beat rear bar and the bent dog leg I assumed that it came that way or I had a big wreck I did not know about.

I figured that what the hell. Put it in the vise and bend it back. I bent like butter.

What I just learned was the rear Racing Beat sway bar was NOT TEMPERED!!!

Sway bars are springs. No temper no spring

I contacted Racing Beat. I sent the bars back. Mr Jim Tanner is my POC
They sent them back. Same bars same problem. However Mr. Tanner stated that the RB bars were the same size as the Mazdaspeed but different bar diameter. More on this later. Its not that I did not believe him it that I did not believe him.
Without a set of Mazdaspeed bars I had to take Mr. Tanner at his word.


FDnewBe gets into the picture. I ordered some hard to find Mazdaspeed sway bars for the seven and waited (the half life of a color TV) before I got them. I got them at a good price and I got the Mazdaspeed bushings to boot.
The fronts are the same kinda. There appears to be a small difference in the bend of the bar at the end. Diameter of the RB bars are bigger. I could not tell if the temper of the front RB bars was correct or even present. My test with the block of wood showed nothing to indicate an issue

The Racing Beat rears are different. The dog leg is longer. and causes binding as the pictures show. The rear Racing Beat bar also lacks any real temper and so takes a set and causes, at least in my case, a big safety issue. The car became very tail happy.
After the same test, with the jack, I unbolted the Mazdaspeed rear sway bar to see if it would bend. Nope. The Mazdaspeed bar showed no sigh of taking a set.
Dog legs remain true and level.

Drove the car around and drove like a dream.

Part 5
 

Now that I have all the information and can speak to Mr. Tanner of Racing Beat with gather data instead of opinion, I am sending the Racing Beat Sway bars back to them and asking for a full refund. We will see if they can do that.

Mr Tanner has seen these bars before. I will find it interesting as to his response to the issues raised here.

A) The Racing Beat should consider the possibility of a quality control issues from their subcontractors

B) Mr Tanner may consider the possibility that just sending back a set of defective sway bars does not correct the problem.

C) Racing beat my need to consider the possibility that the rear bar has a fitment issue as well as a mechanical issue.

D) I have no evidence that the front sway bar is bad. Then again I have no evidence that it is any good either. That is a fact. BUT I DO NOT TRUST THE POSSIBILITY THAT THE RACING BEAT SWAY BAR MAYBE GOOD.
Until proven otherwise I am going to assume that the Racing Beat Sway bars were made at the same facility with the same process.

The Mazdaspeed sway bars are as advertised (by FDnewBE) as the right bars for the car. The car corners as if on a rail. Then again anything would be better than the Racing Beat Bars.

Conclusion: A lot of time and energy was spent. I am left confused by Racing Beats response to my concerns. FDnewBE sells the real deal at a good price. I have other products on my car from Racing Beat and all of the highest quality. It appears that Mr. Tanner and I had a communication problem. I was not able to convince him of the concerns I had and he did not believe I would take the time to cross check him opinions.

Comments?

It sounds as if you have enough data to suppourt the idea that the rear bar is bad, or may not have been properly tempered... The front you don't really have any sort of a case on, but that you already stated. Good luck with RB. The main thing is that now you have on some sway bars that you are pleased with and the car handles like you wanted it to. Unfortunately it may come at a loss of cash on the RB bars.

I really do appreciate all of this information. I was actually looking into the RB bars and I will wait to see how they handle this problem of yours before ordering. I may just do the same as you and order the MS ones from fdnewbie. Maybe that is a better idea anyways.... But sounds like it would require a bit of waiting.

:rofl: I'm sorry Doc...had some complications on that order for sure. But honestly, like 90% of it was Mazdaspeed's mixup. Nonetheless, my apologies for the extended wait, my appreciation for your patience, and my happiness for your satisfaction :)

Na I'm ever continually streamlining my shipping process and turnaround time. It's not as easy as it seems, b/c faster turnaround = higher shipping cost. So it's a tradeoff, and finding the happy medium is quite challenging.

Wow...I think you've sold ME on these things lol. I think I'm gonna hafta get me a set for my FD :D I hope everything works out w/ RB as well...

~Ramy
FDNewbie Imports

While FDnewbe did take some time to get the part to me let me take the time to make it clear where I stand on this issue

I ordered several hard to find part from him. 1) A Mazdaspeed intercooler. one of a kind hard to find and cost like hell. He got it when no one else and I MEAN ON ONE ELSE said it was possible and I might add at a GOOD price. a real good price. He got me the Mazdaspeed sway bars and the right bushings as well.

No one is perfect and it did take some time BUT the parts I got were in perfect condition and as I ordered. Can't beat that with a stick.

Enough Said

Part 6
 

Hope this answers the question

Thanks Doc-1 for bringing this on to the forum. I too bought a RB rear bar, which was advertised by Tri-Point as the complement to their front adjustable bar. I have to say that I have never been pleased with it. First of all the bushings didn't fit in the stock metal clamps. I had to work a lot to get it to fit. I contacted RB about this and they basically dismissed me as a nobody. Next is the same problem you had with the binding. It is as if they made the bar but never tested it. I have aftermarket shocks, which are wider. I can't even use the outer hole and so I am forced to use the stiffer setting via the inside hole. My inspection showed that the inside hole on their bar is at the same location as the stock bar's single hole. The second hole that I can't use is an extension to the bar, which clearly interferes with the shock.

I'm not sure about the temper but maybe I'll check that this summer. If that is true I'll be even more disappointed with the quality of their products. I probably won't even be able to resell such a hunk of crap if it isn't tempered properly.

All I wanted was an adjustable rear bar but I can't even adjust it. Bah...

Last part
 

This is what eats you alive. By preloading a side of the car you are much more likely to lose control. If you have these bars there is a chance this is what you have in the rear.

By the way I painted the Mazdaspeed sway bars black. Who wants a black and green car?????

One word, wow. That should be impossible with normal use. I will check my car ASAP for this problem.

dis1

Damn, I'm glad I never installed the RB bars I had bought for my FD. Ended up turning around and re-selling them years ago......

OOO.... I in no way ever thought you were complaining that it took too long if that is the way I may have come across. What I meant by just waiting was I know of coarse those parts are more difficult to come by and do require a bit more patience than those that are available here in the states within a few days.. I have heard NOTHING but good things about Ramy and how he is able to find those IMPOSSIBLE items such as the IC you ordered. That is all I meant... No offense inteded Ramy...I didn't think I was coming across like that.

On that note, Ramy could you pm me a price on these bars?
Thanks - Noah

haha maybe you sold them to this guy...thats a big diffrence. I would hate for mine to look like that

Another Racing Beat issue...Front bar
 

By coincidence (?) I called RB Wednesday to complain about my front bar. I installed the bar last July in time for the Larry Park memorial auto-X here in CA. Handling of the car was different since I had added the ft. bar, tokico's, more agressive wheel allignment and a strut tower brace. I looped the car a couple of times, but just figured I had to learn to set it up and / or learn to drive with the new set-up.

I've just been cruising the car around since last July, but last week did the pillow ball bushing replacement on the rear suspension. When the car was up on the rack, I discover the end bolt (through the end link) on the right side of the sway bar IS MISSING! It must have come loose and the final 1/4 inch of threads were completely gone. It may have happened at the auto-X, I will never know. We tapped the threads to a slightly larger size and installed a larger bolt to reassemble the car to get it home.

Called RB and they said it couldn't be a problem with the bar, I must have not tightened the bolt properly. YEA RIGHT, it's pretty tough to tighten 6 bolts and torque them. I told him that it definitely was installed correctly, and I suspected a problem with the machining of the threads, the bar itself or the bolt. After checking with someone while I was on hold, he repeated that their bars don't fail like mine did, and they wouldn't do anything about it.
(i.e. TOUGH SHIT!!!)

Not the best customer service in my opinion. I'm pretty leary about using the repaired bar, and I'm doing a track event at Thunderhill park in April. I'm tempted to reinstall the stock one.

Maybe they have quality problems at Racing Beat, and are not as reputable as they would like us to think. We definitely know they are not considering customers' concerns to be legitimate.

Anybody else having issues with their RB bars?????

This isn't a good news for me..

I just bought a new front and rear RB swaybars. DAMN!

I read so many good things about them in the past.. I guess I should of searched more??

I've sent RB a link to this thread and I hope they get on here and say something about it.. If not, I'm sending mine back and get an MS bars. Glad I read this, as I was going to install it this weekend!

PHIL

Phil, I'll keep an eye out for your order :D

I will have to remember this when it comes time for me to buy sway bars. I was thinking of getting the RB ones. They are about 5 min from my house. I guess that idea just went ou the window.

Thnaks for the info. :beerchug:

No offense gen3, but that sounds like an installation issue not a problem with the bar.

Racing Beat has provided a lot of good products for our cars for many years. They have also done a good job of supporting the rotary community.

That being said, I really don't care too much for the owner. In my limited experience with him, I found him to be a condescending liar. Not a nice guy at all. Of course, maybe that comes from years of dealing with people like us :D :rlaugh::rlaugh::rlaugh::rlaugh:

I also have the RB bars! About the rear issue, don't these look similar? (RB top - MS bottom)

I'll even say that the MS one looks worse as it contacts the shock sooner thet the RB one? Or my eyes deceive me?

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...d=226487&stc=1

This may help explain why there is contact with the RacingBeat rear Bar. Then again maybe not. I check for contact and did not find any with the Mazdaspeed rear bar. That aside. The car drives much better with a tempered rear sway bar than with one that is not.

wow thank god for this thread i just cancled my order for theses im looking into the mazdaspeeds

Is there any problem with the RB front sway bar? All I Have thus far is the front. If a better combination could be achieved with a different brand rear bar, I would rather go that way. I guess I was going off of reputation when I ordered the front bar (and support piece). The whole non-tempered thing scares me. I thought tempering was a necessary part of creating spring steel?

That's what they told me... LOL... Trust me, I do know how to install a bolt and use a torque wrench. (righty tighty correct?) Followed instruction sheet to the letter.

I don't think a search would reveal many RB past problems, I had a RB bar on my '91 T-II, autocrossed & tracked it for 3 years and never had an issue...

What upsets me is they are saying I didn't install it correctly and that is BS.

I've had a pair on my car now for a couple of years and noticed better handling over the 94 Touring OEM's. I also installed Tokicos and Eibachs at the same time.

I did however have a problem with side to side ride height. On the rear the retaining clamps(to prevent lateral movement) were not correct and caused a drop on the left side. The whole bar was shifted to the drivers side by about an inch. I have pics, but I'm not at that computer to paste. I never had a rubbing issue since i used the inner holes.

I actually have the car jacked up for the ever so fun fuel filter change and am going to take another look and see if mine are bent.

My front bar was shifted to the driver's side also, but I figured it was because the end bolt had worked loose & pulled out. I will be removing the bar to inspect it for bends when I get time. If Doc-1's bar was not tempered, he may not be the only one with the problem.

Racing Beat
 

Guys,

I will take a look into this and let you know what I find out. This post has me scratching my head a bit, we have sold well over 500 of these sets over the years and we have had extremely few complaints.

Although forums are a great way to discuss issue, man, sometime these things really take off and snowball into something that just is without merit. Trust me guys, we aren't out to screw you out of your hard earned cash. We've been around for 35 years and we stand behind our products and they are all backed by a 1-year warranty.

If you are having a problem, or have a question about one of our products.... call us! We'll be glad to give you answers to your questions, without any sales pitch or hype.

I will foward this post to Jim Mederer for review and get back with his report.

Jim Langer
Racing Beat, Inc.

Jim, I guess you got my email? Glad to see someone getting on here and post a response!

I ordered the RB set many years ago (in the 90's) when the front bar was hollow and had aluminun adjustable ends like the original Tri-Point bar. The front bar worked great, but the rear gave me problems. It was attached per spec but it also bound up and bent. I probably should have notified RB, but just threw it away, sold the front, and bought other bars.

How many others never reported this problem?

I'm running a Racing Beat front swaybar (with Mazdatrix endlinks) and the OEM 94 Base setup in the rear. The car is much more neutral than it was with the stock swaybar in the front.

I picked up a set of OEM 93 swaybars because I'd prefer a hollow bar over a solid one, but I haven't gotten around to installing them yet.

-s-

I was planning on ordering the racing beat bars because I've always heard good things so this is my question, wouldn't it be better for the bars not to be tempered because that way they will bend to a certain extent with the car without actually cracking compared to the mazdaspeed bar? I was planning on re-doing the suspension with coilovers as well so if anyone has an advice for me that'd be great.

I been email with Jim Langer from RB and after several emails, I feel confident about RB's quality and going to give them a try!

Racing Beat FD3S Bars
 

This message is in regards to complaints that have been brought up regards the bars that we offer for the FD3S application. I have spoken at length with Jim Mederer, Racing Beat’s co-founder and chief engineer, and our contact at our sway bar supplier for this application. (We have been using this very large and well-known supplier of sway bars for many years.)

They both indicate that the issue of heat treating and tempering of sway bars is typically unnecessary for “street” bars. This process might be of some benefit for a sway bar that facing extreme bending forces through a wide range of travel (i.e, off road racing), something that is not a concern on a lowered RX-7. If a bar fails, it is more common to see a clean break than a bent bar. “Bending” a bar is fairly uncommon and is usually the result of an over extension of the bar – such as you might encounter in an accident, etc..

I don’t typically come onto the forums and relate information regarding specific issues that we have had with our customers. With regards to the initial post in this thread, we undertook several steps in an attempt to please this customer. However the manner in which the bar was returned to us (it was sent without a box via UPS) made it difficult to determine if there was a problem with the bar.. or the UPS shipping system! This issue, and some other “red flags” that were raised, led us to believe that this might just be a “one-off” issue.

If you have any issues with any of our products, give us a call and let us know. If we have a problem we want to know about it so that we can fix the problem. Hey, we’re just a bunch of car guys that want to provide other car guys with parts for their cars!

Jim Langer
Racing Beat, Inc.

edit: I'll just stay out of this.

has anyone herd any bad or good on the swift sway bars? i was thinking of getting some

Is is kinda odd that I am a red flag. Has me wondering how a person becomes a "red flag".

I took a lot of time and energy to resolve this issue. Did not throw any stones or use terms that would make it a emotional issue.

Not sure what I think of the statement that the sway bars are not tempered. That makes these sway bars a rather large wire instead of a spring. Not sure how one would do weight transfer with a soft wire without pulleys and such.

I can say with authorty that the Mazdaspeed sway bars are tempered. So are the ones on all of the cars and trucks that are sold in north America.

Hollow sway bars are also torsion bars "kinda". The M1 Tanks uses torsion bars as springs. They are tempered as well.

Comments

Im glad I read this thread. Im sold on the MazdaSpeed ones now. Its dissapointing to read about this RB product. Ive purchased several parts from them in the past and have been nothing but impressed. Seems like maybe they took some shortcuts when they engineered this one. Who knows.

FWIW, I’ve been racing with an RB rear bar and Tripoint front bar for 6 years now and have had no issue with either. I have broken 3 pair of the Tripoint reinforced front sway bar mounts so I would say that I have put the sway bars though a pretty good test. I just recently installed a new RB rear bar/ Tripoint front bar (.188) on a customer’s car and after the first race all is good and he is very happy with the way the car is handling.

The RB bar is obviously too long to begin with. The fact that that issue was not addresed with a " we have fixed that". Coupled with the fact that they are not tempered has convinced me to never buy one. And in the future I will think twice about buying any thing from them.

"Red Flag" - He sounds like a politician.

Jim,

this is a piss-poor excuse for customer service. I do not plan on ordering from your company.

I'll take you up on your offer to call....
 

[QUOTE=Racing Beat Inc]This message is in regards to complaints that have been brought up regards the bars that we offer for the FD3S application. I have spoken at length with Jim Mederer, Racing Beat’s co-founder and chief engineer, and our contact at our sway bar supplier for this application. (We have been using this very large and well-known supplier of sway bars for many years.)

They both indicate that the issue of heat treating and tempering of sway bars is typically unnecessary for “street” bars. This process might be of some benefit for a sway bar that facing extreme bending forces through a wide range of travel (i.e, off road racing), something that is not a concern on a lowered RX-7.

I will be contacting Racing Beat a second time, and you personally Jim, to discuss my issue again. My FD is not lowered, so is a non-tempered bar an issue for me and others who have not dropped their cars?

I was told during my call last week, that my front bar was improperly installed at the link end, an insinuation that is completely false. The instructions were followed that came with the bar and everything torqued to specification. It was done in a shop, on a lift, and was a very simple process.

I am looking forward to a resolution of this issue as I will not feel safe running the car at an autocross or track event, until there is a credible explanation as to what happened to my bar.

I ran an RB front bar last year in SCCA SOLO II and was very happy. I just put the rear bar on last night, and drove the car today. I noticed no catastrophic oversteer. I will hold on to my old bar just in case. The RB rear bar is set to the back holes (stiffer). I'll let you guys know how it holds up after the first event in April, granted I get my boost issues fixed.