Serious Problem After Race
 

Went up to drag races, in a failed attempt to spank brother-in-law in his FC, i did some damage. I though i had boost under control using power FC with only base map. But it was fairly cool out and when i went hard down the track I boosted over 15 pounds and over reved to 8300 in third gear. As soon as I turned to come back car will not boost over .5 and boost gauge needle is seriously shaky, engine shakes with very rough idle, acceleration is poor like timing is out. I hear a pinging sound and heat light flashes when trying to boost. On the up side, did not see any smoke nor does car smoke now. Not losing any oil. No oil in coolant and no coolant in oil. It starts fine, can drive at any RPM as long as I push it up very easy. Feels like limp mode so i have tried to reset five times but still same. Heat light can indicate knock sensor on JDM cars but reading on PFC knock does not go over 30-40.

Other info:
Original Engine with 117000 km
Stock Twins Sequential
HKS intake
Power FC base map
91 octane fuel with octane boost
Down Pipe mid pipe 3" cat back
stock intercooler
stock fuel system

Any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.

Sounds like a blown motor or your map sensor popped off.

Check your ic piping for cracks/splits

Stock twins? 117km on the stock motor.....so... 72700 miles.. Not excessively high..but That just sounds like a classic boost spike over-rev. My guess after reading the symptoms would be a blown apex seal in one of the housings.. with prob some serious housing damage. But when was the last time you changed your plugs and what plugs are you running?

What to do?..
pull the plugs and check your compression

Motor is gone. You most likely did not have enough fuel and/or octane to support the boost. I don't trust octane boosters, either (unless you're mixing race gas). 93 is MINIMUM octane rating for these engines. Stock IC is also worthless above 12 psi.

Unfortunately, we only have 91 octane at the pump in CA. :(

+1

Post #4 FTW. :icon_tup: When that happened to me (same EXACT symptoms) I had split 2 apex seals out of the rear housing. :( Do a compression test, and/or pull your fuel pump relay and crank the motor with the front 2 plugs out. Listen for the even pulsing/compression in that housing. You should hear nice, even compression strokes.

Then, replace the front 2 plugs and repeat the procedure for the rear housing...My guess is that you will hear uneven pulsing in one of your rotor housings, which indicates a compression (blown apex seal) problem. :( Good luck man!

Thanks alot guys i will check compression tonight. plugs were new 3k ago. i was thinking engine too but its running strong and not blowing any smoke, just wont boost properly. Is it possible to blow out the map sensor?

It's definitely possible to blow the line off of your MAP sensor, which would cause your turbo to not boost properly, and also cause a vacuum leak.

Based on this ^^ your engine isn't running strong, it sounds blown to me. Bad news :(. Get a compression check to be sure.

^^ This! :nod:

Even with a chipped seal, the engine can still produce decent power at higher rpm, it just won't idle, and sounds sick (i.e. as in, "not good"). It's heartbreaking, and most of us have been there. The temptation is to keep cranking that boost up and push it a little bit more every time, but sooner or later it bites you. Fortunately, there are several good engine builders available who can be contacted through this forum, just be sure you upgrade everything next time so you can handle 15 psi.

Are you running the base or the base mod map on the PFC?

Neither are tuned for 'over 15psi' to the best of my knowledge. I would not go over 13psi on the base mod map and I would not run the base map at all because it has ignition timing that can blow engines.

the base map of the power fc can blow up your engine? For sure? Really need to know that, planning to install a pfc in my s8.
sry for offtopic and gl mustangeater!

Shaky vacuum reading is all you need to see to know it is time for a rebuild. Better luck next time. :)

Yes, the base map is really safe for 10 psi or less. Push it beyone that with stock apex seals or any of the other "breakable" seals(they are all breakable but hopefully you get what I am referring to) and it doesnt take long to end up with a blown engine.

Installing a stand a lone ecu can be one of the best or worst decisions you ever make. It all depends if you feel like spending the time and effort to get it tuned correctly.:nod:

If he had the right injectors and a tune he would have had everything to handle it this time.

On a side note I had a customer daily drive his fd for almost 2 months with 1 chipped apex seals until I had time to fit him in.

Damn!!!
 

Doesn't sound good to me Rich,You shouldn't try to catch the big boys on the strip.We'll check the compression tommorow.Chad

Drag racing a beautiful car like an FD is like taking a sweet handling sport bike - designed for the road course or mountain roads - and throwing an extended swingarm and drag slicks on it. Why? Get a 69 Camaro with a big block and TH400 trans if you need to get that out of your system. I'll never understand the drag racing crowd the same way I don't understand the NASCAR crowd, both became mindless to me past the age of about 19. Get away from the noise and the beer swigging rednecks and get in touch with a winding road. Free your soul...

..... or you can um, do both :lol:

Another one of your classic useless posts. Plenty of fds owners give there "drag" fds dual duty on both the strip and road coarse. If it still has the IRS I dont see what in the world you are yapping about, however, I feel that way after reading 99% of your posts.:scratch:

I'd have to agree with djseven. I, as well, drag race AND autocross my FD. There's nothing "redneck" or juvenile about it. If you feel that way then you are hanging around the wrong group of drag racers, and/or have had some bad experiences in the past. Simple as that.

thanks, i am not planning to raise boost until i have the setup that can handle it. Just wanted to know if the basemap of the pfc is safe for a stock car.

You're right, thank God you posted that! I'm going to totally change the direction of my build now, after such an enlightening post. :)

Do I care what you think? Was that post addressed to YOU? 99% of the world doesn't get alot of things, that's why "broad is the way that leads to destruction". It's a world of many fools.

Touche ;)

The base map of the PFC will not blow your engine if you operate within it's limitations. The big one is 10psi of boost on stock twins and fuel system.

It's up to you to make sure your car does not boost more than the tune and fuel system support. Depending on the mods, that could mean boost controller, ported wastegate, etc.

David

Yeah, and you’re the one that’s got it all figured out. Get off your high horse. :rolleyes:

You may have been able to lower the boost by adjusting the settings under the Boost Control screen of the Commander. but with a full catless 3 inch exhaust you may be overwhelming the wastegate anyway.

I've drag raced, autocrossed, twisty "roaded", open track raced, drifted, car show exposed, and daily driven my FD... I love all of it!

BTW, I have a compression tester that I loan out - pm for info

Original engine???? Sound like the original 3 piece apex seals went bye bye!!!

since all we have in cali is 91 octane what do u guys recommend we do lol.

Water/Meth kits can be had for $350.00 on ebay(I like the AEM setups) with everything needed to install. Takes about 4-6 hours to install a kit depending how anal you are at hiding the wires. Your problems will be solved for the most part.

You must have a race gas supplier SOMEWHERE near you, right? :P Also, you can use octane booster as well. :icon_tup: Dave always tells me you can never put in too much! :lol:

Luckily for me I have access to 110 for $8/gal or 115 for $11/gal if I want to run my higher boost setting. :) Otherwise, we have 93. :D

You don't need 93 octane or water injection for a moderately modified FD. You do need a proper tune, with the proper mods to support your higher boost level, and functional boost control.

Running 15 psi at 8300 rpm on a base map does not fall into those parameters regardless of octane level.

Running over 14 psi you do, or you're running precariously close to the edge

Nonsense. Try running 87 with 15 psi and your apex seals will be ejected out the tailpipe on the street. Where do people come up with this kind of misinformation?

I think adam meant that running 15 psi @ 8300 rpms on the base map does not fall into the category of having proper mods to support the higher boost level, as stated earlier in his post. :icon_tup:

Don't forget that if you spit a seal out, you'll probably need a new primary or secondary turbine wheel too. Turbine wheels spinning at 10s of k's RPMs don't like metal thrown at them.

And you can't just look in there and tell, you actually have to take the turbine housing off and get a full, unobstructed view of the turbine to check damage. I almost missed one with a fiber optic camera snaked up in there. Best to put your greasy hands right on the problem.

+1. People make it out to be as if 91 will detonate your car just by looking at it. 15 psi seems to be safe concensus around here.

Either way it is always a good idea to have AI just in case you over boost, get a bad tank of gas whatever.

Do you run 15 psi with the gt35r on 91 octane Elliott?

yes sir...

When we first tuned the car, my mechanic and I drove it to his test spot where he basically beat the shit out of my FD for about 15 minutes non stop WOT at 15 psi. It was a mountain road near his house, up hill, down hill, tight turns, mutha f@cker even drifted a corner. At some point I thought we were gonna slide off the cliff and eat shit :lol:. Finally we ended the trip with a few 140+ MPH pulls. Of course we monitored AFR's, EGT's, injector duty cycle, knock... and the car was fine no AI, no octane booster just straight chevron 91.

I do need to get AI in order to protect myself from a bad tank of gas or an over boost situation. I'm actually tuned for higher but at that point it makes me REALLY nervous...

in my experience, timing (relative to the intake temps and octane level) blows engines more than anything else... i've unintentionally leaned out (usually due to dropping fuel pressure) many engines, piston and rotary, and they have survived. too much timing and they will undoubtedly knock though.

i got a methanol injection system from alky control. need to work a few kinks out, but once thats done ohhhh man, i get the benefits in dividends!

to the OP, just get a compression test like everyone else is saying man. that is the best way to figure out whats going on.

Read the thread moron. We are talking about the difference between 93 octane and 91 octane. Even you should be smart enough to figure that out. Its no wonder so many people on this board regard you with so little respect.

[QUOTE=TRWeiss1;10158890]You must have a race gas supplier SOMEWHERE near you, right?
oh hell yah. i got race gas suppleirs up the ying yang but you know the problem? this state is ran by a bunch of fucking idiots so guess what? carb passed a law that suppliers can only sell the stuff to cars without a license. they require the time and dates of the sanctioned race event that we will use the fuel. no longer can u just go buy it. the fines are hefty as well

^ Wow...That is some BULLSH*T right there! :cursing: I just go into Dougs speedshop and tell them if I want 110 or 115. :)

That was completely uncalled for, asshole. Granted I misread your post, but it wasn't worded all that clearly. Disagree with the statement, there isn't any need for personal attacks.

Here’s a thought. Maybe if you didn’t get so high and mighty like you know everything there is to know about these cars people wouldn’t have such a problem with you.

YOU misinterpreted his post and then jumped all over it calling “bullshit” on something that YOU misread. Then, on top of that, you proceed to call it misinformation!! And you wonder why people get pissed? Seriously?! :rolleyes:

People would overlook this if it happened once or twice, but you seem to do this sh*t all the time and people are sick of it, hence why adam called you out on it…

It also makes me laugh how you say his name calling was "completely uncalled for," yet you turn right around to call him an asshole. Pot calling the kettle black? Again, get off your high horse. You'll get a lot more respect when you come down here and join the rest of us. :icon_tup:

This.