She's a keeper – how many of you are in it for the long run?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Fritz what do you mean by cup car, A Porsche? Why do you say a GTS is way down? Too much torque and lack of control, no ABS etc?
I've only road raced once, did a weekend at Sebring with an instructor friend and started off learning on my commemorative edition Viper with 6000 miles while it was still under factory warranty.
I was sick to my stomach the entire first day thinking of what would happen if I wrecked it. The second day I calmed down and had fun but it was too much stress in that kind of car.
I've only road raced once, did a weekend at Sebring with an instructor friend and started off learning on my commemorative edition Viper with 6000 miles while it was still under factory warranty.
I was sick to my stomach the entire first day thinking of what would happen if I wrecked it. The second day I calmed down and had fun but it was too much stress in that kind of car.
P cars/911s in particular have a really special vibe when setup correctly that's truly crazy fun. All that weight and tire out back is just intoxicating when it comes to sliding it around and also getting on the power/out of the corner is super cool because of all the grip those fat tires and that weight over of them allows.
The same thing can be said about the mid engine cayman just hard to beat that vibe. The FD is amazing because of it's weight and neutral handling and because of the location of the engine (low and behind the front axle) the steering is close to a mid engine car vibe.
The viper is a big raw beast and it too has it's merits but IMO can't begin to compare with most any high powered light weight cars in terms of driving feel/fun. Corvette has the same problem but to a lesser degree. Recently I've instructed 2 different students in ZR1s and one of those two occasions and the car is an absolutely ANIMAL but NUMB compared to an FD.
It's impossible to make a 3600 pound car feel like 2600 pound car. Or the faster the car reacts/takes a set the more fun it is to drive.
P cars/911s in particular have a really special vibe when setup correctly that's truly crazy fun. All that weight and tire out back is just intoxicating when it comes to sliding it around and also getting on the power/out of the corner is super cool because of all the grip those fat tires and that weight over of them allows.
The same thing can be said about the mid engine cayman just hard to beat that vibe. The FD is amazing because of it's weight and neutral handling and because of the location of the engine (low and behind the front axle) the steering is close to a mid engine car vibe.
The viper is a big raw beast and it too has it's merits but IMO can't begin to compare with most any high powered light weight cars in terms of driving feel/fun. Corvette has the same problem but to a lesser degree. Recently I've instructed 2 different students in ZR1s and one of those two occasions and the car is an absolutely ANIMAL but NUMB compared to an FD.
P cars/911s in particular have a really special vibe when setup correctly that's truly crazy fun. All that weight and tire out back is just intoxicating when it comes to sliding it around and also getting on the power/out of the corner is super cool because of all the grip those fat tires and that weight over of them allows.
The same thing can be said about the mid engine cayman just hard to beat that vibe. The FD is amazing because of it's weight and neutral handling and because of the location of the engine (low and behind the front axle) the steering is close to a mid engine car vibe.
The viper is a big raw beast and it too has it's merits but IMO can't begin to compare with most any high powered light weight cars in terms of driving feel/fun. Corvette has the same problem but to a lesser degree. Recently I've instructed 2 different students in ZR1s and one of those two occasions and the car is an absolutely ANIMAL but NUMB compared to an FD.
Nothing is like a turbo car, the sounds, the anticipation, the push back. I'd rather have a stock turbo car than a high hp NA or even a supercharged car, doesn't do the trick for me compared to a turbo setup.
Recovering Miataholic
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 50
From: Fountain Valley, CA
She's a keeper – how many of you are in it for the long run?
I would like to think that I'll always have this car until the oil/gas companies go out of business. When that happens, I'll be out of a job flying airplanes.
Hey Fritz Flynn! Have you ever driven a Honda S2000? Besides the convertible soft top and terrible Honda/Vtec disco boy following, why doesn't this vehicle make your list of fun to race/drive?
Hey Fritz Flynn! Have you ever driven a Honda S2000? Besides the convertible soft top and terrible Honda/Vtec disco boy following, why doesn't this vehicle make your list of fun to race/drive?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
I would like to think that I'll always have this car until the oil/gas companies go out of business. When that happens, I'll be out of a job flying airplanes.
Hey Fritz Flynn! Have you ever driven a Honda S2000? Besides the convertible soft top and terrible Honda/Vtec disco boy following, why doesn't this vehicle make your list of fun to race/drive?
Hey Fritz Flynn! Have you ever driven a Honda S2000? Besides the convertible soft top and terrible Honda/Vtec disco boy following, why doesn't this vehicle make your list of fun to race/drive?
Owned one for a few months (sold and bought another FD LOL)
One has 100 more HP (when barely modded) and is more fun to drive. Some would argue this but to me it's not even a close race.
The GT3 drives a lot like an S2K because it's not turbo charged and the power doesn't come on until late in the RPM range. However again night and day compared to the low powered S2k not to mention the weird engine placement combined with staggered wheel setup etc... that give the GT3 a very special feel. Light front end (steering is badass) or FD like but even more feeling and it's completely driven from the back end which is how I like to drive.
FD has great steering, you drive off the back end or you steer the car with the back end similar to a 911, cart feel (sitting low and near the back wheels) AND IT HAS A TURBO so you get all the fun that provides as well. REALLY hard to beat a nicely setup FD track car for overall VIBE!
S2K wouldn't be in the same ball park as either a GT3 or FD. Sure you could turbo charge the s2k etc... and eventually have a car that's really similar to the FD only NOT because it doesn't have a rotary so the power delivery would never be as smooth. Again a turbo charged rotary FD is a BADASS EFFING CAR for soooo many reasons.
From what I've learned over the years, the most reliable cars are the ones that are driven often, and consistently. The one's that are taken out once a month or every other week almost always have issues. This rule of thumb goes for every vehicle. Let a car sit without properly preparing it for storage and literally every seal will get brittle and wear out prematurely. My .02 cents.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 413
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Fritz... Is the suspension geometry of the FD that much better than the C5 Corvette? The space frame looks more rigid than an FD. I don't know the C5 A-arm geometry at all. Still, a car that's 6 inches lower, 5 inches wider and 1 inch longer that weighs 2300-2400 pounds all in suggests it should be faster than an FD. Hmmm. Well. Wouldn't do the GTM if its not as good as the FD. But, I did like thinking about motor swaps. The rotary and I found some neat used F430 V-8's complete on eBay for around $15,000. A 500 hp flat plane cranked Ferrari motor would push the car pretty good and sound great.
However the car above beating up on slowly driven street cars isn't exactly flying
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 613
Likes: 44
From: Wolnzach Germany
Okay... I go apeshit over lightweight cars like this. I loved the Utlima's and RCR's, but get claustrophobic when I can't open the windows. Also, FF's strategty of designing a car that got most of its non-chassis parts from a solid donor platform, like the Corvette, really is a good idea. They design the space frame so it is perfect for the vette suspension and engine mounts. Much less custom than an RCR or Ultima and it results in all these cars being almost identical other than a few small cosmetic details. Its like stripping everything off a new vette and replacing it with something that weighs about a third of the weight of that stuff on a new vette. You get a vette weighing 1000 pounds less with a much lower center of gravity. Supposedly, the only car that matches its cornering G's is the Enzo, for what that's worth. And you're right about the passing of slower cars not meaning much. I only posted that, because there are so few good vids out there on it. There is a pehnomenal German Motorvision review of the car, but I don;t speak German, so all I can tell is that the guy loves it. This is maybe at Nurburgring? Somebody who speaks German should tell is what this guy is saying... Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyPIHcRSrY
I go apeshit over lightweight cars like this. I loved the Utlima's and RCR's, but get claustrophobic when I can't open the windows. Also, FF's strategty of designing a car that got most of its non-chassis parts from a solid donor platform, like the Corvette, really is a good idea. They design the space frame so it is perfect for the vette suspension and engine mounts. Much less custom than an RCR or Ultima and it results in all these cars being almost identical other than a few small cosmetic details. Its like stripping everything off a new vette and replacing it with something that weighs about a third of the weight of that stuff on a new vette. You get a vette weighing 1000 pounds less with a much lower center of gravity. Supposedly, the only car that matches its cornering G's is the Enzo, for what that's worth. And you're right about the passing of slower cars not meaning much. I only posted that, because there are so few good vids out there on it. There is a pehnomenal German Motorvision review of the car, but I don;t speak German, so all I can tell is that the guy loves it. This is maybe at Nurburgring? Somebody who speaks German should tell is what this guy is saying... Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoyPIHcRSrY. He speaks about it and also shows that he has to steer with one hand quite a lot due to the too big steering wheel movement . He calls is a "Eselige lenkungs uebersetzung " which translates roughly as "The ratio of the steering is like a donkey". Otherwhise the car can be used with 2 fuels " gas and petrol . Otherwhise he talks a bit about how cramped he has to sit in the car but never really moans about it . Hope this answers most of your questions
Thread Starter
Rotary Freak
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,560
Likes: 256
From: Toronto
Thanks for the translation. In the end, I'd still prefer to work on an FD, even if it has a smaller performance envelope. I also wonder if the C7 Z06 has superseded this kind of car (philosophical debate ensues). If you like to strip cars down for the track, the GTM will save you a lot of work and give you a better car, probably.
Here's a bit of insanity (a bit sales-pitchy, but still fun):
Here's a bit of insanity (a bit sales-pitchy, but still fun):
I won't let go
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,871
Likes: 23
From: Chi -> Maidstone
Its been 12 years and 10's of Thousands and I cant say I ever plan on parting with my FD.....my 15 year old has dibs on it the day I die and says he wont part with it either, he wants to get his own so we can cruise together one day.
I'd say I'm in it for the long run, I've had my FD over 15 years!
And, nope, #1 I haven't added it up!
And, #2 - it is a great hobby!
Cars to drive just aren't an investment, though it hasn't gone down in value (reference rule #1).
Keeps getting better and better!
And, nope, #1 I haven't added it up!
And, #2 - it is a great hobby!
Cars to drive just aren't an investment, though it hasn't gone down in value (reference rule #1).
Keeps getting better and better!
Ive spent many years dreaming of owning an FD. It has been my favorite since I first saw it in Gran Turismo. Just this past october I finally have my dream and dont plan on it ever leaving my sde. Thats what the daily is for. To switch in and out with the joneses lol.
Had mine 12 years now and in that time i've had 3 beautiful daughters. Who says the impractical car needs to be sold as soon as children arrive eh? My FD is a very early 1992 on a J plate and we've had a lot of fun together. Here to stay forever and ever.
