smic vs fmic(hard facts no b.s.)
02-19-04, 01:07 AM
#26
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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I love it when the "Brains" battle it out on the forum.
*grabs popcorn*
Seriously, my intake temps on my Greddy SMIC ranges from the 30's - 40's on an average cool day.
My custom duct that has a greater opening and surface area coverage than using the stock duct for this SMIC.
Pics of my duct:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...highlight=duct
*grabs popcorn*
Seriously, my intake temps on my Greddy SMIC ranges from the 30's - 40's on an average cool day.
My custom duct that has a greater opening and surface area coverage than using the stock duct for this SMIC.
Pics of my duct:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...highlight=duct
02-19-04, 01:43 AM
#27
BATMAN I have a SPAL fan attached to my greddy SMIC along with a pettit air duct and in traffic at lights I see roughly 40-45C intake temps in 70 degree weather, but when I am I the move usually goes back down to about 35-38C in equal weather conditions, when it's 50f outside I don't think I ever see above 40C
Last edited by cloud9; 02-19-04 at 01:46 AM.
02-19-04, 01:43 AM
#28
First point: I'm not saying one style IC is better than another or anything along those lines. I just thought the fan thing was so far off base it was silly and I had to call it.
Second point: I'll never slander someone for making their own gear. It's how my IC's came about years ago and my turbos and my exhaust blah blah. I made my own, then refined it. No matter what the results, anyone taking the effort and making that leap of faith to try it themselves deserves a lot credit. The only thing I will every really say about that issue is, don't do it thinking it's easy and you're going to save money, nor should you expect to end up with a first rate result the first time around. Every commercial product out there has had many versions and corrections over time or is a knock off of a product that had those corrections.
Once you get it down though it does make working on these cars a lot easier. Problems with parts not fitting right or needing something that doesn't exist won't be a huge roadblock afterwards, instead they'll be a quick adjustment to be made on the grinder or something to be cut on a chopsaw and welded together to work.
I suppose that's enough.
Kevin T. Wyum
Second point: I'll never slander someone for making their own gear. It's how my IC's came about years ago and my turbos and my exhaust blah blah. I made my own, then refined it. No matter what the results, anyone taking the effort and making that leap of faith to try it themselves deserves a lot credit. The only thing I will every really say about that issue is, don't do it thinking it's easy and you're going to save money, nor should you expect to end up with a first rate result the first time around. Every commercial product out there has had many versions and corrections over time or is a knock off of a product that had those corrections.
Once you get it down though it does make working on these cars a lot easier. Problems with parts not fitting right or needing something that doesn't exist won't be a huge roadblock afterwards, instead they'll be a quick adjustment to be made on the grinder or something to be cut on a chopsaw and welded together to work.
I suppose that's enough.
Kevin T. Wyum
02-19-04, 03:25 AM
#29
1JZ powered
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Originally posted by Kevin T. Wyum
You must have had an IC with no duct or something because a SMIC with a decent duct and a good fan will provide much better charge temps at a stop than any FMIC made, I could care less if you're on an island with 50mph speedlimits and no track or not, unless of course you forgot to turn the fan on while running your test : )
You must have had an IC with no duct or something because a SMIC with a decent duct and a good fan will provide much better charge temps at a stop than any FMIC made, I could care less if you're on an island with 50mph speedlimits and no track or not, unless of course you forgot to turn the fan on while running your test : )
Originally posted by Kevin T. Wyum
Most of what's in this thread so far is pretty laughable, who cares what the water temp is on the freeway or what the charge temps are while sitting in a traffic jam? Get the cars on the track and give some real data points or test results from the manufacturer instead of what's posted in this thread. I just knew what was coming when I saw the Informercial style herbal supplement title of the thread : ) Messageboard Mechanics and Web Racers. If people spend over a thousand dollars to get better freeway charge temps they need to be beaten to death.
Most of what's in this thread so far is pretty laughable, who cares what the water temp is on the freeway or what the charge temps are while sitting in a traffic jam? Get the cars on the track and give some real data points or test results from the manufacturer instead of what's posted in this thread. I just knew what was coming when I saw the Informercial style herbal supplement title of the thread : ) Messageboard Mechanics and Web Racers. If people spend over a thousand dollars to get better freeway charge temps they need to be beaten to death.
Since you're a manufacturer of intercoolers, how about some data you have logged and would be willing to share? I'm sure you can provide us with better data than anybody else about your product.
02-19-04, 10:33 AM
#30
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Since the advent of V-Mount....... **** FMIC.
FMIC is more suited for drag events where heat soaking the radiator is not the primary issue.
As a matter of fact I believe that Top Fuels and many professional dragsters don't even have a cooling system in their cars since it runs for a matter of seconds per event.
SMIC has it's place for budget-minded folks and folks that have concerns getting tossed on the "black-list" for improper smog realted mods in states like CA.
FMIC is more suited for drag events where heat soaking the radiator is not the primary issue.
As a matter of fact I believe that Top Fuels and many professional dragsters don't even have a cooling system in their cars since it runs for a matter of seconds per event.
SMIC has it's place for budget-minded folks and folks that have concerns getting tossed on the "black-list" for improper smog realted mods in states like CA.
02-19-04, 10:52 AM
#31
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by Kevin T. Wyum
If people spend over a thousand dollars to get better freeway charge temps they need to be beaten to death.
If people spend over a thousand dollars to get better freeway charge temps they need to be beaten to death.
Guys, the fmic MUST have an effect on radiator temps. Since the air goes through the fmic first and gets warm you now have warmer air you are attempting to cool your radiator with. This problem will be exasperated in constant high boost/high rpm applications: lapping at the track for instance. It doesn't mean the problem can't be overcome, but if you feel all things equal adding a fmic has no impact on potential water temps you are wrong.
02-19-04, 11:32 AM
#32
Rotary Enthusiast
hot air recirc
Originally posted by jspecracer7
I used a puller fan on the SMIC. I tried damn near everything(except for water sprayer) to keep my intake temps cooler, but I was pretty unsuccessful. I did NOT use water injection on my SMIC system and probably would have benefitted if I had installed it before going FMIC.
I used a puller fan on the SMIC. I tried damn near everything(except for water sprayer) to keep my intake temps cooler, but I was pretty unsuccessful. I did NOT use water injection on my SMIC system and probably would have benefitted if I had installed it before going FMIC.
with no smic fan, the rad fans will cause hot air back-flow thru the smic core, preheating it. this I have tested. this is not a problem with fmic, where rad fans can be used to cool the core.
for smic fans to be effective, the fan should be mounted to an offset shroud (just like rad fans), and the rad fans should be relayed to come on at low speed anytime the IC fan is used in traffic/stopped. The IC fan would also come on when rad fans come on, in traffic or stopped.
desired result is only ambient air will be pulled across the IC core, in traffic/stopped. cruising, the fan is not needed, and shroud will not impeded flow as long as fan open area is greater than the minimum IC duct flow area.
02-19-04, 12:37 PM
#33
"smic fans are not very effective at idle/stop&go since the inlet duct will draw in hot engine bay air through the core area not covered by the fan,"
Some air could be pulled through the core in areas not covered by a fan but what you're not mentioning is with a properly sized fan the vast majority of the core will be within the fan shroud. The bulk of the air will be cold pulled from the nose of the car and not through the core. Remember the core presents an obstruction meaning air will more readily flow through the much larger open area of the duct. It's a pressure gradient created by the fan.
"...and, worse yet, reverse flow through the hot radiator and into the IC inlet duct occurs (rad fans off)."
I don't mean to be rude but what planet are you from? You're claiming the air, instead of simply coming in from the large open mouth in the front of the car that's entirely open to atmosphere will instead pass through the engine bay, radiator shroud, through the radiator itself out into the open cavity of the mouth of the car then make a 180 degree turn and return to the engine bay through the IC duct and IC?
To cut this short and simply demonstrate how wacky your ideas are I'll mention a simple backyard mechanics experiment from years ago when I used to smoke. Turn on the IC fan, hold a lit cigarette up to a foot in front of the nose opening of the car. Of course the smokes natural desire is to travel upwards because of the heat but guess what happens? Yeah you guessed it! Instead of travelling up you can literally watch the smoke being sucked into the nose of the car and up into the duct of the IC. That sure doesn't gel with your claims. You don't happen to own a front mount do you?
Kevin T. Wyum
P.S. Ignoring the rest of the post since the first part was so far off.
with no smic fan, the rad fans will cause hot air back-flow thru the smic core, preheating it. this I have tested. this is not a problem with fmic, where rad fans can be used to cool the core.
for smic fans to be effective, the fan should be mounted to an offset shroud (just like rad fans), and the rad fans should be relayed to come on at low speed anytime the IC fan is used in traffic/stopped. The IC fan would also come on when rad fans come on, in traffic or stopped.
desired result is only ambient air will be pulled across the IC core, in traffic/stopped. cruising, the fan is not needed, and shroud will not impeded flow as long as fan open area is greater than the minimum IC duct flow area
Some air could be pulled through the core in areas not covered by a fan but what you're not mentioning is with a properly sized fan the vast majority of the core will be within the fan shroud. The bulk of the air will be cold pulled from the nose of the car and not through the core. Remember the core presents an obstruction meaning air will more readily flow through the much larger open area of the duct. It's a pressure gradient created by the fan.
"...and, worse yet, reverse flow through the hot radiator and into the IC inlet duct occurs (rad fans off)."
I don't mean to be rude but what planet are you from? You're claiming the air, instead of simply coming in from the large open mouth in the front of the car that's entirely open to atmosphere will instead pass through the engine bay, radiator shroud, through the radiator itself out into the open cavity of the mouth of the car then make a 180 degree turn and return to the engine bay through the IC duct and IC?
To cut this short and simply demonstrate how wacky your ideas are I'll mention a simple backyard mechanics experiment from years ago when I used to smoke. Turn on the IC fan, hold a lit cigarette up to a foot in front of the nose opening of the car. Of course the smokes natural desire is to travel upwards because of the heat but guess what happens? Yeah you guessed it! Instead of travelling up you can literally watch the smoke being sucked into the nose of the car and up into the duct of the IC. That sure doesn't gel with your claims. You don't happen to own a front mount do you?
Kevin T. Wyum
P.S. Ignoring the rest of the post since the first part was so far off.
with no smic fan, the rad fans will cause hot air back-flow thru the smic core, preheating it. this I have tested. this is not a problem with fmic, where rad fans can be used to cool the core.
for smic fans to be effective, the fan should be mounted to an offset shroud (just like rad fans), and the rad fans should be relayed to come on at low speed anytime the IC fan is used in traffic/stopped. The IC fan would also come on when rad fans come on, in traffic or stopped.
desired result is only ambient air will be pulled across the IC core, in traffic/stopped. cruising, the fan is not needed, and shroud will not impeded flow as long as fan open area is greater than the minimum IC duct flow area
02-19-04, 01:56 PM
#34
Rotary Enthusiast
"Some air could be pulled through the core in areas not covered by a fan but what you're not mentioning is with a properly sized fan the vast majority of the core will be within the fan shroud. The bulk of the air will be cold pulled from the nose of the car and not through the core. Remember the core presents an obstruction meaning air will more readily flow through the much larger open area of the duct. It's a pressure gradient created by the fan."
I was responding to a sub-thread related to a greddy smic (which I have). A properly sized fan is not possible in that case. Yes, my reply was too general, and not specific to a 12" fan on an ASP med IC type.
"I don't mean to be rude but what planet are you from? You're claiming the air, instead of simply coming in from the large open mouth in the front of the car that's entirely open to atmosphere will instead pass through the engine bay, radiator shroud, through the radiator itself out into the open cavity of the mouth of the car then make a 180 degree turn and return to the engine bay through the IC duct and IC?
To cut this short and simply demonstrate how wacky your ideas are I'll mention a simple backyard mechanics experiment from years ago when I used to smoke. Turn on the IC fan, hold a lit cigarette up to a foot in front of the nose opening of the car. Of course the smokes natural desire is to travel upwards because of the heat but guess what happens? Yeah you guessed it! Instead of travelling up you can literally watch the smoke being sucked into the nose of the car and up into the duct of the IC. That sure doesn't gel with your claims. You don't happen to own a front mount do you?"
SMIC on planet earth here. Repeat the test with one of the smaller smic options, and a much smaller fan, and also move the cigarette in the nose, just in front of the middle of the rad. Both fresh and recirc air enter the IC inlet.
there have been threads about limited success with smic fans, on modest IC upgrades. try a search. If you have a 12", 15amp spal fan on an ASP 11x12" core, then the fan will work with minimal hot recirculation of air. You will need to use the fan to prevent backflow from the rad fans, which I have measured.
I was responding to a sub-thread related to a greddy smic (which I have). A properly sized fan is not possible in that case. Yes, my reply was too general, and not specific to a 12" fan on an ASP med IC type.
"I don't mean to be rude but what planet are you from? You're claiming the air, instead of simply coming in from the large open mouth in the front of the car that's entirely open to atmosphere will instead pass through the engine bay, radiator shroud, through the radiator itself out into the open cavity of the mouth of the car then make a 180 degree turn and return to the engine bay through the IC duct and IC?
To cut this short and simply demonstrate how wacky your ideas are I'll mention a simple backyard mechanics experiment from years ago when I used to smoke. Turn on the IC fan, hold a lit cigarette up to a foot in front of the nose opening of the car. Of course the smokes natural desire is to travel upwards because of the heat but guess what happens? Yeah you guessed it! Instead of travelling up you can literally watch the smoke being sucked into the nose of the car and up into the duct of the IC. That sure doesn't gel with your claims. You don't happen to own a front mount do you?"
SMIC on planet earth here. Repeat the test with one of the smaller smic options, and a much smaller fan, and also move the cigarette in the nose, just in front of the middle of the rad. Both fresh and recirc air enter the IC inlet.
there have been threads about limited success with smic fans, on modest IC upgrades. try a search. If you have a 12", 15amp spal fan on an ASP 11x12" core, then the fan will work with minimal hot recirculation of air. You will need to use the fan to prevent backflow from the rad fans, which I have measured.
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