Is the stock radiator good??? do you really have to go with aftermarket???
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 291
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From: The 'Nati, Ohio
Originally posted by RonKMiller
Let's see... I live in Tucson where the temperatures from May 1 until October 1 are usually damn hot, and the pavement temps are around 140 degrees F most of the time in the afternoon. I've owned my FD3S since new, April of '93, and have 75,000 miles on the STOCK radiator. I run an intake, dp, cat back and upgraded M2 ECU. I figure that's good for about an extra 30 hp over stock. Distilled water and Water Wetter only in the cooling system. I've never overheated - even sitting in stop and go driving with the AC on high for an extended period of time. I call that more than adequate. If you are burning up engines there is another reason, it sure as hell isn't because the stock rad isn't up to the job. A dp will get rid of more heat than any other mod. Like I said, if your're running higher than 300hp by all means upgrade the rad, but then you are getting into tons of other issues to keep things under control as well. A faulty thermostat and/or burst AST are the BIG issues when it comes to overheating and are cheap to fix and need close attention. What's the number one way ANY internal combustion engine is cooled? Gasoline. What kills more O Rings (rotaries) than anything? - running lean. Buy a dp and dual sensor EGT - still less than a Fluidyne or Koyo. The dp prevents heat and the EGT let's you keep real time track of your engine should you start to run lean - no more guessing. Is my radiator on it's last legs? Probably. But I also pulled it (really easy) power flushed it and tested it last year (really easy and cheap - $14.00 at the local rad shop) and everything is fine. I'll replace it with an aftermarket for $200.00 WITHOUT the plastic end tanks when it's time......I've seen more people waste more money on **** they really don't need while neglecting basic maintenance. Ya, the Fluidyne is nice and shiney but who sees it once it's installed? For most owners it is total overkill, and the Evans coolant is also.
Let's see... I live in Tucson where the temperatures from May 1 until October 1 are usually damn hot, and the pavement temps are around 140 degrees F most of the time in the afternoon. I've owned my FD3S since new, April of '93, and have 75,000 miles on the STOCK radiator. I run an intake, dp, cat back and upgraded M2 ECU. I figure that's good for about an extra 30 hp over stock. Distilled water and Water Wetter only in the cooling system. I've never overheated - even sitting in stop and go driving with the AC on high for an extended period of time. I call that more than adequate. If you are burning up engines there is another reason, it sure as hell isn't because the stock rad isn't up to the job. A dp will get rid of more heat than any other mod. Like I said, if your're running higher than 300hp by all means upgrade the rad, but then you are getting into tons of other issues to keep things under control as well. A faulty thermostat and/or burst AST are the BIG issues when it comes to overheating and are cheap to fix and need close attention. What's the number one way ANY internal combustion engine is cooled? Gasoline. What kills more O Rings (rotaries) than anything? - running lean. Buy a dp and dual sensor EGT - still less than a Fluidyne or Koyo. The dp prevents heat and the EGT let's you keep real time track of your engine should you start to run lean - no more guessing. Is my radiator on it's last legs? Probably. But I also pulled it (really easy) power flushed it and tested it last year (really easy and cheap - $14.00 at the local rad shop) and everything is fine. I'll replace it with an aftermarket for $200.00 WITHOUT the plastic end tanks when it's time......I've seen more people waste more money on **** they really don't need while neglecting basic maintenance. Ya, the Fluidyne is nice and shiney but who sees it once it's installed? For most owners it is total overkill, and the Evans coolant is also.
I just replaced my stock one with an [B]all metal[B\] OEM type radiator. It is cooling fine. I saved $250 over the Fluidyne.
Edit...
However, it is an upgrade in my mind, over the stock radiator because it doesn't have plastic end tanks.
My radiator DID fail at the end tank...but I was lucky enough to catch it.
Later,
Patrick
Last edited by pweizman; Mar 4, 2002 at 12:15 PM.
Jinx
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,260
Likes: 1
From: Raleigh, NC
Just go thru and see how many end tank ruptures there have been. The stock one cools adequately for most of our applications, but when the plastic end tanks splits it can be costly if you don't catch it in time. Sure there are many stock AST's out there too, but where would you put your money if you were a betting person.
WTB** Very Low Miles 94-95
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,298
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From: Tejas
to ron:
youre car may be the exception to the rule. Ive seen too many cars go bad from too much heat. there were three in the shop last I stopped by. wanna know how many third gens were there total? ....three. all needed new motors due to o ring failure...and all had ecu's. ...have you ever opened that motor of yours?...just cuz it runs doesnt mean that your o rings arent lookin like burnt boogers. truth be found when you open that baby up. and believe me...truth hurts. lol
I agree that proper maintenance is key. But just because you cant see the radiator like a trophy and just because it is nice and shiny does NOT mean that you shouldnt do the mod. Its all good maintenance.
yes the ecu is a good mod....you will notice a huge difference with a streetport (in power) when you add the ecu. ..not to detonation prevention.
it is of my opinion that you need both.
ron has fairly low milage on his car and seems to be the lucky one in the group...congrats on having a sweet car. Honestly..I wish I had such good experiences. Indeed, must be a strong machine to handle tuscon heat.
however, he is getting close to that milage range where the gremlins are born. the question is...do you want to extend yourself past that range or do you want to just dump your wallet at 80-100k like most everyone else.
the ecu and the radiator are the twe best mods to get for engine safekeeping in my opinion (depending on your mod level of course). Both are important....
you can see my mod list...I learned my lesson the hard way. It wont happen again. The fluidyne is going in.
j
youre car may be the exception to the rule. Ive seen too many cars go bad from too much heat. there were three in the shop last I stopped by. wanna know how many third gens were there total? ....three. all needed new motors due to o ring failure...and all had ecu's. ...have you ever opened that motor of yours?...just cuz it runs doesnt mean that your o rings arent lookin like burnt boogers. truth be found when you open that baby up. and believe me...truth hurts. lol
I agree that proper maintenance is key. But just because you cant see the radiator like a trophy and just because it is nice and shiny does NOT mean that you shouldnt do the mod. Its all good maintenance.
yes the ecu is a good mod....you will notice a huge difference with a streetport (in power) when you add the ecu. ..not to detonation prevention.
it is of my opinion that you need both.
ron has fairly low milage on his car and seems to be the lucky one in the group...congrats on having a sweet car. Honestly..I wish I had such good experiences. Indeed, must be a strong machine to handle tuscon heat.
however, he is getting close to that milage range where the gremlins are born. the question is...do you want to extend yourself past that range or do you want to just dump your wallet at 80-100k like most everyone else.
the ecu and the radiator are the twe best mods to get for engine safekeeping in my opinion (depending on your mod level of course). Both are important....
you can see my mod list...I learned my lesson the hard way. It wont happen again. The fluidyne is going in.
j
Last edited by artguy; Mar 4, 2002 at 12:59 PM.
1JZ powered
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Where there's only two seasons, hot and wet! I love Okinawa
All you guys who are saying that your stock radiator is fine, are you guys using the stock water temp gauge?
That thing is WAY off!!! When my water temp hit 110 C, I looked down and my stock water temp never moved above the middle.
You have to measure with an aftermarket water temp gauge, or the power FC.
Like I said, if you have a power FC and the new Datalogit equipment, and you turn your fan on at a lower temperature, then your FD will have no problems cooling.
In the hot Okinawan heat, at IDLE, my car's water temp is 80 degrees C STEADY. When I took it out yesterday, we raced from Ginowan to Naha, which is a bit of stop and go traffic, with a few straights to REALLY rail on it. After we got to our destination, I checked my water temp peak and the highest my water temp got was 91 degrees celsius racing during the day.
HOWEVER, the stock radiator does have plastic end tanks, so that is definitely a no-no. It's the first thing that you should do after replacing the plastic AST tank.
Either way, better safe than sorry.
That thing is WAY off!!! When my water temp hit 110 C, I looked down and my stock water temp never moved above the middle.
You have to measure with an aftermarket water temp gauge, or the power FC.
Like I said, if you have a power FC and the new Datalogit equipment, and you turn your fan on at a lower temperature, then your FD will have no problems cooling.
In the hot Okinawan heat, at IDLE, my car's water temp is 80 degrees C STEADY. When I took it out yesterday, we raced from Ginowan to Naha, which is a bit of stop and go traffic, with a few straights to REALLY rail on it. After we got to our destination, I checked my water temp peak and the highest my water temp got was 91 degrees celsius racing during the day.
HOWEVER, the stock radiator does have plastic end tanks, so that is definitely a no-no. It's the first thing that you should do after replacing the plastic AST tank.
Either way, better safe than sorry.
Blow up or win
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 2,014
Likes: 3
From: Altezzaville
Artguy:
Ya know, the more I look at this whole thread the more I realize we agree on the same stuff! Nuff said.....I think if you have the bucks buy the Fluidyne, throw the stocker in the trash, if not keep it and watch it carefully 'cause it could strand you and hurt you. Oh, BTW, my O rings are already toasted but Copper Block Weld came to the rescue over 6,000 miles ago. I'm just by nature a really thrifty bastard... Later.
Ya know, the more I look at this whole thread the more I realize we agree on the same stuff! Nuff said.....I think if you have the bucks buy the Fluidyne, throw the stocker in the trash, if not keep it and watch it carefully 'cause it could strand you and hurt you. Oh, BTW, my O rings are already toasted but Copper Block Weld came to the rescue over 6,000 miles ago. I'm just by nature a really thrifty bastard... Later.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 291
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From: The 'Nati, Ohio
Originally posted by jspecracer7
snip....
In the hot Okinawan heat, at IDLE, my car's water temp is 80 degrees C STEADY. When I took it out yesterday, we raced from Ginowan to Naha, which is a bit of stop and go traffic, with a few straights to REALLY rail on it. After we got to our destination, I checked my water temp peak and the highest my water temp got was 91 degrees celsius racing during the day.
HOWEVER, the stock radiator does have plastic end tanks, so that is definitely a no-no. It's the first thing that you should do after replacing the plastic AST tank.
Either way, better safe than sorry.
snip....
In the hot Okinawan heat, at IDLE, my car's water temp is 80 degrees C STEADY. When I took it out yesterday, we raced from Ginowan to Naha, which is a bit of stop and go traffic, with a few straights to REALLY rail on it. After we got to our destination, I checked my water temp peak and the highest my water temp got was 91 degrees celsius racing during the day.
HOWEVER, the stock radiator does have plastic end tanks, so that is definitely a no-no. It's the first thing that you should do after replacing the plastic AST tank.
Either way, better safe than sorry.
My car idles at like 190 F, and it is 30 degrees F here....
Do you have a Koyo or Fluidyne? I have a OEM replacement all metal radiator.
Patrick
Last edited by pweizman; Mar 4, 2002 at 08:07 PM.
1JZ powered
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Where there's only two seasons, hot and wet! I love Okinawa
Originally posted by pweizman
80 degrees C at idle? That is incredible. The thermostat isn't even open at that point. What is the outside temp when your car is idling at 80 degrees C?
My car idles at like 190 F, and it is 30 degrees F here....
Do you have a Koyo or Fluidyne? I have a OEM replacement all metal radiator.
Patrick
80 degrees C at idle? That is incredible. The thermostat isn't even open at that point. What is the outside temp when your car is idling at 80 degrees C?
My car idles at like 190 F, and it is 30 degrees F here....
Do you have a Koyo or Fluidyne? I have a OEM replacement all metal radiator.
Patrick
It's about 75 degrees F. outside. When we railed on it, it was a little cooler than that(maybe 70 degrees F).
My water temp gauge and the power FC read almost identical water temps.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 41
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From: -
my car runs cooler with the a/c on than with it off. in traffic or at idle w/ ac on, temp is around 84C. with the a/c off, temp climbs to 90-110C on a remanfd engine. The OEM radiator *may not* cool the car sufficiently without the help of the fans.
As a test for those who support the OEM radiator, turn off the a/c so the fans don't turn on, and ride the car normally.
Are the temps still as low as w/ fan?
At idle for 10mins, is the car about to overheat?
Do the upgraded radiators do a better job at idle w/o fans?
Although I think that if your fans are on, and your mods are stock to moderate, the OEM rad is fine, I would still like the answers to the questions above.
As a test for those who support the OEM radiator, turn off the a/c so the fans don't turn on, and ride the car normally.
Are the temps still as low as w/ fan?
At idle for 10mins, is the car about to overheat?
Do the upgraded radiators do a better job at idle w/o fans?
Although I think that if your fans are on, and your mods are stock to moderate, the OEM rad is fine, I would still like the answers to the questions above.
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