RotaryExtreme toelink upgrade and install - pics
03-31-04, 04:25 PM
#27
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No, I rally a Mitsubishi Galant VR4...or did till I hit a tree...stupid trees...I'm rebuilding...but bought the FD(money/time pit #1), bought a VFR(money/time pit #2, and got a GF(money/time pit #3) so its takin me a bit of time 
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/r...er/treeter.jpg
on the threaded rod...the AFCO rods list that "1in. O.D. has 3/4 -16 RH and LH threads."
giving them a call will confirm that they have different threads in each end.
then you buy the correct LH and RH rod ends
you're right that often times a custom job comes out to be more than a pre made kit. 7 years of makin stuff has given me a pretty good understanding of what those traps are
PS: Some one donate me a set of stock ride height springs and some stock struts...mine came with pettit lowering springs...and I'll take my FD out to a rally cross and get yah some good dirt FD driftin pictures.
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/r...er/treeter.jpg
on the threaded rod...the AFCO rods list that "1in. O.D. has 3/4 -16 RH and LH threads."
giving them a call will confirm that they have different threads in each end.
then you buy the correct LH and RH rod ends
you're right that often times a custom job comes out to be more than a pre made kit. 7 years of makin stuff has given me a pretty good understanding of what those traps are
PS: Some one donate me a set of stock ride height springs and some stock struts...mine came with pettit lowering springs...and I'll take my FD out to a rally cross and get yah some good dirt FD driftin pictures.
03-31-04, 07:24 PM
#30
Running Lean
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Jim is what some people refer to as special.
I can assemble threaded pieces, but machining and/or prototyping nylon and stainless is out of my league.
Jim has the skills to pay the bills.
I just fly jets for the Air Force, and fly RX-7's in my spare time
I can assemble threaded pieces, but machining and/or prototyping nylon and stainless is out of my league.
Jim has the skills to pay the bills.
I just fly jets for the Air Force, and fly RX-7's in my spare time
03-31-04, 08:08 PM
#31
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Yeah, I got it. Please check your email. Thanks.
Chuck Huang
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by jimlab
I like paying $1k for this and $1k for that.
Chuck, I ordered a pair of the toe links from you earlier today.
I like paying $1k for this and $1k for that.
Chuck, I ordered a pair of the toe links from you earlier today.
03-31-04, 08:10 PM
#32
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
Yes indeed. Thanks. I need to use your photos instead the ones I took. The ones I took look like crap. I need to take some new ones.
I thought you got the trailing arms too?
Chuck Huang
I thought you got the trailing arms too?
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by damian
ahh see chuck, my pictorial posts got you some more buisness already (heheheh)
ahh see chuck, my pictorial posts got you some more buisness already (heheheh)
04-01-04, 02:45 PM
#34
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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hehe.. I will give you a good price on a set of trailing arms. Email me at rotaryextreme@aol.com. I have them in stock.
Chuck
Chuck
Originally posted by damian
>>I thought you got the trailing arms too?
>>Chuck Huang
not yet, but if you want to send me some for pictures I'll be happy to take em :-) (heheheh)
>>I thought you got the trailing arms too?
>>Chuck Huang
not yet, but if you want to send me some for pictures I'll be happy to take em :-) (heheheh)
04-01-04, 03:34 PM
#35
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by rotaryextreme
What I mean is that if you buy a pre thread tube, it's only either left hand thread or left hand thread.
What I mean is that if you buy a pre thread tube, it's only either left hand thread or left hand thread.
Before going back to stock toe links I sourced all the parts and did some thinking:
The steel or aluminum tubes with a left hand 5/8-18 thread in one end and a right hand 5/8-18 thread in the other and the correct length (I forget the length off the top of my head) were less than $20 a pair. 5/8-18 jamnuts no more than $1 apiece, dust seals from Baker Precision $20. That leaves the 8 adapters needed to fit inside the 5/8" bore rod ends and hold the stock mounting bolts, as well as the rod ends themselves. Being very generous figure $40 for the adapters. That totals to $84 +rodends. Rodend prices are all over the place. You can get cheap ones for $12 each or good 3 piece teflon lined ones for $40+ each.
I was the first person I know of to start using the dust seals on the rodends and after trying them for a while I still had my doubts that these would outlast stock parts on a daily driven vehicle. I can buy replacement joints for the stock toe links through Mazda Motorsports for about $30 each; so I can purchase all the joints and have them pressed in for roughly $150 and have parts that will last longer than aftermarket links.
So in the scheme of things the stock joints and the aftermarket rod ends have the same replacement costs: about $30-40 each. The aftermarket ends will require realigning the car when installed. The stock ones will require pressing them in (no realign necessary as long as you don't swap the left and right sides). It's a dead heat as to replacement costs, but the stock parts will last longer and I can feel no performance benefit from a solid rear toe link. I don't recommend things just because they are shiny and new; performance is what counts.
I've been through 3 complete sets of aftermarket rodends so if I would have just stuck with stock in the first place I would be ahead money wise.
There are thousands of guys all over this country racing their cars on Saturday nights on small dirt tracks and they probably spend far less on their cars then any of us. A tube with a rodend on each end of it is not a complex part that requires engineering. People are paying for the convenience.
04-01-04, 04:30 PM
#36
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Originally posted by rotaryextreme
Yes indeed. Thanks. I need to use your photos instead the ones I took. The ones I took look like crap. I need to take some new ones.
Chuck Huang
Yes indeed. Thanks. I need to use your photos instead the ones I took. The ones I took look like crap. I need to take some new ones.
Chuck Huang
04-01-04, 04:41 PM
#38
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
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Of course you can make yourself a home made one. With what you describe. Buy a tube and use a hack saw to cut them into length. Use a grinding wheel to make that cut out so you can hold the rod when you tighen jam nuts. Buy the cheapest rod end you can find and they probably won't last too long. But is it going to be as nice and as good quality? I doubt it. The one I am selling are not some home made parts. Those are done by a CNC machine shop and the tube are not the pre-threaded one that you can buy from any store. It starts out with a solid rod, extrued to the length needed to fit the rod end and then threaded. The hex cut out is made with a CNC machine. The bushing are made from a CNC machine. Those CNC machines require CAD programs to operate. And no, those bushings are not just $40 a set. They cost me a lot more than that. They have to be very precise or you will have play in the suspension.
The home made method and the ones I offer are drastically different. You are comparing apples to oranges here.
I really have no problem when people make their own stuff. I encourage people to do that and I have helped quite a few people finish their projects even though I offer the same products. The only problem I have is that if you make it seem like the home made one is going to be as nice and precise, that's something not fair to say. You are not just paying for the convenience. There is a lot of time and labor invovled to make those parts. Precision and quality are what you are paying. If you try to make your own from ground zero and calculate how much time it takes and how much shipping cost from different vendors, and how much gas you have to waste running around. Remember your time is precious just like mine. The time you spent on those can be spent on something else. Caculate all that see how much it costs to make an exact one like the ones I offer.
Chuck Huang
The home made method and the ones I offer are drastically different. You are comparing apples to oranges here.
I really have no problem when people make their own stuff. I encourage people to do that and I have helped quite a few people finish their projects even though I offer the same products. The only problem I have is that if you make it seem like the home made one is going to be as nice and precise, that's something not fair to say. You are not just paying for the convenience. There is a lot of time and labor invovled to make those parts. Precision and quality are what you are paying. If you try to make your own from ground zero and calculate how much time it takes and how much shipping cost from different vendors, and how much gas you have to waste running around. Remember your time is precious just like mine. The time you spent on those can be spent on something else. Caculate all that see how much it costs to make an exact one like the ones I offer.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by DamonB
Not if you know where to go; these are not special parts. Shops that specialize in dirt track or open wheel cars (they're in your hometown or on the internet) stock steel and aluminum tubes in many various lengths and you can get them with the same thread on both ends or normal/reverse thread. Every racecar with fabbed suspension parts works this way; the FD isn't special. These things are very cheap and easy to get.
Before going back to stock toe links I sourced all the parts and did some thinking:
The steel or aluminum tubes with a left hand 5/8-18 thread in one end and a right hand 5/8-18 thread in the other and the correct length (I forget the length off the top of my head) were less than $20 a pair. 5/8-18 jamnuts no more than $1 apiece, dust seals from Baker Precision $20. That leaves the 8 adapters needed to fit inside the 5/8" bore rod ends and hold the stock mounting bolts, as well as the rod ends themselves. Being very generous figure $40 for the adapters. That totals to $84 +rodends. Rodend prices are all over the place. You can get cheap ones for $12 each or good 3 piece teflon lined ones for $40+ each.
I was the first person I know of to start using the dust seals on the rodends and after trying them for a while I still had my doubts that these would outlast stock parts on a daily driven vehicle. I can buy replacement joints for the stock toe links through Mazda Motorsports for about $30 each; so I can purchase all the joints and have them pressed in for roughly $150 and have parts that will last longer than aftermarket links.
So in the scheme of things the stock joints and the aftermarket rod ends have the same replacement costs: about $30-40 each. The aftermarket ends will require realigning the car when installed. The stock ones will require pressing them in (no realign necessary as long as you don't swap the left and right sides). It's a dead heat as to replacement costs, but the stock parts will last longer and I can feel no performance benefit from a solid rear toe link. I don't recommend things just because they are shiny and new; performance is what counts.
I've been through 3 complete sets of aftermarket rodends so if I would have just stuck with stock in the first place I would be ahead money wise.
There are thousands of guys all over this country racing their cars on Saturday nights on small dirt tracks and they probably spend far less on their cars then any of us. A tube with a rodend on each end of it is not a complex part that requires engineering. People are paying for the convenience.
Not if you know where to go; these are not special parts. Shops that specialize in dirt track or open wheel cars (they're in your hometown or on the internet) stock steel and aluminum tubes in many various lengths and you can get them with the same thread on both ends or normal/reverse thread. Every racecar with fabbed suspension parts works this way; the FD isn't special. These things are very cheap and easy to get.
Before going back to stock toe links I sourced all the parts and did some thinking:
The steel or aluminum tubes with a left hand 5/8-18 thread in one end and a right hand 5/8-18 thread in the other and the correct length (I forget the length off the top of my head) were less than $20 a pair. 5/8-18 jamnuts no more than $1 apiece, dust seals from Baker Precision $20. That leaves the 8 adapters needed to fit inside the 5/8" bore rod ends and hold the stock mounting bolts, as well as the rod ends themselves. Being very generous figure $40 for the adapters. That totals to $84 +rodends. Rodend prices are all over the place. You can get cheap ones for $12 each or good 3 piece teflon lined ones for $40+ each.
I was the first person I know of to start using the dust seals on the rodends and after trying them for a while I still had my doubts that these would outlast stock parts on a daily driven vehicle. I can buy replacement joints for the stock toe links through Mazda Motorsports for about $30 each; so I can purchase all the joints and have them pressed in for roughly $150 and have parts that will last longer than aftermarket links.
So in the scheme of things the stock joints and the aftermarket rod ends have the same replacement costs: about $30-40 each. The aftermarket ends will require realigning the car when installed. The stock ones will require pressing them in (no realign necessary as long as you don't swap the left and right sides). It's a dead heat as to replacement costs, but the stock parts will last longer and I can feel no performance benefit from a solid rear toe link. I don't recommend things just because they are shiny and new; performance is what counts.
I've been through 3 complete sets of aftermarket rodends so if I would have just stuck with stock in the first place I would be ahead money wise.
There are thousands of guys all over this country racing their cars on Saturday nights on small dirt tracks and they probably spend far less on their cars then any of us. A tube with a rodend on each end of it is not a complex part that requires engineering. People are paying for the convenience.
Last edited by rotaryextreme; 04-01-04 at 04:43 PM.
04-01-04, 04:49 PM
#39
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
I will do that. Sometimes I find people are too lazy to read all the crap I write so I keep it short and simple. Those are selling pretty well even though the description on the website sucks. lol I sold about 50 sets each so far. Pretty good considering there are many other kinds on the market and not too many FD's left in the US.
Chuck Huang
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by alberto_mg
You also need to include that kick *** description you have on this thread rather than the 1 sentence you have about the links on your site. The little sentence doesn't do your product any justice.
You also need to include that kick *** description you have on this thread rather than the 1 sentence you have about the links on your site. The little sentence doesn't do your product any justice.
04-01-04, 04:50 PM
#40
04-01-04, 06:04 PM
#41
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by rotaryextreme
Of course you can make yourself a home made one. With what you describe. Buy a tube and use a hack saw to cut them into length. Use a grinding wheel to make that cut out so you can hold the rod when you tighen jam nuts
Of course you can make yourself a home made one. With what you describe. Buy a tube and use a hack saw to cut them into length. Use a grinding wheel to make that cut out so you can hold the rod when you tighen jam nuts
As for hacksaws and grinding wheels you're not listening. Try giving someone like Stock Car Products or any open wheel supplier a call for tubes. They come to whatever length you like with whatever thread you like and a hex milled in them; ready to go. There's no hacking
and they are every bit as "beautiful" as anything from RE, M2, Pettit etc. This ain't rocket science.If you're paying a machine shop to make anything but your adapters I am sure you are paying too much or at least way over-engineering the part. There's no need to start with "solid rod, extruded to the length needed to fit the rod end and then threaded". Any rod stock is either rolled or extruded, that's how it's made and gets into anyone's hands.
You don't have to convince me of why yours are worth $250; my opinion is not a threat or a knock on your product. Somehow people have to be convinced of "new and improved".
You might try reading my post again without the red mist in your eyes. It's merely a representation of economics, not a damnation of you or your products. My point of giving the dollar amounts for everything was to show that in the end you spend about the same to either buy new stock bushings and press them in or buy new aftermarket toe links. However my experience has shown the stockers last longer.
04-01-04, 06:20 PM
#42
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
I was not defensive. Just trying to point out there is a difference. I agree with you that this is no rocket science but no matter what, I take pride in the products I offer and I will go that extra step to make them stand out and differentiated the from the rest. I rather over engineer something than sell some products that I don't even want to put on my own car.
I understand there is hollow rod you can buy. I have done my research before I offer these items. All the rest of the toe links and trailing arms on the makets have the hollow rod. I rather take that extra step to offer them in a solid rod by extruding them just enough to fit the rod end so the remaining of the rod remains solid.
There are different grades of rod ends you can buy and maybe by using the better ones, you will have better experience. If you don't mind, you can share with us which rod end you used.
Chuck Huang
I understand there is hollow rod you can buy. I have done my research before I offer these items. All the rest of the toe links and trailing arms on the makets have the hollow rod. I rather take that extra step to offer them in a solid rod by extruding them just enough to fit the rod end so the remaining of the rod remains solid.
There are different grades of rod ends you can buy and maybe by using the better ones, you will have better experience. If you don't mind, you can share with us which rod end you used.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by DamonB
Don't get defensive, Chuck. I haven't accused you or your product of anything. What you offer looks very well made.
As for hacksaws and grinding wheels you're not listening. Try giving someone like Stock Car Products or any open wheel supplier a call for tubes. They come to whatever length you like with whatever thread you like and a hex milled in them; ready to go. There's no hacking and they are every bit as "beautiful" as anything from RE, M2, Pettit etc. This ain't rocket science.
If you're paying a machine shop to make anything but your adapters I am sure you are paying too much or at least way over-engineering the part. There's no need to start with "solid rod, extruded to the length needed to fit the rod end and then threaded". Any rod stock is either rolled or extruded, that's how it's made.
You don't have to convince me of why yours are worth $250; my opinion is not a threat to your product. Somehow people have to be convinced of "new and improved".
You might try reading my post again without the red mist in your eyes. It's merely a representation of economics, not a damnation of you or your products. My point of giving the dollar amounts for everything was to show that in the end you spend about the same to either buy new stock bushings and press them in or buy new aftermarket toe links. However my experience has shown the stockers last longer.
Don't get defensive, Chuck. I haven't accused you or your product of anything. What you offer looks very well made.
As for hacksaws and grinding wheels you're not listening. Try giving someone like Stock Car Products or any open wheel supplier a call for tubes. They come to whatever length you like with whatever thread you like and a hex milled in them; ready to go. There's no hacking
and they are every bit as "beautiful" as anything from RE, M2, Pettit etc. This ain't rocket science.If you're paying a machine shop to make anything but your adapters I am sure you are paying too much or at least way over-engineering the part. There's no need to start with "solid rod, extruded to the length needed to fit the rod end and then threaded". Any rod stock is either rolled or extruded, that's how it's made.
You don't have to convince me of why yours are worth $250; my opinion is not a threat to your product. Somehow people have to be convinced of "new and improved".
You might try reading my post again without the red mist in your eyes. It's merely a representation of economics, not a damnation of you or your products. My point of giving the dollar amounts for everything was to show that in the end you spend about the same to either buy new stock bushings and press them in or buy new aftermarket toe links. However my experience has shown the stockers last longer.
04-01-04, 06:48 PM
#43
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Originally posted by rotaryextreme
I will do that. Sometimes I find people are too lazy to read all the crap I write so I keep it short and simple.
I will do that. Sometimes I find people are too lazy to read all the crap I write so I keep it short and simple.
- precision machined cnc-ed dust shields for long life
- improved suspension accuracy through use of higher grade rod ends
yada yada
04-01-04, 06:49 PM
#44
Speed Mach Go Go Go
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If and when my engine ever get's installed, I will be making them in Titanium. If I had the tools to take off my M2's, I would have done it 6 mo ago. I can't say I can notice the difference between stock and aftermarket but my car has never been to a legal track.
04-01-04, 07:17 PM
#45
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by rotaryextreme
If you don't mind, you can share with us which rod end you used.
Chuck Huang
If you don't mind, you can share with us which rod end you used.
Chuck Huang
Next I went to a 3 piece teflon lined rod end with seals, making
this post over a year ago about them. They were holding up pretty good but even with the dust seals I found that the races on the rod ends showed signs of contamination after many months (roughly a year). Certainly an improvement but not good enough IMO. I then cut my losses and went back to stock. People can decide for themselves what a toe link must be able to do and what it takes to do that but I figured for the money at least the stock ones will live longer.
If my car wasn't daily driven and washed once or twice a week the dust covers probably would have been enough.
04-01-04, 09:24 PM
#46
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Technically isn't hollow rod (with appropriate wall stiffness) stronger and stiffer (in the load directions we are interested in) than solid rod anyways? Not to mention it weighs much less than solid rod.
Also, all of this talk about precision this, precision that - as long as you can get the rod ends to align on the same axis and plane, the precision is ultimately going to rest on the alignment machine.
Pre-threaded tubes are going to also use a CNC machine to create the threads. As long as the threads are accurate, there will not be play.
You do not need a CNC'd locking surface to turn the rod - you just need the ability to turn it without the wrench slipping; once again the alignment machine will determine the precision in the end.
CNC, while great and extremely useful, is sometimes overused and over-romanticized.
Also, all of this talk about precision this, precision that - as long as you can get the rod ends to align on the same axis and plane, the precision is ultimately going to rest on the alignment machine.
Pre-threaded tubes are going to also use a CNC machine to create the threads. As long as the threads are accurate, there will not be play.
You do not need a CNC'd locking surface to turn the rod - you just need the ability to turn it without the wrench slipping; once again the alignment machine will determine the precision in the end.
CNC, while great and extremely useful, is sometimes overused and over-romanticized.
04-01-04, 10:40 PM
#47
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
Using the same material 6061 T6 aluminum, how is the hollow rod stronger than a soild one? Can you explain it to me in terms of physics?
Let's explain it in a very simple way. The center roll of the toilet paper is made of paper. Can you crush it with your hands on each end? Yes, you can. Can you crush it if it's made of the same kind of paper but solid with both your hands? I doubt it unless you are the guy from the world's strongest man competition.
So will be the hollow rod be strong enough for all kinds of situation? I don't care. I just know a solid one will be stronger and that's what I offer and I also know my toe links and trailing arms survived a severe crash during the D1 Grand Prix USA. The car's right rear wheel was smashed into the concrete wall at 70-80 mph and both components are ok.
Let's say the bushing you slip through the ball of the rod end is not precise so the diameter is smaller than the diameter of the ball, will you have play? Yes, you will. If you do, it will be the same as the ball on the rod end is worn out and you are going to have play. A alignment machine will not fix that.
I was talking about the play on the bushing, not the thread on the rod.
If the alignment machine can fix anything, people with worn bushing can just put their car on the alignment machine and get everything fixed.
Chuck Huang
Let's explain it in a very simple way. The center roll of the toilet paper is made of paper. Can you crush it with your hands on each end? Yes, you can. Can you crush it if it's made of the same kind of paper but solid with both your hands? I doubt it unless you are the guy from the world's strongest man competition.
So will be the hollow rod be strong enough for all kinds of situation? I don't care. I just know a solid one will be stronger and that's what I offer and I also know my toe links and trailing arms survived a severe crash during the D1 Grand Prix USA. The car's right rear wheel was smashed into the concrete wall at 70-80 mph and both components are ok.
Let's say the bushing you slip through the ball of the rod end is not precise so the diameter is smaller than the diameter of the ball, will you have play? Yes, you will. If you do, it will be the same as the ball on the rod end is worn out and you are going to have play. A alignment machine will not fix that.
I was talking about the play on the bushing, not the thread on the rod.
If the alignment machine can fix anything, people with worn bushing can just put their car on the alignment machine and get everything fixed.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by clayne
Technically isn't hollow rod (with appropriate wall stiffness) stronger and stiffer (in the load directions we are interested in) than solid rod anyways? Not to mention it weighs much less than solid rod.
Also, all of this talk about precision this, precision that - as long as you can get the rod ends to align on the same axis and plane, the precision is ultimately going to rest on the alignment machine.
Pre-threaded tubes are going to also use a CNC machine to create the threads. As long as the threads are accurate, there will not be play.
You do not need a CNC'd locking surface to turn the rod - you just need the ability to turn it without the wrench slipping; once again the alignment machine will determine the precision in the end.
CNC, while great and extremely useful, is sometimes overused and over-romanticized.
Technically isn't hollow rod (with appropriate wall stiffness) stronger and stiffer (in the load directions we are interested in) than solid rod anyways? Not to mention it weighs much less than solid rod.
Also, all of this talk about precision this, precision that - as long as you can get the rod ends to align on the same axis and plane, the precision is ultimately going to rest on the alignment machine.
Pre-threaded tubes are going to also use a CNC machine to create the threads. As long as the threads are accurate, there will not be play.
You do not need a CNC'd locking surface to turn the rod - you just need the ability to turn it without the wrench slipping; once again the alignment machine will determine the precision in the end.
CNC, while great and extremely useful, is sometimes overused and over-romanticized.
04-01-04, 10:47 PM
#48
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Originally posted by clayne
Technically isn't hollow rod (with appropriate wall stiffness) stronger and stiffer (in the load directions we are interested in) than solid rod anyways? Not to mention it weighs much less than solid rod.
Also, all of this talk about precision this, precision that - as long as you can get the rod ends to align on the same axis and plane, the precision is ultimately going to rest on the alignment machine.
Pre-threaded tubes are going to also use a CNC machine to create the threads. As long as the threads are accurate, there will not be play.
You do not need a CNC'd locking surface to turn the rod - you just need the ability to turn it without the wrench slipping; once again the alignment machine will determine the precision in the end.
CNC, while great and extremely useful, is sometimes overused and over-romanticized.
Technically isn't hollow rod (with appropriate wall stiffness) stronger and stiffer (in the load directions we are interested in) than solid rod anyways? Not to mention it weighs much less than solid rod.
Also, all of this talk about precision this, precision that - as long as you can get the rod ends to align on the same axis and plane, the precision is ultimately going to rest on the alignment machine.
Pre-threaded tubes are going to also use a CNC machine to create the threads. As long as the threads are accurate, there will not be play.
You do not need a CNC'd locking surface to turn the rod - you just need the ability to turn it without the wrench slipping; once again the alignment machine will determine the precision in the end.
CNC, while great and extremely useful, is sometimes overused and over-romanticized.
That's just gonna **** everyone off yah...center portion of a solid rod...oohh...contributes to about 5% of the strength... thats why the GOOD sway bars are hollow. "All" the strength with less weight.
oh...and the links I posted in my previous post are where all the nascar boys get a lot of their parts. granted our cars aren't 3500lb lead sleds doin 200mph...but if the parts are tough enough for those suspension duties...probably ok on a 2800 lb street car.
uhh...cough...engineering jibberish to read in link
http://www.hotchkis.net/pdf_files/HollowSwayTech-D.pdf
john
Last edited by teeter; 04-01-04 at 11:04 PM.
04-01-04, 11:02 PM
#49
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
iTrader: (2)
Please enlighten me with some mathematic equations. I am very eager to see how you come up with 5%.
You can have a hollow sway bar but you forgot that the sway bar has stiffness rating. You can achieve the same kind of stiffness with a hollow rod or a smaller diameter solid bar. We are talking about absolute strength on the rod assuming they are made of the same material and same diameter.
Chuck Huang
You can have a hollow sway bar but you forgot that the sway bar has stiffness rating. You can achieve the same kind of stiffness with a hollow rod or a smaller diameter solid bar. We are talking about absolute strength on the rod assuming they are made of the same material and same diameter.
Chuck Huang
Originally posted by teeter
see...now why you bringin actual engineering into a buisness man realm. Come one That's just gonna **** everyone off
yah...center portion of a solid rod...oohh...contributes to about 5% of the strength... thats why the GOOD sway bars are hollow. "All" the strength with less weight.
oh...and the links I posted in my previous post are where all the nascar boys get a lot of their parts. granted our cars aren't 3500lb lead sleds doin 200mph...but if the parts are tough enough for those suspension duties...probably ok on a 2800 lb street car.
john
see...now why you bringin actual engineering into a buisness man realm. Come one
That's just gonna **** everyone off yah...center portion of a solid rod...oohh...contributes to about 5% of the strength... thats why the GOOD sway bars are hollow. "All" the strength with less weight.
oh...and the links I posted in my previous post are where all the nascar boys get a lot of their parts. granted our cars aren't 3500lb lead sleds doin 200mph...but if the parts are tough enough for those suspension duties...probably ok on a 2800 lb street car.
john
04-01-04, 11:12 PM
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see the link posted above
http://www.hotchkis.net/pdf_files/HollowSwayTech-D.pdf
sorry...my estimate was off. Its a 6.5% loss in stiffness going from a solid 1 inch bar to a 1 inch bar with the center 0.5 inch hole cut out of the center...with a 25% decrease in weight.
john
http://www.hotchkis.net/pdf_files/HollowSwayTech-D.pdf
sorry...my estimate was off. Its a 6.5% loss in stiffness going from a solid 1 inch bar to a 1 inch bar with the center 0.5 inch hole cut out of the center...with a 25% decrease in weight.
john