apexFD

Hey guys,


I just had a bit of an epiphany... Althought im sure it has being covered before i cannot find anything with the search.

I am weighting out keeping the stock series 6 ECU/fuel/boost/turbos for reliability reasons. I am really debating microtech standalone simply for the quality/efficiency of the tune, ie fuel consumption and adaptation of the tune. The stock ECU is wonderful in the way that it accounts for altitude and every other condition the engine might encounter. I do not know if this quality of worksmanship is acheivable with a standalone, i imagine it would however at that point i might as well buy a series 8 ECU with all the research done haha.

What information do we have about a conversion to series 8 engine configuration???

As far as i know, based on wiki, the series 7 had slight vac system upgrade and a 16 bit ECU which made 10hp more. The series 8 had better turbos, better IC and cooling (front bumper, i doubt they changed the rad), a better 16 bit ECU which made 280HP. So that leads me to beleive that the engine block, manifolds (possibly a slight change here, nothing block off plates cant fix), electrical system, mounts etc etc would all have stayed the same. Making a series 8 engine conversion simple.


So all in all, with 280hp stock with a tune up/ reliability mods and a full exhaust i would think 310-320rwhp could be acheived with.


The only problem would be to figure out and find everything i would need for the conversion.... hmm i need your help on this guys.



If anybody has any info on this please let me know!



Thanks in advance.



=Ben

BADSVN2000

short of changing the complete car loom, not just the engine loom you cant do it! The series 8's have different wiring configurations and plugs on the looms to ecu etc. I had a freind with a 1992 bat that got a s8 motor, box, loom and ecu but found that none of it would match up to the original car so he is now putting all his series 6 stuff on his engine. If you do find a s8 loom i would suggest that you check the interior plugs (wiring to the rear of the car) will match up apart from that once you have the dash and aircon out its easy as pie.

I just converted my series 6 from auto to manual and completly changed the engine bay to cabin loom to a manual one, took me a bit but its worth it, no more auto crap at all!!!

apexFD

Anybody??


I was really hoping that this topic would create more discussion.


=BEn

hwnd

iTrader: (4)

I dont understand why you would think to put forth that much effort and money.

outside of the 16bit ecu - what are you going to gain that you can't convert on your own (without swapping engines). and as far as i can recall.. the factory tune had one of a few primary goals (Economy & `Safe Power`).

Swapping engine series then adding an EMS unit is silly for 350hp.
I think you'd do much better by taking the effort and rebuilding an engine with your goals in mind.

..on a side note (as a Motorola Dismember) I wouldn't go chasing the 16bit ECU for 320hp;

just my .1 cent;

Verbal

I am pretty sure he wants to retain the series 8 ecu, not go to an EMS. It sounds like a good idea. I would be curious to see what was entailed.

Indian

iTrader: (1)

I've done that swap. Took me 8 months to find data on it. If you really want to change ecu, Just buy a power FC or HKS f con and plug it in, then tune,(you 'll need a HKS certified tuner for HKS) otherwise Listen to what these guys have to say.
it's not worth the hassle just for 350HP.

I went with haltech because of the knowledge base here and the easy access to find a tuner in my part of the world. If I had to do it again, I would have bought a power fc with a data logic and BAM!! that's all she would have wrote, instead of me running two ecu's in my car now. The wire harness is so inter twine with each connector, that it's a pain. I'm not saying it can't work, but it'll take time to configure. If you want the wiring schematics for the series 8 though, just pm me and I set you up.

Indian

apexFD

Oh cool, i knew someone around here had knowledge about something about this.


What actual components are different between the series 6 and the series 8? Turbo, ECU, some emmisions stuff?


Do you have any links to info about this?




=Ben

YOUWSH

Exactly none of the plugs will match up. I've done a full Series 7 conversion into my Series 6 and boy the effort involved in that was hardcore. I pretty much changed every wire in my car because everything is different, but most importantly the plugs are different when it comes back to plugging it into the ECU.

There is only one guy here in AUS that I know of that HAS successfully thrown in a Series 8 motor into a Series 6 without having to replace the wiring harnesses whatsoever. How he did this still amazes me.

Then again he had a Series 8 motor to begin with. From what I understand you just want to throw in a Series 8 ECU into a Series 6? That simply won't happen.

To keep it simple the engine in the latter Series is different and that it had vast improvements done particularly the rats nest. Obviously the S8 ECU is design to control this more simple vacumm configuration, etc. Now lets say you throw it into a Series 6, I can't imagine the number of error codes you'll be getting once you get past working out how its going to plug into the ECU.

I'll give you another example, I threw in a S8 gauge cluster into my car 2 weeks ago. The thing didn't work! Why? Because the wiring is different. I now have to get someone to resolder the wire tracks at the back of it to match up with the earlier model. Now can you imagine doing this on an entire car?

Indian

iTrader: (1)

YOUWSH, I have to say that you are wrong, well at least informed. Below is a picture of how you can use a series 8 computer in a series 6 Fd


This is actually being sold at the moment here:https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=690450

They are definetly ways to get a things done.

YOUWSH

I'm not getting into a debate about who's right or wrong. I'm just telling you based on what I have been through personally.

Yes I've seen those types of conversion harnesses before with a good example being the Banzai conversion harness for the FC3S. I've seen similar sold in auctions on Yahoo Japan but my question to you is if 'this is the way to go' then why isn't every Series 6 owner doing this?

Everyone on this forum might as well buy that harness and the Power FC for the 99+ Series 8 and slap it into their cars.

I think this is a very grey area but my opinion still stands...i.e if you want your car to run like a Series 8, get the S8 engine, harness etc and do the conversion. You can't simply slap on the Series 8 ECU and expect it to be a Series 8.

apexFD

OK, just to clarify.... what i am saying is this.



Start out with a series 6 bone stock car... then substitute into it a series 8 ECU, series 8 wiring harness(if needed), series 8 turbos.


Dont worry about the emissions part of this... as emissions will be deleted. So that is 1/2 the battle right there haha.



What problems do we run into with doing this? What other series 8 parts would i need for the swap?? As far as i know the blocks and manifold designs are the same.



=Ben

Indian

iTrader: (1)

It might be a grey area for you, but what about all the other people who have bought adapter harnesses for their haltech like this http://www.k2rd.com/haltech/plugin/index.html
or what about the adater harnes that comes with the fcon? They are grey too? Even Claudio http://www.tuningtechnology.com makes harness adapters, maybe because he's not stuck in a grey area. These adapters have being going on for a long time, and it makes sense that after a while, they would have developed a series 8 harness. It makes life easier and neater.

It's the same concept and it works just fine. It running pin to pin. Do you actually understand what the difference is between the series 6 and 8 ecu other than it being a 16 bit ecu?( BTW: the black box does under the manifold does the exact same thing as what the series 6 rat nest does, it just looks different. Plugs migh look different but they all do the same job.

At the end of the day to each his own, Like I said, if I could do it over I would have gotten one , if it was available at the time.

DaiOni

"Start out with a series 6 bone stock car... then substitute into it a series 8 ECU, series 8 wiring harness(if needed), series 8 turbos."

I've read your posts three times now, and I still don't get the point of it all (maybe I'm stupid, it's late here, lol).

It's a massive job. There's no real advantages to be made.

* only known bonus with the block itself is a better oiling system - as far as I know, there has been no quantification of the benefits of that.

* you will certainly need a different engine wiring harness - there's no way around it (version I (91-93) alone has THREE different types of harness. I sold one last week - price from mazda japan was around US$700.)

* what about things like ABS (radically different again)?

* series 8 turbos (280ps versions) are a waste of time, unless your current turbos are gone (as they are cheaper to replace, new, than s6 turbos - believe it or not). They're actually less reliable under sustained high boost. They have a very slightly better spool up - there's a widespread belief that they're magic - but, really, the fact is that when people swap out a set of shagged s6 turbos, and put in a new set (of any variety).... it does seem like magic. For the cash - a set of BNRs is the go.

* The turbos change the power delivery (and actually have slightly less power in the lower end of the range - according to reports at time of release) - the 280ps s8 (which, in reality, makes more power - they make around 300ps stock), has a little over 1psi extra boost - that's where the power comes from. There's a slight increase in power with the s7 due to the revised intake, y-pipe - and the 280ps s8 has a better cat-back.

* (FWIW) series 8 radiator is bigger - it's quite noticeable when they are side by side


* buy a PFC.

Indian

iTrader: (1)

your heard it from the man himself. Daioni would know, without his help, I'd still probably be in reverse when it came to this setup.
One thing though, the ABS has it's on control unit with is in the back of the car,so the ecu doesn't actually "see" it ,if you know what I mean. Your your tired though, so no pun intended D.

apexFD

Thank you for your post!


Well i think the answer is obvious now... this swap is not worth the money or the time.



=Ben

YOUWSH

Exactly what I was thinking the first time I read over this post.

As for you Indian, if you want to get on your high horse thinking you know it all be my guest. This forums is about sharing experiences in the attempt to solve someone elses problem, not dumping a whole lot of facts in the attempt to prove someone who is trying to help another member out wrong. After I read your second response I knew already your off on another tangent talking about aftermarket ECU's etc etc when this was about a stock S8 ECU.

The reason your ECU doesn't 'see' your ABS reinforces my point about this whole topic once more. The ABS ecu in your boot is different to a Series 8. Have you actually seen one yourself or the size of that plug compared to a Series 6?

I've had a Series 6, 7 and 8 ABS ecu lined up next to each other and apart from the different size in plugs as well as different coloured serial numbers stamped on the ecu itself, they are different.

Series 8 run on a 4 channel ABS system where as your running on a 3 channel so you tell me now where are they going to make a 'harness' to suit this when the ecu itself is registering 4 channel when it in actual fact its not. So I don't think your car is 'seeing' things wrong so to speak and neither am I.

Indian

iTrader: (1)

dude, the only horse around here is you, just cool out. From your first post you were shooting things down, remember:"Exactly none of the plugs will match up". Not just that but it seem that because it didn't work for you, it cant work at all, not to mention you shot at every other thing I said. Your just sad man.

Dude, we were talking about an ENGINE MANAGEMENT HARNESS, the ABS is on another harness, which does not interfere with the engine ecu. You are so upset with me that you didn't even read my post properly.
Anyway, if I offended you I apologize. It looks like unless your from Aus land, your a dump ***.

I'm glad that Brian helped apexFD reach his solution. I think we've beaten this dead "horse" a little too long now.

hwnd

iTrader: (4)

i saw this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/97-Ve...QQcmdZViewItem