Suspension Geometery comparison FD to RX8?
06-25-13, 06:43 AM
#77
Wastegate John
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Long Island NY 11746
Posts: 2,979
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes
on
9 Posts
WHERE???? LOL , I'm about to go look at a 99 spec long block for a swap onto my car ,I'm still going to use my old harness / rats nest .
BUT I WOULD BE VERY happy if it came with the said check valve do you know where its located ? wether if its in the rack ? or somewhere in the pump?
BUT I WOULD BE VERY happy if it came with the said check valve do you know where its located ? wether if its in the rack ? or somewhere in the pump?
Also, AFIK the EBD is only on 2001 and 2002 cars.
The 99 up ABS units were 4 channel so you would also have to add a second brake line to the rear of the car.
06-25-13, 09:19 AM
#79
The entire ABS system is different. If you are getting a front clip you will be missing most of the wiring harness including the ABS computer that is mounted in the rear of the car.
Also, AFIK the EBD is only on 2001 and 2002 cars.
The 99 up ABS units were 4 channel so you would also have to add a second brake line to the rear of the car.
Also, AFIK the EBD is only on 2001 and 2002 cars.
The 99 up ABS units were 4 channel so you would also have to add a second brake line to the rear of the car.
just the power steering restrictor is what I was reffering to , but it seems I may not be getting a 99 motor anyways .
06-25-13, 11:48 AM
#80
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,800
Received 2,574 Likes
on
1,830 Posts
actually the popular tire for the FD crowd was that dunlop, D40M2? EVERY FD had those in the 90's, they were cheap...
06-25-13, 01:31 PM
#81
reliable performance
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It could have been a matter of supply if some of the other cars got Dunlops.
The factory preferred tire the first year seemed to be the 2 types of Bridgestones put on the two suspensions, R1 and standard. For the R2 they switched to Pirelli. When I bought my standard suspension car in '95 it came with the Bridgestone Expedia S-01 tires. They seemed to suit the car well, but of course, like all tires, they eventually got hard. Then you found the rear end swinging out on you coming out of corners.
06-25-13, 01:40 PM
#82
reliable performance
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So many performance cars these days have their tires specifically engineered for them to work with the suspension. Then a few years go on, the tires get worn, and now those tires are out of production. What do you do?
Tire technology advances on, but the specifics of any new tire may not match perfectly with your car. I've found new tires almost always change the feel of my cars, but not always for the better. For instance, some tires may feel more stable and have better grip, but then you find you've lost some of the feel of precision in the steering feedback. Stuff like that.
Tire technology advances on, but the specifics of any new tire may not match perfectly with your car. I've found new tires almost always change the feel of my cars, but not always for the better. For instance, some tires may feel more stable and have better grip, but then you find you've lost some of the feel of precision in the steering feedback. Stuff like that.
06-25-13, 02:21 PM
#83
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,800
Received 2,574 Likes
on
1,830 Posts
It could have been a matter of supply if some of the other cars got Dunlops.
The factory preferred tire the first year seemed to be the 2 types of Bridgestones put on the two suspensions, R1 and standard. For the R2 they switched to Pirelli. When I bought my standard suspension car in '95 it came with the Bridgestone Expedia S-01 tires. They seemed to suit the car well, but of course, like all tires, they eventually got hard. Then you found the rear end swinging out on you coming out of corners.
The factory preferred tire the first year seemed to be the 2 types of Bridgestones put on the two suspensions, R1 and standard. For the R2 they switched to Pirelli. When I bought my standard suspension car in '95 it came with the Bridgestone Expedia S-01 tires. They seemed to suit the car well, but of course, like all tires, they eventually got hard. Then you found the rear end swinging out on you coming out of corners.
if you're talking new tires, the 94 tourings got goodyears...
06-25-13, 05:59 PM
#84
reliable performance
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wasn't talking about tires purchased by owners in the aftermarket. I was talking about the tires chosen by engineers at the factory. They put out a spec to manufacturers and then did extensive tire testing. They seemed most satisfied with the two types of Bridgestones that were developed. The Dunlops didn't give the best performance but they liked the ride, and they were at or near the weight requirement, so they went on some cars---some automatics, as I recall.
There's a detailed book on the development of the FD and it covers how the Mazda engineers looked at tires.
And yes, some cars got Goodyears at the factory. GS-C's, I think. I don't have a Touring....it's the Popular Equipment Group option....sorta the same thing. While waiting for delivery I remember thinking about what tires I'd get. I was happy when it arrived with the Bridgestone Expedias.
There's a detailed book on the development of the FD and it covers how the Mazda engineers looked at tires.
And yes, some cars got Goodyears at the factory. GS-C's, I think. I don't have a Touring....it's the Popular Equipment Group option....sorta the same thing. While waiting for delivery I remember thinking about what tires I'd get. I was happy when it arrived with the Bridgestone Expedias.
06-25-13, 07:50 PM
#85
I would think something that would reduce the amount of power assist on the FD by, say, 15% to 20% would be a significant improvement. The FD steering feels over-boosted.
I owned a 3 series BMW when I bought my FD and the steering feel of the BMW was always better even though the overall handling of the RX-7 is sharper, more precise, and has higher limits.
I owned a 3 series BMW when I bought my FD and the steering feel of the BMW was always better even though the overall handling of the RX-7 is sharper, more precise, and has higher limits.
06-26-13, 10:36 PM
#87
reliable performance
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The closest I've heard to doing something that would reduce the amount of power assist came on p.3 of this thread when Blue TII wrote:
"Racers sometimes drill out the restrictors on a PS pumps outlet to lower the pressure and therefore assist"
I'm not brave enough to try it myself, but maybe we'll hear from someone who's done it.
06-28-13, 06:16 AM
#89
If RX-8's had superior suspensions to FD 7's the SCCA SSM class would be dominated by 8's instead of 7's, after all the rules would equalize engine selection and weight leaving chassis
I believe that is flawed reasoning. I think the FD dominates SSM because it is being driven in SSM.
The RX-8 could be in SM or SSM depending on weight/displacement, but I don't think people are racing it there.
RX-8 owners don't have the fanatical passion for performance FD owners do and that is really what makes the FD dominate SSM.
I believe that is flawed reasoning. I think the FD dominates SSM because it is being driven in SSM.
The RX-8 could be in SM or SSM depending on weight/displacement, but I don't think people are racing it there.
RX-8 owners don't have the fanatical passion for performance FD owners do and that is really what makes the FD dominate SSM.
06-28-13, 08:55 AM
#90
Rotary Enthusiast
Do people race with turbo or supercharged RX-8s on the track? I've heard of an RX-8 with a 20B (e.g. Sylvain Tremblay's SpeedSource car) but I haven't heard of a boosted Renesis engine lasting in competition.
Last edited by HiWire; 06-28-13 at 09:03 AM.
06-28-13, 05:22 PM
#91
I believe that is flawed reasoning. I think the FD dominates SSM because it is being driven in SSM.
The RX-8 could be in SM or SSM depending on weight/displacement, but I don't think people are racing it there.
RX-8 owners don't have the fanatical passion for performance FD owners do and that is really what makes the FD dominate SSM.
Some RX-8 owners have that passion for performance in modified cars, but they dont' seem to be autocrossing.
In any case, the RX-8 would be an SM car.
You may recall just a few years ago Rod Millen had a drift car for a season.
It was an RX-8 with 13B-REW.
07-26-13, 11:28 AM
#92
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,800
Received 2,574 Likes
on
1,830 Posts
i actually had a chance to drive an FD the other day that involved going further than the smog station! i even took a corner!
anyways, the driving position of the FD is still really nice, although the steering wheel is like 1/4" too low. i really like the instant response of the twins, its the best thing about the car.
so on the turns the steering feel is actually pretty similar, the way both chassis react to steering input, the big difference is that the FD gives you a lot of feedback, and its kind of exciting, and makes you feel like you're going really fast.
the Rx8 feels really planted and composed, so it feels slower.
the difference is that when you take each car up in the mountains the FD feels like its going to kill you (and sometimes does), and the Rx8 you just cruise and catch people, although to be fair the average driver here is so slow, i was passing people in the 1958 Tr3 too. The Tr3 is more fun than either the FD or the Rx8, btw
anyways, the driving position of the FD is still really nice, although the steering wheel is like 1/4" too low. i really like the instant response of the twins, its the best thing about the car.
so on the turns the steering feel is actually pretty similar, the way both chassis react to steering input, the big difference is that the FD gives you a lot of feedback, and its kind of exciting, and makes you feel like you're going really fast.
the Rx8 feels really planted and composed, so it feels slower.
the difference is that when you take each car up in the mountains the FD feels like its going to kill you (and sometimes does), and the Rx8 you just cruise and catch people, although to be fair the average driver here is so slow, i was passing people in the 1958 Tr3 too. The Tr3 is more fun than either the FD or the Rx8, btw
07-26-13, 05:09 PM
#94
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,800
Received 2,574 Likes
on
1,830 Posts
nope, but a 20B is shorter than the stock engine, so it could very easily, the triumph even mounts on the front cover like a 1st gen Rx7, and the shifter is in approximately the same place, it would be a really easy swap.
HOWEVER, the Tr3 is scary on the stock suspension, so tripling the power, would probably be a really bad idea!
the other one is the MGB, its been a while since i measured it, but i think the early Rx7 12A engine and transmission would literally bolt in. or be really really close, again same front mount bracket, shifter is in the right place...
HOWEVER, the Tr3 is scary on the stock suspension, so tripling the power, would probably be a really bad idea!
the other one is the MGB, its been a while since i measured it, but i think the early Rx7 12A engine and transmission would literally bolt in. or be really really close, again same front mount bracket, shifter is in the right place...
