Should I consider using a heat shield around the air filter for my single turbo? Anyone have any pictures of their set up?

 

If you search boxed intake filter you can probably find something.

An Apexi intake should fit with the U type cooler. I have both.

 

CF M2 or m2 style aluminum (cx racing) airbox will work as well.
It has a "cold" air bumper source from the side of stock radiator position.

When you make the "S" bend to make up the turbo inlet to airbox outlet height difference, remember that the fewer degrees of bend the better an "S" bend flows.

Also, the longer the straight section in the middle of the "S" the better it flows.

It would be better to have 2x 15deg couplers with a straight pipe between than a beautifully fabricated "S" bend of aluminum pipe made of two 90 deg bends welded together.

2x 45 deg bends welded together for a shallow "S" will flow better than an "S" of 90 deg bends.

The 2x hard 15 deg coupler bends is probably even better flowing despite less flowy looking.

Using a velocity stack to mount the air filter to the turbo inlet pipe really helps flow.

 

Thank you very much! Can I use a velocity stack with a K&N filter and do you know a specific brand that I could search up?

 

I was just thinking about this myself. The velocity stack is an interesting topic. So would you replicate what is in your photos and add the velocity stack to the airbox with the filter over top?

Eric

 

It looks like you have a KnightSports SMIC, so the M2 airbox would certainly work for your system as the others have said (of course you need to modify the back side of the box to accommodate for the single vs twin setup). But another option could be to modify a Knightsports/AutoEXE/MS style intake to work with your single setup. I don't exactly know how easy that would be to do, but I do know that some Aussies have modified AutoEXE intakes to work with single/SMIC setups. Could be something to look into.

 

This right here is the best "looking" option IMO and functional as well. I've seen quite a few Single setups using this as a solution. A good welder would just need to cut the original Filter inlet plate and weld on a new single 3-4" inlet (whatever matches your turbo inlet) and use the proper bends to reach your turbo.

 

single turbo with a smic just looks crazy to me. how well does that actually work?

 

Seems to work well for me so far. Might move to a V Mount later but from what I read and heard it is fine for that Turbo. I have a PFC Master and the air intake temp seems fine except after waiting in the Texas sun on startup... Lots to learn but working fine for now. Welcome any constructive comments!

 

What are your air temps? Specifically during a pull. Cruising on the highway, I expect ambient +~5C or so. During a pull or back to back pulls, no more of an increase of 2-3C with basically immediate cooling post pull. To me, this is ideal behavior. Even sitting in traffic, no more than a 10c increase over ambient with almost immediate cooling to near ambient once moving again.

I'm curious because I think its turblown developing an intake solution for the EFR that would force the use of a smic. Regardless of how well the intake is set up, if the intercooler is a glorified heat sink, it won't really matter. I just don't see how the surface area of any smic is suitable for a "standard" size single turbo. Especially the dual pass where the heat of the second pass is used to "cool" the first pass.

No first hand experience watching temps in various conditions on a smic single turbo so I could be way off base.

 

"Should I consider using a heat shield around the air filter for my single turbo?"

you are asking one of the most important FD engine related questions. there are many reasons to go single turbo and one of the biggest is, if done properly, it is additive to engine health/longevity.

there are also some significant challenges that come w increased airflow.

number one, for me, is increased IAT.

here is the "before" on a recent third gear pull

temp out of the turbo is 158.4 F. temp into the motor is 72 F... 3666 rpm





here's the last data point at 100% TPS. 8002 rpm 100% TPS, 313.2 F out of the turbo and 75 F into the motor.




you are thinking... your IATs are somewhat similar, around 70/80... so why the post?

i have an intercooler booklet written by George Spears/Spearco. George was quite involved w the engineering for the intercooled WW2 fighter planes and later started an intercooler co that served the auto aftermarket. according to George an optimum IC can remove 65% of the uptick in the charge air from the compressor. we don't have optimum ICs. whether V mount of Stock mount, not enough room. remember the rotary needs 30% more air than a piston motor. but let's assume we do have an optimum IC.

let's first determine the non boosted base temp. that is the temperature next to your air filter. i have an average engine bay temp of 125 F but due to the differentiating panel the temp at my filter is 105 F.

313.2 minus 105 = 208.2 uptick. times .65 = 135.3 (heat removal from IC) = 72.9 plus original 105 = 177.9 IAT... but my IAT was 75F... the additional 102.9 reduction was from the 800 cc/min of 100% methanol. i have run 100% methanol AI since 2003.

my G40-1150 turbo is more efficient than yours. ( i won't clog up the thread w the compressor map, go to Garrett if you want the details). i have a very efficient IC and a low low drag system. i made over 650 on that run at 22 psi. if you are around 450+ w your setup you are above 300 F. further, if you are doing more than just a single pull your IC will be heat soaking. i was around 450 F in fifth at the Texas Mile at modest throttle.

notice while the white line (compressor charge air T) significantly rises, the yellow line (IAT) remains flat. this is primarily due to the green line which represents the methanol pressure. all temp data comes from Air thermocouples. accurate within plus or minus 2 degrees F and generating data at 4 cycles per second..

let's assume you are at 300 F. you may have not yet finished some sort of heat reduction mechanism around your air filter. let's assume your base temp is 125 F. (BTW, if your air filter is anywhere near the backside of your IC the base temp is going to be quite different)

so 125 base and 300 out of the compressor.... 300 - 125 = 175 X .65 = 114 removal. 175 - 114 = 61 net uptick. 61 + 125 (base T) = 186 IAT

186 IAT, i bet that's 100 F from what your "fast" acting thermistor is reporting.

this is before adding factors such as IC heat soak, less than optimum ICs.

this is why i think the initial poster is raising a great question. if everyone used an "air" thermocouple our engine bays would look very different.

IAT fixes:

partition air filter and reduce base temp 20 F
efficient IC
efficient turbo
methanol as AI injectant
air thermocouple to tune

 

It's about time someone made a carbon intake box to fit the Greddy V-mount, which had become as ubiquitous a solution as the old M2 stuff was once. Maybe more.

You could leave the backside customizeable for the placement of your particular turbo, but the Turblown/IWG would be a good place to start.

 

not a thing of beauty but it is 125 F on the right side of the partition and 105 F on the left. i used a contour tool so the partition pretty much shows no daylight to the hood underside. the big key is not having the air filter near the IC or radiator backsides, having a large air filter, and picking up air from the space between the radiator and frame rails. the partition jogs over the coolant hose and turns downward towards the air gap. it is alu and has a fiberglass material on both sides. if you look carefully you can see the Mica heat barrier.

 

Do you have a photo of that your setup? Not sure I saw a link. My IAT is too high I believe after focusing on it today. After it warms up and driving around 60 it settles at 120F on pulls it does not change much up or down. Outside temp around 100 here.. stupid hot. When driving slow for a while it gets up to 140 and stays around that. Will look at it more as well.

Thanks a ton for all the information!

 

the entire reason for those temps is because the radiator ran exhaust is being PUMPED into your filter. even something as simple as what mr. coleman posted will help. the goal is to simply separate the intake from the source of heat. you want the turbo to be pulling in air that is not in the engine bay

 

Yes exactly. That is what I am looking for. I am pretty sure my best option will be to have the air coming from the space beside the radiator into an airbox. I have some good ideas now, but yeah after looking at the temps they seem way too high.

I am pretty sure a larger one-level intercooler, probably V Mount, would help a lot as well.

 

^That's essentially what I did - fabricated an airbox that encloses my cone filter, ducting and a plenum that connects the pieces out of sheet aluminum. Using the space between the radiator side and the frame rail to duct cool air in front of the radiator into the air filter. Works well as far as IATs go - I'm seeing IATs that are only about 10*F higher than whatever the ambient temp is at cruise. As you would expect, they'll climb substantially higher than that on a sustained pull under boost, but the quickly drop down when you let off & cruise. My IC setup is a DIY replica of the old M2 "medium" system, which keeps a SMIC configuration, and allows you to retain a OEM full size battery where Mazda put it. I also fabricated dedicated sheet AL ducting that covers the full surface area of the IC, so that helps too. Pictures/details on the setup can be found here on my build thread here: https://www.rx7club.com/build-thread...oject-1149941/ Post #8 covers radiator, IC and IC ducting; post #29 covers the 1st iteration of my cold air box intake fab work, post #35 has the version 2 design, and post #108 has my final version 3 design that I'm still running with.

The only downside to this setup is that air filter maintenance is a PITA - lots of stuff has to get dissembled to get access to remove & clean my filter now, and airflow into the turbo is still restricted somewhat by the ducting (but better than the V1 & V2 iterations), but I think that trade-off is worth the acceptable IAT's I'm seeing.

 

HPP single set-up​​​​​​

 

v mount is the only solution. with the radiator in the stock configuration, you're just fighting to maintain temps. the very hot radiator exhaust air turns the engine bay into a proper oven. even with all the ducting in the world, if there is no airflow, everything WILL get hot. there's nothing you can do about it. really pay attention to how much of your commute in the FD is moving at a stead pace vs not. its better to build for the more frequent condition. other than cost, v mount is the superior configuration of all the configurations for an fd. it wins in all conditions largely due to the radiator exhaust going out and under the car instead of up and into the bay.

 

Having the radiator exhaust under the car isn't great aerodynamically, but it's the best way to keep things cool if you don't have a seriously well-vented hood.

 

My hood is vented so I am thinking that I can have the air come from beside the radiator and maybe duct it to the hood vent so it gets pulled through?



Thoughts?

 

Ducting good.

A duct would effectively serve as a heat shield, while also increasing the effectiveness of the vents.

Add a bit of fiberglass tape like Howard while you are at it to further isolate the intake from heat.

I wouldn't be able to fabricate something that complex, personally.

In your case, a heat shield that isolates the intake from your radiator and intercooler exhaust would probably be more cost effective.

Hood vent gurney flaps would also suck more air out of your engine bay, at the cost of extra drag. They make them specifically for these RE-A-style hoods. They aren't cheap.

Not sure how much that would improve your IATs, though. They would only work while you're moving forward at significant speed.

 

[QUOTE=Howard Coleman;12635546]not a thing of beauty but it is 125 F on the right side of the partition and 105 F on the left. i used a contour tool so the partition pretty much shows no daylight to the hood underside. the big key is not having the air filter near the IC or radiator backsides, having a large air filter, and picking up air from the space between the radiator and frame rails. the partition jogs over the coolant hose and turns downward towards the air gap. it is alu and has a fiberglass material on both sides. if you look carefully you can see the Mica heat barrier.

This looks very functional. I will do this first, maybe out of stainless steel with some heat shield material on it. (We have a huge hobby shop at work with all kinds of machines) Since my hood is vented I will have it go to the hood like yours and hopefully the vents will pull more air through as well.
Thank you Howard and Valkyrie for this idea to help my IAT before I figure out another option like a V Mount.

 

This is what I made today at the hobbyshop at work. Was able to use the laser cutter and many other tools. It is electrostatic sheet metal I believe so I might paint it and also put some heat shielding on.

Any recommendations on what to heat shield with? Fiberglass like Howard did? Also should I paint it?

Sheet metal shaped to fit down to the bottom of the radiator?

 

I would have suggested you started by making a template with cardstock (or really thin cardboard) before working actual metal, since you're probably going to have to redo it a few times to get it just right.

I think any adhesive-backed reflective heat shielding should work fine, but you might not even need it, since stainless steel is a better heat isolator than aluminum.

(Oh, wait, I'm not sure if that's actually stainless.)