pianoprodigy

After driving my second FD today (both sequential twins), I am now considering a single turbo Montego Blue. I have not gotten a chance to drive it yet. Is the lag much more substantial? I have not ridden in many turbo-charged cars. My friend has a 2002 Eclipse RS with a T3/4 hybrid turbo which puts down about 250 to the wheels. His lag seems to be somewhat more substantial, and when the power comes, it REALLY comes. Will a T78 turbo be similar to this? I know the lag will be more than the twins right? When the power comes with such a large turbo, will it be a whole heck of a lot all of a sudden? So many questions...

Thanks everyone,

Alan

kwikrx7

If you've never driven a single turbo car, it would be best to do so. A T78 car will have great power potential - atleast 400 rwhp at 14-15 psi and they can run above 20 psi easily. Full boost will come on at about 4700 rpms with a T78 which is a lot more laggy than the stock twins. And yes, the power is sudden which I am not a fan of. It's great for highway races and drag racing but driving around town in a large single turbo FD isn't fun. If the sequential twin FD is modified, it will be a blast to drive. I have upgraded twins running sequentially at 15 psi and make 380 rwhp which is plenty for the street - very fun to drive around town and on mountain roads.

One thing about a T78 FD is that you won't have boost issues like a twin FD. It's a trade-off - better power up top, good reliability, but there IS lag. You might want to try and find a RX6 or T04e single FD since lag will be less. My FD is for sale also

pianoprodigy

KwikRX7 - That was REALLY weird!!!
I was just reading about your car being for sale! I just finished looking at your car's pics before I read your post. Crazy...Yeah, I think it would be amazing to have that kind of power, but I love the smooth build with the twins. I'm gonna try to drive it on Tuesday...

artguy

sequential forever...... 4500rpms is an eternity.


j

pianoprodigy

Any more opinions? Supposedly, when do the stock sequentials begin to spool up and when do you get "full boost." How is this compared to a T78? (Initial spool and full boost) Do certain mods help the spool time? I would think that a lightened flywheel would help you get to the higher RPMs faster, right?

artguy

do a search on UPGRADED TWINS...there are dyno comparisons for the turbo setups you mention as well as all the information you need to know to do it.

a t78 is notoriously one of the laggiest turbos....but it has huge potential up top..huge...

do a search for wargasm (username) he has a great site with all the dyno comparisons you will need to see. you can compare power bands of all different setups there.

I think its something like www.catenet.com/dyno but I cant remember the exact link.

j

rynberg

here's the link to wargasm's dyno page:

http://www.catenet.net/dyno.php

TopSecretUSA: We didn't say that T-78s are undrivable around town but sequential twins are WAY more fun until 4000 rpm. Dyno charts don't lie. The best low-end I've seen on a T-78 (at 15 psi) was 150 ft-lbs of torque at 3000 rpm. I make over 210 at 3000 rpm at 10 psi with a few mods. It's the simple truth that a T-78 doesn't even EQUAL the power of a modded sequential twins car until 4500 rpm.

artguy

word to yer *****

Jason

iTrader: (5)

I have said it a thousand times, lag is overrated.
I have driven in cars with most of the single turbos out there and the T-78 is one of the best.
Yes, its laggier than the stock setup, which means you have to be in the right gear. Once you go single you will never go back to the sequentials.
Sure, a stock twin car may get me out of the hole, but as soon as my turbo hits I pass them like there standing still

Jason

artguy

well of course you say that jason...youve got a t78 dream machine and that must suit your driving style.

i dont care how fast it is from 4500+ i simply cant handle waiting for it to kick in around town.

to each their own...jason is right though...the t78 is proven and proven again...

j

BATMAN

i want jason's Car.. any idea of his address. ? i will borrow his car while he is sleeping

oh hey btw jason.. anyone you can cut me a Deal on a feed front bumper.. ? like 450 - 500? with out the 99 signals? plz

greg schroeder

Here's a link that's probaby been posted here before. It's a dyno comparison of many set ups.
http://www.catenet.net/dyno.php

Here's specifically a few HP comparisons at 15 psi.
T66, T04, stock twins, T78......15 psi

Here's a gob of them at 13 psi.
13 psi comparison

Leprechaun

Jason's right. Once you're moving, the only concern is being in the right gear. And getting wide enough tires so it will hook up. It spools so quick it becomes unoticable, esp with a light flywheel. I've ridden in a TO4 and my car never felt so tame afterwards. And who cares about the first 30' from a stoplight anyways? That's not what these cars are for. hehe. I loved sequential, and I love Non-seq a little more I must say. And a single is eventually where I'd like to go...

PianoP, take a ride in a single before you decide. But I guarantee I already know what your decision will be after the ride.

artguy

oh yes....once your moving....well if i lived in a house with a big race track in the yard Id agree with you. However, I live in the city and if i want to enjoy my car it has to be within the speedlimits as well.

most single turbo cars do not hit enjoyable levels of entertainment until you are speeding.

the whole point of going with upgraded twins was to keep my downlow so that it was fun IN TOWN too....not just fun on the highway or on the track.

j

pianoprodigy

How wide is wide enough? If your running like 500 RWHP you would have to have some beasts back there, right?

artguy

here is a comparison between the m2 twins dyno plot i posted and a few of the t78 charts....the t78 has much more potential up top obviously.

http://www.catenet.net/graph.php?car...1&SUBMIT=GRAPH


here is the same comparison chart with the bnr stage 3s substituted with mine. notice how the bnrs hang with the t78 for a long long time...during normal driving especially

http://www.catenet.net/graph.php?car...1&SUBMIT=GRAPH

until 4500 rpms the upgrades sets have the t78 by as much as 50 horsepower....which around town during normal daily driving means a lot to me. I wouldnt give up those numbers for the world....well unless i turned it into a highway/track car...but then again I dont have that as an option.




j

Boostedtwice

I'm gonna stick with the stock twin. I love the smooth power delivery. But when they give it up i'll be looking at a T78 or i'll go with a upgraded twin setup.

kwikrx7

you have to admit that SPOautos dyno curve just kicks *** - it outperforms most single turbo graphs even when the singles are running more boost. The T78 doesn't pass the BNRs until almost peak power - but when racing, the BNRs are pulling away from the single turbos and that 500-700 rpms of peak power won't be enough to pull back since you'll be shifting right back into the powerband. This would back up Stephen's 125 mph traps that alot of single turbo FDs can't match.

artguy

way to lay down the hammer kwik.

what do you all think?

j

wonder1and

I have had stock twins... high flow pettit twins... and a T04S... what do I rate as being best? T04S... Did I run into some reliability issues... yes... how many motors has my car had in the last 2 years...? 4. Why.... I blame the injectors I bought. I can't substantiate this because I do not have them anymore. If you get the T04S or similar do not forget the octane booster unless you have the car tuned correctly. I suggest a big bank account.

Marshall

yup, area under the curve between shift points. This is why some single cars with 50 more hp are trapping the same -everytime they shift they fall back to under 350 rwhp. This is also why Supras trap so high -their power "curves" are friggin plateaus!

Jason

iTrader: (5)

I wouldnt go by those dyno graphs as a great example of the T-78. Before I would judge I would need to see the A/F ratios for each car. For example, take a look at Car 22. Its midrange HP is alot closer to the BNR's than Car 60 that had the most overall HP. Car 22's HP falls off hard and is probably running rich. If all of the cars were tuned the same you would see the T-78 pulling hard from around 4500RPM up. Also porting of the motor plays a big part.

Jason

kwikrx7

I'd have to agree that tuning is the real key with power in any twin or single car. Heck, there was a guy with stock ports and turbos that pulled off over 400 rwhp at 18 psi non-seq with 350+ rwtq - all tuning. SPOautos car was tuned by Steve Kan which would show his awesome curve. A well tuned T78 FD should outperform any upgraded twin car through the powerband but many of the single FDs and are not tuned as well as they could be.

Fatman0203

For quatermile whats better??? Like stop light racing???
I dont do much highway or track racing here.