psychot|K

1QWIK7:I forgot to mention so thanks for clarifying, it's impossible to do 400RWHP @ 9psi on the stock CT12 turbos. But with a big enough single, it's pretty easy, mostly cause it's icy cool air.

njstreetrx7

damn hes on single and i kept up....mmmm cant wait to see him on the big single>>>just for fun!!if i had the single then i wouldve murdered him...but its all in fun!

njstreetrx7

and saying that 600 plus hp supras dont break anything......is truly wrong...when ur in the racing scene things break, things happen. supra motors blow also. im on that forum too!
toyota supra is very reliable and make good power....but at 600 plus hp reliablity decreases.

i blew 2 motors due to spiking in cold weather(people who know me know i daily my CAR rain sleet snow). and that was due to not keeping an eye ON MY BOOST. through my experiences i would never say my car isnt as reliable as the next supra. BUT READING THE horror stories on the FORUM ANOTHER PERSON WOULD THINK OTHERWISE.....good luck

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

Not even talking about racing, im talking about the average joe's routine.

An FD will more likely run into problems (any) moreso than a supra. A toyota is far more reliable, been like that since day one and still to this day and will so in the future.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Hmmm.. Sure Supra's are reliable than rotary.. so are other turbo charged piston engines.

But I think you guys are missing somethings.... I've been on this forum since 2001. Been around rotaries since mid 90s. Since being on this forum and owning an FD, the whole reliability issues have gone down DRASTICALLY! Why?? We know more about this engine!

You guys have to think how many shops in this country deal with Piston engines and how many that deals with rotary. I say less than 1% of shops in the country will work on rotaries and really know how to work on rotaries.. If there are more people strive to make things better, I think rotaries could be reliable and make as much power as Piston engines.

Look at what Crispeed could do with 2 rotor engine, large single, and good tuning.. 600+RWHP @ 30+Psi.. As more people strive to try new things and try to make it better, more reliable and better our cars going to be... Its that simple Its just that piston guys have MORE people and More shops..

crazyrx7

Just ask the DSM guys how reliable their motors are. 90% of them are rebuilt or in the process of being rebuilt (all though they won't admit it). I was also on a skyline forum where they were talking about reliability and the rb26. They say that a gtr that is near stock/slightly modded with 100000km is ready for a rebuild. Its funny how people say that rotaries are crap when most honda guys are on their 2nd or 3rd motors.

I agree with herblenny about the reliablity of the rotary motor increasing. Guys are making more power than before.



R.K.

psychot|K

EXACTLY! I hate how everyone thinks the RB26 is indestructable. Maybe after a $50,000 rebuild. Which is why (and I always get flamed for this) I say that the 1JZ is a better engine than the RB26. I'm sorry but it just is. 1JZ can rev just as high on a stock valvetrain (if you remove the limit) and make just as much power on a stock bottom end. Considering they're both TT, they weigh just about the same too.

njstreetrx7

damn amen amenm!! u guys are speaking the truth

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

I couldnt have said it better. Rotary guys today are top notch and i cant wait til i blow my engine (ironic for this thread? lol) so i can drop a properly built engine and know that its done right.

But you have to understand, what we're talking about here, these engines (2JZ) are what came from factory, some of them being 10+ year old too. For an engine that old to withstand the abuse being put on it today from these kids who wanna drop singles and go nuts, i think thats pretty outstanding to say these engines are one of a kind.

I mean how many FD's have you seen, even with low mileage, blown? Theres quite a bit. Or how many who out of the blue, something goes wrong? Can you really blame operator error? What is the limit to where you can say, nah its the car this time, thats my point im trying to make.

With other cars, like the supra since its the subject in this thread, they compensate driver error with already great engineering. You can detonate it and it will still run strong. You can run 24psi on an untuned engine. Theres no limit.

JustinStrife

iTrader: (2)

I bet the LS1 in my Corvette, or the Lt1 in my dad's 96 Corvette will last 2-3x as long as your or my Rotaries.

I'm not exactly known for babying my cars either...

matty

plenty of cars can eat up a single turbo supra.....150 shot z06 are a dime a dozen around here.

psychot|K

Big single or small?
If it's big, I'd put my money on the Supra, any day of the week.

mdpalmer

iTrader: (24)

I hear ya man. I know what you mean, but my point was that people forget to QUALIFY their reliability statements with a few necessary details. Stuff like definitions (when you mean last 2x long... you mean 2x miles? or do you mean 2x years/months/etc.) and assumptions about the setup (stock C5 VS stock FD?) That's all I'm trying to say.

njstreetrx7

rotaries just dont blow out of the blue....and yes u can run 24 lbs on a rotary w out it being tuned as long as everything is on point fuel..ect.....but but noone would recomend. thats not the point. dont get me wrong that supra engine is the ****. yes u can detonate a supra motor and it still might run strong( I MEAN IT IS A PISTON MOTOR! ). OUR MOTORS HATE DETONATION, U MIGHT DETONATE ONE TIME AND UR MOTOR MIGHT BE GONE! I bet supra owners DONT WANT TO DETONATE! i feel alot of fd's blow because of mistakes by the owners, even me. For example, when i had my t2 i went to several places trying to diagnose my hesitating. I often REVed THROUGH IT. I EVEN RACED ON IT, soon after i blew my motor due to fuel cut i went to many performance car shops and they couldnt diagnose, one tech even said just keep driving it may go away!!( AND I DROVE IT FOR MONTHSthis way, and the rotary isnt reliable/strong?).... We dont have alot of GOOD rotary specialists so people try to work on thier cars themselves and often thats when things go wrong and break. To be honest there isnt many rotary shops around, so its hard to get info or GOOD tuning, rotory specialists(GOOD ONES) are a dime a dozen. in matter of fact lets take ur car for instance (1quik7). look how hard it was to fix ur problem at an expensive rotary shop. time and time again u went back, and got the same bullshit results, and still ur not happy. if u had a supra ur car would be properly fixed because almost anyone can work on a piston motor(and there is MORE room for error) i always tell my mechanic, also a good friend of mine that, if it wasnt for you i wouldnt own an rx7, and i mean it. In japan the RX7 gets ALOT MOR LUV THAN THE SUPRA. out there there are so many GOOD tuners. 1quik7 i think if u lived in japan w ur car u would think differently about the rx7! I luv my car. and too be honest if i hadd to choose another car it would probaly be the supra! but right now the rx7 is whats up...lol

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

You agree but at the same time I feel like you disagree.

You, Me and most of us on this forum and other forums know that almost anyone could build a piston engine fairly well. Piston engines are made by every single manufacturers and they all share almost identical in set up.. We also know why people put chevy engines into FDs... And I personally seen a twin turbo charged, stock LS1 engine break up like hell and still maintained and intacted after runs after runs after runs... Where, if it was on a rotary engine, it could of blown to pieces..

The point is, even Piston engines evolved from trial and error and those who experimented to make it better.. I think its silly to compare the two and say rotary is unreliable... as we all know, if you add displacement to rotary engines, it will make more horsepower and right set up, its more reliable.. And sometimes far more power than piston engines in similar size. I personally think you guys are comparing apples and oranges.. I used to compare them and realize, why?? I didn't buy an FD to put a piston nor thinking its far better design than piston.. Its different! And different is good sometimes... hence why we all get on this damn forum and waste hours and hours of our life talking about it!! LOL!

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

I see what you're saying and apples to oranges is the perfect example for this thread.

Because you look at the past decades. Look where piston engines evolved from. Then you look at the rotary engine. How much did the rotary evolve?? Not much, i mean the renesis is the latest we got. The rotary engine, IMO, was not known and prob never will be in the future to be a relaible source, mixed with performance factor for the consumer. Its made to rev high and satisfy the rotary and high rev fanatic's needs. We can only blame that on the design of the engine, theres no room for improvement. The Renesis is the closest to the best technology we have, again IMO, that we will see to a perfect rotary engine, and even that is not good enough. The engine has been out for a long time as well, there has to be a reason why no one has stepped up to make this better. I feel like they didnt because they cant. Only way to make power is to go boost and that leads to catastrophes as we all seen with FD's.

Piston engines will always be superior in my eyes, im afraid to admit it but it is. You guys might not agree but thats a fact. Too many decades of R&D went into this. Look at every single manufacturer and compare. Look at ferrari's engines, look at bmw's engines, look at the hybrids, look at the LS7. Theres soo much advancement, technology in there, you have to understand the difference between efficiency, driveability and performance. I dont believe an engine can have 1 or 2, but it should have all. Something the rotary engine doesnt comply with IMO.

JustinStrife

iTrader: (2)

How about all the above? I run with alot of boosted Corvettes, and they NEVER worry about popping a motor. We go out, an hour away from home(coming from all over Southern California), and do a 150-200 mile drive out in the desert and mountain roads. Not once have I seen a Corvette have an engine problem. Add salt to the wound, and every single LS1 and LT1, has enough gas in the tank to get home, and go to work the next day, after an all day run.

Even my friend's Stroked LS2 402 Supercharged with 740bpu/650rwhp Corvette gets 25mpg on the freeway w/ 3.90 gearing driving 80-90.

I love my FD, but the 13b cannot compare to an LS1/2/6/7. It just can't. The ONLY thing it does better, is rev.

B00STEDseven

the rotarys biggest downfall is emissions. its that simple.

Sure 7ltr v8s are nice. but a 3/4 rotor would be better

B00STEDseven

I got a single turbo saying LS7 is some doodoo.
Your FD might not compare, but ill take my chances against any
latest MY Zo6, vipers, porsche tt's, bmw, benz, ferrari and etc..
any day of the week. on a track or 1/4 mile.

if you and your friends go out "cruising" all day long 300 miles from
home, and still be able to drive to work and etc etc.. Its obvious
that you all drive miss daisy.. geesh, like its even relevant.
and to say any GM product is trouble free, is laughable.

JustinStrife

iTrader: (2)

Troll much?

Never said any GM product is trouble free. I never said we drove like Ms. Daisy. Why don't you pull your head out of your ***, and actually read what people post? Anybody can be an ***-wipe. It takes brains to actually comprehend what people are talking about. You fail hard.

Unholy FD3S

agreed with Strife, take it easy man.

JustinStrife

iTrader: (2)

I love my FD. There's some very fast FD's out there. Frankly, I think it's one of the sexiest designs ever made. But having been around Lt1 and LS series V8's, I can tell you, they are just about bulletproof. I wouldn't own most other GM products(maybe LS1 swapped Pontiac Solstice would be fun), since I think most of them are crap.

However, our 13b's just aren't as comprable to what powers Corvettes. Try taking 30+ FD's out for runs 1-2 times a month. 150-300 mile runs through canyons and desert roads, seeing 150+ in the middle of the summer. Tell me how many can make it through a summer, let alone year to year. And do it, while passing every gas station along the way.

jacobcartmill

iTrader: (6)

probability of ANY RANDOM THREAD on this board turning into a 13b vs V8 thread:

2:1

mirabile

hahaha

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

See, this kind of stereotype about Rotary FDs are completely wrong! I don't want to get into the history of FDs but what you are saying is WRONG! I been organizing Deals Gap runs for past 2 years. Out of that event we had 0 mechanical failures. Acturally, last year a guy in an 95 Supra single broke down at the Gap. And most of us drove at least 200 miles to get there, Drove hard thru the Dragon for over 2-3 hours and next day drove hard on Skyway (which goes from 500ft to over 5000ft elevation) and no FDs broke down.

The point is, once again, you are comparing one model of rotary engine to one of the TOP piston engine that is available in this country. I consider LS7 a great engine.. But I consider 20B to be better (just my opinion). Why not comprare similar size engine like a civic or toyota all trac engine? But this isn't about piston vs rotary.. because they are once again, apples and oranges.. If you guys like piston engines so much, why not go buy a z06 instead of putting it in FDs? Why put a 2000+ engine thats supposed to be such a technologically modern and put it into a 15 year old car?? Why spend 20+K on a swap when you could go buy a more modern used z06? What because you like the body style?? Why not go buy an 911 turbo?? Why not go buy a Ferrari or Lambo?? Better yet Veyron?? They are Piston engines too, right?? Maybe far better than LS7??
What because most of people on this forum are younger then 30 and can't afford machines like that?? So, why compare TOP production Piston engines to rotaries?? Once again, why not compare it to Hundai's 4 cylinder engines to 2 rotor rotaries?? Why not compare 16 cylinder Veyron engine to 2 rotor FD engine??

Stop comparing Pistons and Rotaries! Its like comparing PCs to Macs. There are gazillion PC laptops/desktops, and only hand full of Macs. The combination of comparisions are limitless and pointless. They run different operating systems but do similiar things.. So, what do people do, compare... Just like some of you comparing select few piston engines from hundreds to 1-2 rotary engines?? Point is... We all know Mac's are better computer LOL!