Signal Auto Carbon Fiber UIM Cover (Pic Inside)
02-03-04, 12:21 AM
#26
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Yep. It's the metal inside section that would conduct heat and have no place to radiate it too. As I'm sure you know, an entirely carbon fibre surge tank would be beneficial as far as heat reduction goes.
What cracks me up is people saying "hey look it just tacks on top of it" and "it will decrease performance" and people saying "I don't care! It looks phat dude! I want one!"
What cracks me up is people saying "hey look it just tacks on top of it" and "it will decrease performance" and people saying "I don't care! It looks phat dude! I want one!"
02-03-04, 01:27 AM
#27
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Will this thing acts as a blanket? I doubt it. If it really acts like a blanket, that means there is something defying the laws of physics and you just made the biggest discovery!!
Suddeny the laws of heat transfer do not apply to our super slick FD. 
Heat transfer occurs when there is a temp differntial and heat goes from the hotter object to the colder one. If both objects have the same temp, they are at equilibrium. There will not be any heat transfer.
Your intake manifold temp should be always equal or less than the under hood temp and that means if this thing is really great at being a heat barrier, it will actually keep the manifold cooler. On top of that, we have something called "intercooler" on our car. If your intake manifold temp is higher than the underhood temp, maybe you have a "inter-heater" instead of "inter-cooler".
But come to think of it, will this thin layer of composite being a great heat barrier? I doubt it.
So the conclusion is that this thing will not affect the performance of the car. It's just cool to look at if you like the style.
Chuck Huang
Suddeny the laws of heat transfer do not apply to our super slick FD. Heat transfer occurs when there is a temp differntial and heat goes from the hotter object to the colder one. If both objects have the same temp, they are at equilibrium. There will not be any heat transfer. Your intake manifold temp should be always equal or less than the under hood temp and that means if this thing is really great at being a heat barrier, it will actually keep the manifold cooler. On top of that, we have something called "intercooler" on our car. If your intake manifold temp is higher than the underhood temp, maybe you have a "inter-heater" instead of "inter-cooler".
But come to think of it, will this thin layer of composite being a great heat barrier? I doubt it.
So the conclusion is that this thing will not affect the performance of the car. It's just cool to look at if you like the style.
Chuck Huang
02-03-04, 01:36 AM
#28
Rotary Freak
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just wanted to chime in. in regards to the heat created in the engine bay, wouldnt the CF resin start to yellow after a while? the CF resin on my JIC strut bar yellowed after a few months, now it looks like ****.
02-03-04, 02:17 AM
#29
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Will this thing acts as a blanket? I doubt it. If it really acts like a blanket, that means there is something defying the laws of physics and you just made the biggest discovery!! Suddeny the laws of heat transfer do not apply to our super slick FD.
Something surrounded by a material with low heat conduction will blanket whatever it surrounds.
That's how a blanket works.
Your intake manifold temp should be always equal or less than the under hood temp and that means if this thing is really great at being a heat barrier, it will actually keep the manifold cooler.
The manifold is directly affixed to the LIM which is directly affixed to the block. Both manifolds are made of ALUMINUM - a high heat conductive material. The heat will flow upwards from the block to both manifolds - but the UIM will have no ability to dissipate heat - functioning as a heat sink. Not a good thing for incoming air, AT ALL.
02-03-04, 02:19 AM
#30
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It's just cool to look at if you like the style.
02-03-04, 02:45 AM
#32
Originally posted by rotaryextreme
Will this thing acts as a blanket? I doubt it. If it really acts like a blanket, that means there is something defying the laws of physics and you just made the biggest discovery!! Suddeny the laws of heat transfer do not apply to our super slick FD. Heat transfer occurs when there is a temp differntial and heat goes from the hotter object to the colder one. If both objects have the same temp, they are at equilibrium. There will not be any heat transfer.
Your intake manifold temp should be always equal or less than the under hood temp and that means if this thing is really great at being a heat barrier, it will actually keep the manifold cooler. On top of that, we have something called "intercooler" on our car. If your intake manifold temp is higher than the underhood temp, maybe you have a "inter-heater" instead of "inter-cooler".
But come to think of it, will this thin layer of composite being a great heat barrier? I doubt it.
So the conclusion is that this thing will not affect the performance of the car. It's just cool to look at if you like the style.
Chuck Huang
Will this thing acts as a blanket? I doubt it. If it really acts like a blanket, that means there is something defying the laws of physics and you just made the biggest discovery!!
Suddeny the laws of heat transfer do not apply to our super slick FD. Heat transfer occurs when there is a temp differntial and heat goes from the hotter object to the colder one. If both objects have the same temp, they are at equilibrium. There will not be any heat transfer. Your intake manifold temp should be always equal or less than the under hood temp and that means if this thing is really great at being a heat barrier, it will actually keep the manifold cooler. On top of that, we have something called "intercooler" on our car. If your intake manifold temp is higher than the underhood temp, maybe you have a "inter-heater" instead of "inter-cooler".
But come to think of it, will this thin layer of composite being a great heat barrier? I doubt it.
So the conclusion is that this thing will not affect the performance of the car. It's just cool to look at if you like the style.
Chuck Huang
Sorry but I think they gave you the wrong "laws of physics" book, although I really wanted to make that big discovery.
Kevin T. Wyum
P.S. Does this mean I was right about the intercooler stuff now? : P
02-03-04, 03:06 AM
#33
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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It does not matter what you call it, it's a heat barrier. and laws of heat transfer apply. If the intake manifold is colder than the surrounding, heat will goes in, not comes. out. And yes, you can call it a blanket, a blanket to keep the manifold cold, not warm. You are assuming the intake manifold temp is hotter but it's just not the case.
You are right, the manifold is attached to the engine but it will not be as hot as the under hood temp which is heated up by exhaust components. If it's as hot, your engine already overheated.
Our air temp sensor actually measures the intake manifold temp more than the real air temp. Do you have a PFC? Monitor the intake temp and see how hot your manifold get. Put another temp probe to monitor the air temp around the manifold. You will find out the intake manifold temp is always cooler. I already did the test.
We are talking about the heat transfer between the manifold and the surrounding. If you talk about the LIM to UIM heat transfer, you are pretty much counting this factor twice. The UIM to LIM heat transfer is always there regardless of the existence of the cover. The heat transfer will not be more because of the cover. But if you shield off the manifold from the hotter surrounding air, you are keeping the manifold cooler, assuming the shield is a good one.
Chuck Huang
You are right, the manifold is attached to the engine but it will not be as hot as the under hood temp which is heated up by exhaust components. If it's as hot, your engine already overheated.
Our air temp sensor actually measures the intake manifold temp more than the real air temp. Do you have a PFC? Monitor the intake temp and see how hot your manifold get. Put another temp probe to monitor the air temp around the manifold. You will find out the intake manifold temp is always cooler. I already did the test.
We are talking about the heat transfer between the manifold and the surrounding. If you talk about the LIM to UIM heat transfer, you are pretty much counting this factor twice. The UIM to LIM heat transfer is always there regardless of the existence of the cover. The heat transfer will not be more because of the cover. But if you shield off the manifold from the hotter surrounding air, you are keeping the manifold cooler, assuming the shield is a good one.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by clayne
Carbon fibre has very low heat conductive properties.
Something surrounded by a material with low heat conduction will blanket whatever it surrounds.
That's how a blanket works.
No way!
The manifold is directly affixed to the LIM which is directly affixed to the block. Both manifolds are made of ALUMINUM - a high heat conductive material. The heat will flow upwards from the block to both manifolds - but the UIM will have no ability to dissipate heat - functioning as a heat sink. Not a good thing for incoming air, AT ALL.
Carbon fibre has very low heat conductive properties.
Something surrounded by a material with low heat conduction will blanket whatever it surrounds.
That's how a blanket works.
No way!
The manifold is directly affixed to the LIM which is directly affixed to the block. Both manifolds are made of ALUMINUM - a high heat conductive material. The heat will flow upwards from the block to both manifolds - but the UIM will have no ability to dissipate heat - functioning as a heat sink. Not a good thing for incoming air, AT ALL.
02-03-04, 03:08 AM
#34
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
Sorry, the book is right and you never answer my questions on that vmount IC thread. Let's go back there and have some talks? I am still waiting for you to explain to me how a 2"x10" duct will supply more air than a totally exposed intercooler such as FMIC and VMIC and how a bigger mouth of aftermarket bumper will help getting more air into that 2"X10" duct? And how did you determine a SMIC duct with larger duct opening will not increase the efficiency? Please educate me. I am very willing to learn. I keep an open mind.
Chuck Huang
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by Kevin T. Wyum
Sorry but I think they gave you the wrong "laws of physics" book, although I really wanted to make that big discovery.
Kevin T. Wyum
P.S. Does this mean I was right about the intercooler stuff now? : P
Sorry but I think they gave you the wrong "laws of physics" book, although I really wanted to make that big discovery.
Kevin T. Wyum
P.S. Does this mean I was right about the intercooler stuff now? : P
Last edited by rotaryextreme; 02-03-04 at 03:31 AM.
02-03-04, 03:10 AM
#35
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
Yup, if your labor is free. FEED does not work for free. If you can do it yourself, you should. I know you can cuz I saw your headlight kit.
Chuck Huang
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by clayne
Might as well just order some CF pre-peg from the countless online suppliers and blanket the UIM with it. Then add your own gloss. Not in a thousand years close to 250$ of material costs.
Might as well just order some CF pre-peg from the countless online suppliers and blanket the UIM with it. Then add your own gloss. Not in a thousand years close to 250$ of material costs.
02-03-04, 03:37 AM
#36
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I have one on my FD too seen here. They are selling quite frequetly lately, actually a couple were here the other day.
Yeah like DOM said, its FEED.
Yes thats our project FD
Yeah like DOM said, its FEED.
Yes thats our project FD
02-03-04, 03:41 AM
#37
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Originally posted by jspecracer7
:yawn: With $250, you could buy some engine parts
:yawn: With $250, you could buy some engine parts
02-03-04, 05:51 AM
#38
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Originally posted by rotaryextreme
[B]
Our air temp sensor actually measures the intake manifold temp more than the real air temp. Do you have a PFC? Monitor the intake temp and see how hot your manifold get. Put another temp probe to monitor the air temp around the manifold. You will find out the intake manifold temp is always cooler. I already did the test.
[B]
Our air temp sensor actually measures the intake manifold temp more than the real air temp. Do you have a PFC? Monitor the intake temp and see how hot your manifold get. Put another temp probe to monitor the air temp around the manifold. You will find out the intake manifold temp is always cooler. I already did the test.
Originally posted by rotaryextreme
We are talking about the heat transfer between the manifold and the surrounding. If you talk about the LIM to UIM heat transfer, you are pretty much counting this factor twice. The UIM to LIM heat transfer is always there regardless of the existence of the cover. The heat transfer will not be more because of the cover. But if you shield off the manifold from the hotter surrounding air, you are keeping the manifold cooler, assuming the shield is a good one.
Chuck Huang
We are talking about the heat transfer between the manifold and the surrounding. If you talk about the LIM to UIM heat transfer, you are pretty much counting this factor twice. The UIM to LIM heat transfer is always there regardless of the existence of the cover. The heat transfer will not be more because of the cover. But if you shield off the manifold from the hotter surrounding air, you are keeping the manifold cooler, assuming the shield is a good one.
Chuck Huang
While the temperature of the UIM may hit an average high point on stock UIM configurations, there is also no CF insulator on the stock UIM. Denying the UIM the ability to *dissipate* heat could very much so raise the average heat content the UIM carries. In fact, the only reason the UIM is not as hot as the LIM or the housings is because it has the abillity to dissipate heat more readily - whereas the other manifolds/housings do not.
The same theory can be applied to thermal wrapping of exhaust components. The internal temperatures of the exhaust stay hotter and more heat is contained within the exhaust (a good thing) but at the expense of the piping itself.
The only way to get an effective CF heat shield for the UIM is to construct the surge tank and runners entirely of CF itself. This prevents heat conduction from the LIM to the UIM and also prevents heat conduction from the engine bay to the UIM.
02-03-04, 05:53 AM
#39
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Originally posted by rotaryextreme
Yup, if your labor is free. FEED does not work for free. If you can do it yourself, you should. I know you can cuz I saw your headlight kit.
Chuck Huang
Yup, if your labor is free. FEED does not work for free. If you can do it yourself, you should. I know you can cuz I saw your headlight kit.
Chuck Huang
02-03-04, 06:13 AM
#40
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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We are talking about the same thing but just in different scenario. You are thinking that the manifold is hotter than the surrounding but it's actually colder.
My scenario is this. If you wrap a glass or ice water with a blanket, it will stay cold longer. As if if you wrap a glass of hot water with a blanket, it will say warm longer. The barrier, in this case, the manifold cover just cuts off the heat transfer. So if the manifold is hotter than the surrounding, putting a cover on it will keep it warm. If the manifold is colder than the surrouding, putting a cover on it will keep it cold.
So my saying and your saying do not contradict. The only thing is the temperature of the manifold in comparsion to the surrounding that we don't agree on.
Actually the UIM does not have that much of surface area to dissapate heat and even if it does, the surrounding has to be in a lower temp than it is. Heat does not go from a colder object to a hotter object. If you put a cover on a colder object, you shield it from heat. Not the other way around.
If you make the manifold all in carbon fiber, it's a different kind of scenario. There isn't any shielding effect. It's the heat capacity of the material that matters. First of all, it's light weight so there isn't much mass to hold heat. 2nd, the heat capacity of CF should be alot less than aluminum.
BTW, this is pretty confusing and I can almost confuse myself since it's really late. Just think of the engine as a big heat generator. Heat does not just disappear. It has to go somewhere. In this case, it will go to the exhaust, the water which is carried out by the radiator, , the oil which is carried out by the oil cooler, the air convection, air flow conduction, etc. Right now I don't care where they go. Time to go to sleep. LOL
Chuck Huang
My scenario is this. If you wrap a glass or ice water with a blanket, it will stay cold longer. As if if you wrap a glass of hot water with a blanket, it will say warm longer. The barrier, in this case, the manifold cover just cuts off the heat transfer. So if the manifold is hotter than the surrounding, putting a cover on it will keep it warm. If the manifold is colder than the surrouding, putting a cover on it will keep it cold.
So my saying and your saying do not contradict. The only thing is the temperature of the manifold in comparsion to the surrounding that we don't agree on.
Actually the UIM does not have that much of surface area to dissapate heat and even if it does, the surrounding has to be in a lower temp than it is. Heat does not go from a colder object to a hotter object. If you put a cover on a colder object, you shield it from heat. Not the other way around.
If you make the manifold all in carbon fiber, it's a different kind of scenario. There isn't any shielding effect. It's the heat capacity of the material that matters. First of all, it's light weight so there isn't much mass to hold heat. 2nd, the heat capacity of CF should be alot less than aluminum.
BTW, this is pretty confusing and I can almost confuse myself since it's really late. Just think of the engine as a big heat generator. Heat does not just disappear. It has to go somewhere. In this case, it will go to the exhaust, the water which is carried out by the radiator, , the oil which is carried out by the oil cooler, the air convection, air flow conduction, etc. Right now I don't care where they go. Time to go to sleep. LOL
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by clayne
I'm well aware of these effects, have a PFC, and have already relocated my IAT to the IC outlet tank just because of this.
Chuck I don't get it. If you sit in a cold room and wear 2 layers of clothing and a blanket, you will stay warm. If your body temperature rises, you will become much warmer. If I pull the blanket off of your body, you will immediately start to feel much colder.
While the temperature of the UIM may hit an average high point on stock UIM configurations, there is also no CF insulator on the stock UIM. Denying the UIM the ability to *dissipate* heat could very much so raise the average heat content the UIM carries. In fact, the only reason the UIM is not as hot as the LIM or the housings is because it has the abillity to dissipate heat more readily - whereas the other manifolds/housings do not.
The same theory can be applied to thermal wrapping of exhaust components. The internal temperatures of the exhaust stay hotter and more heat is contained within the exhaust (a good thing) but at the expense of the piping itself.
The only way to get an effective CF heat shield for the UIM is to construct the surge tank and runners entirely of CF itself. This prevents heat conduction from the LIM to the UIM and also prevents heat conduction from the engine bay to the UIM.
I'm well aware of these effects, have a PFC, and have already relocated my IAT to the IC outlet tank just because of this.
Chuck I don't get it. If you sit in a cold room and wear 2 layers of clothing and a blanket, you will stay warm. If your body temperature rises, you will become much warmer. If I pull the blanket off of your body, you will immediately start to feel much colder.
While the temperature of the UIM may hit an average high point on stock UIM configurations, there is also no CF insulator on the stock UIM. Denying the UIM the ability to *dissipate* heat could very much so raise the average heat content the UIM carries. In fact, the only reason the UIM is not as hot as the LIM or the housings is because it has the abillity to dissipate heat more readily - whereas the other manifolds/housings do not.
The same theory can be applied to thermal wrapping of exhaust components. The internal temperatures of the exhaust stay hotter and more heat is contained within the exhaust (a good thing) but at the expense of the piping itself.
The only way to get an effective CF heat shield for the UIM is to construct the surge tank and runners entirely of CF itself. This prevents heat conduction from the LIM to the UIM and also prevents heat conduction from the engine bay to the UIM.
02-03-04, 08:37 AM
#42
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Originally posted by FourtyOunce
just wanted to chime in. in regards to the heat created in the engine bay, wouldnt the CF resin start to yellow after a while? the CF resin on my JIC strut bar yellowed after a few months, now it looks like ****.
just wanted to chime in. in regards to the heat created in the engine bay, wouldnt the CF resin start to yellow after a while? the CF resin on my JIC strut bar yellowed after a few months, now it looks like ****.
02-03-04, 09:45 AM
#43
Full Member
In that first pic, how do you get the engine bay soo chrome ? (i know that strut brace comes like that)
do you get it dipped ? nickel plated ? ..............
Thanks
shaq
do you get it dipped ? nickel plated ? ..............
Thanks
shaq
02-03-04, 10:15 AM
#46
Glug Glug Glug Burp
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It looks ok.. But like many things, it just looks stuck on.. 
Not ragging anyone who has one though... Even if I did like it more than I do, I sure couldn't afford it.
Not ragging anyone who has one though... Even if I did like it more than I do, I sure couldn't afford it.
