Returning back to the 2 rotor
06-09-03, 05:33 PM
#27
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Originally posted by Lost Time
That's exactly right. Most of the conversion time is spent waiting on parts you need (more often on parts you didn't even realize you were going to need). Despite the "completeness" of Hinson's "kit", there are still SO many other things you'll need. Things you wouldn't even think you were going to need, until you actually get your hands dirty. Three months was a good bit fast than I did mine in. However, if I had to do it again tomorrow, I bet I could get it done start to finish inside a week.
That's exactly right. Most of the conversion time is spent waiting on parts you need (more often on parts you didn't even realize you were going to need). Despite the "completeness" of Hinson's "kit", there are still SO many other things you'll need. Things you wouldn't even think you were going to need, until you actually get your hands dirty. Three months was a good bit fast than I did mine in. However, if I had to do it again tomorrow, I bet I could get it done start to finish inside a week.
I can imagine waiting on little things like special tools for flaring the ends of fuel lines, or the interface for getting the gauges to work right.
But as far as getting the engine in and running, it's just a simple matter of bolting everything together and then wiring up/providing an electrical charge right?
Not that that's trivial or not challenging to get everything to fit right, but hasn't Brian taken care of most of the difficult stuff?
I mean the engine should drop right into the subframe, the support for the transmission and differential are taken care of, the driveshaft is taken care of, the torque arm is taken care of, the bump steer correction is taken care of. It seems like if you have the foresight to address the cooling system (both oil cooler and radiator), and the fuel system (lines, pump, and pressure regulator), and a new master cylinder for the clutch, then you'd be in good shape.
If you had all those parts on hand, along with an engine and transmission, how long would it take you?
I'd think that the final wiring and troubleshooting would take longer than the actual conversion. But getting the car running under it's own power shouldn't take all that long if you've got everything in front of you and the time to turn the wrench, what am I missing here?
06-09-03, 05:44 PM
#28
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Well, in no particular order:
I can't think of any "special" tools required. At least nothing a good shop wouldn't have on hand.
Funny you should say, "it's just a simple matter of bolting everything together and then wiring up/providing and electrical charge right?" That's exactly what I was saying to friends, almost word for word. Six months later my car is running.
Getting the motor/tranny actually put into the car is as simple and straightfoward as possible. Yes, Brian has taken all the hard part out of that.
Having the foresight to "address" the cooling and fuel systems is easy to say, but you don't realize how much needs to be altered or changed altogether. (the oil cooler doesn't even get used, incidentally)
I would allow at least a month to get the whole job done if you have EVERY last nut and bolt you're going to need, if you're doing it for the first time.
I can't think of any "special" tools required. At least nothing a good shop wouldn't have on hand.
Funny you should say, "it's just a simple matter of bolting everything together and then wiring up/providing and electrical charge right?" That's exactly what I was saying to friends, almost word for word. Six months later my car is running.
Getting the motor/tranny actually put into the car is as simple and straightfoward as possible. Yes, Brian has taken all the hard part out of that.
Having the foresight to "address" the cooling and fuel systems is easy to say, but you don't realize how much needs to be altered or changed altogether. (the oil cooler doesn't even get used, incidentally)
I would allow at least a month to get the whole job done if you have EVERY last nut and bolt you're going to need, if you're doing it for the first time.
06-10-03, 09:16 AM
#29
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Originally posted by tbielobockie
Do you have any pics of your setup? I'd like to see what you did. Brian mentioned that there was another one of his customers in Florida on a similar schedule to mine. That must be you.
Do you have any pics of your setup? I'd like to see what you did. Brian mentioned that there was another one of his customers in Florida on a similar schedule to mine. That must be you.
06-10-03, 09:23 AM
#30
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Course they wouldnt have been happy after racing your prior rotary set up either had you ever tuned it. Actually they are probably more happy to get beat by another V8 then they would have been a 1.3liter 80cubic inch rotary engine.
STEPHEN
STEPHEN
06-10-03, 11:14 AM
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i was wondering if i could have my thread back?thanx.
anyways i will start in a couple weeks.
i will be taking the engine out and putting it into my chevy nova.this will take only a couple weeks.
then i will take my time with the fd.it will be sitting in a garage.and things will be done once at a time and once in awhile.jimlab might meet his match on this transplant.i might take few yrs to complete it.this mean body panels and interior too.but since i will have my nova to run around in.there is no reason i shouldnt go with a 3rotor.hell y take 1-1/2 to 2yrs to put just a 2 rotor back in.
but in the mean time i will end up getting rid of the pop-up headlights.minimizing wiring.fixing any bugs.body damage.rattles or leaks.i already had my seperating doors fixed.i will more than likely go with a STACK electronic cluster unit.i will post pics showing im not bullshitting though.
anyways i will start in a couple weeks.
i will be taking the engine out and putting it into my chevy nova.this will take only a couple weeks.
then i will take my time with the fd.it will be sitting in a garage.and things will be done once at a time and once in awhile.jimlab might meet his match on this transplant.i might take few yrs to complete it.this mean body panels and interior too.but since i will have my nova to run around in.there is no reason i shouldnt go with a 3rotor.hell y take 1-1/2 to 2yrs to put just a 2 rotor back in.
but in the mean time i will end up getting rid of the pop-up headlights.minimizing wiring.fixing any bugs.body damage.rattles or leaks.i already had my seperating doors fixed.i will more than likely go with a STACK electronic cluster unit.i will post pics showing im not bullshitting though.
06-10-03, 11:18 AM
#32
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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It was just a humerous type comment but thats exactly my point. He was saying he was happy his project was done but that the local Vipers, Z06, ect ect wasnt happy....obviously cause he is beating them. I was just saying they are probably more happy knowing they were beat by a V8 versus getting beat by a 80 cubic inch engine.
ANYWAY, I serously doubt it was from sucking in air eventhough there is a possibility. But I've drivent pretty hard even with the yellow light on. Guess it just depends on the exact circumstances.
What computer did you have? You mentioned it being rich, what was the a/f and who tuned it?
STEPHEN
ANYWAY, I serously doubt it was from sucking in air eventhough there is a possibility. But I've drivent pretty hard even with the yellow light on. Guess it just depends on the exact circumstances.
What computer did you have? You mentioned it being rich, what was the a/f and who tuned it?
STEPHEN
06-10-03, 01:45 PM
#33
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twint78, quick question. If you're putting the motor/tranny into your Nova, what makes you think you're not going to be blowing "gaskets" then too? You don't think the 700-tranny was just complaining about being in a japanese chassis do you?
06-10-03, 10:37 PM
#35
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Originally posted by SPOautos
... But I've drivent pretty hard even with the yellow light on. Guess it just depends on the exact circumstances.
... But I've drivent pretty hard even with the yellow light on. Guess it just depends on the exact circumstances.
06-10-03, 10:56 PM
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hmm streetport and a t78.i sure do miss that kick in the nuts with just the t78 and a stock motor.then i could add street port and exhuast port to make that sucker spool.
06-10-03, 11:39 PM
#38
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Hey Lost Time, just a few things...I agreed with most of your post...cept a few things...
how? the torque from an LS1 is double the little rotary, torque is what twists and moves the motor. the only way i see that happening is bad motor mounts
he mentioned that he had a highly built car, i doubt it had the stock ecu and stock rev limiter.
he's throwin a 3 rotor in there, and even said he may be giving jimlab some competition....yea, i'd say he's got money
Originally posted by Lost Time
My motor moves quite a bit less laterally than my 13B ever did, even with my FEED torque brace.
My motor moves quite a bit less laterally than my 13B ever did, even with my FEED torque brace.
Originally posted by Lost Time
Your 13BREW revved to 9k rpms? Last time I checked the rev limiter was a good bit less than that. Not to mention that peak power is quite a bit lower than that, so what would you be doing at 9k anyway?
Your 13BREW revved to 9k rpms? Last time I checked the rev limiter was a good bit less than that. Not to mention that peak power is quite a bit lower than that, so what would you be doing at 9k anyway?
Originally posted by Lost Time
To be swapping motors out every 3months, I sure hope you make alot of money.
To be swapping motors out every 3months, I sure hope you make alot of money.
06-11-03, 06:57 AM
#39
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As far as the motor torquing over goes, I have one poly motor mount on my motor now (trick the old Grand National guys use). It keeps the motor from rolling over under hard acceleration but keeps the vibration out. My motor mounts on my 13B were brand new and the FEED brace was extremely stiff. Regardless, the 13B moved over more and because of the brace, it vibrated ALOT more.
Even a "highly built" 13B isn't going to rev up that high. If you look into what it takes to spin the rotary up that high you'll see why it's not practical.... or even necessary. I seriously doubt he invested that kind of money into his old motor.
Again, I don't know this guy, but anyone who "throws" a v8 converions into his car, says he doesn't like it, and on a whim throws a 20B in there sounds like they're not on the up and up. I have a hard time believing he's going to give any kind of competition to Jim, since this project didn't even make it thru its infancy.
Even a "highly built" 13B isn't going to rev up that high. If you look into what it takes to spin the rotary up that high you'll see why it's not practical.... or even necessary. I seriously doubt he invested that kind of money into his old motor.
Again, I don't know this guy, but anyone who "throws" a v8 converions into his car, says he doesn't like it, and on a whim throws a 20B in there sounds like they're not on the up and up. I have a hard time believing he's going to give any kind of competition to Jim, since this project didn't even make it thru its infancy.
06-11-03, 10:25 AM
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lost time.you know what i like about it being my thread that jimlab realized awhile ago also?we dont have to explain ourselves,but we do cause it makes it fun.
one.as far as time management goes.yes jim will have run.it was joke.cuz his v8 has been going for like 2 yrs now.
two the money i will invest in the just the over the next couple yrs will be about 50-60k.
three.who says a built 13b cant do 9k?you better start doing some research.hell the stock motor will start stressing at 8500 rpms.i have came to the realization that my motor was a tough son of a bitch.i boosted 15 psi daily.8k rpms every shift.just like my r6.i ride it to 15,500 rpms every gear.i love winding **** out.i would ending up boosting up to 20-22psi on spike or dynos.and it never detonated,never pinged.that was without tuning or race gas and stock seals.you know what killed my motor at 20k miles?some got sucked in the intake and cut a 1/8 inch groove around the housing.everything else was mint.
four.your gonna get mad cuz i take my money and do engine swaps when i see fit?saying im not on the up and up?hell most ppl wish they could do that.and how am i not on the up and up because i want to try something different, and if it doesnt suit me try something else.
five.the 20b wasnt just on the whim.i had wanted to do a 20b swap way b4 the v8.but at the times i wanted one, they werent available or people were wanting like 6000 dollars for a motor that needed to be rebuilt.hell pettit is still wanting 4800 for theirs.but they guarantee it is able to be dropped in without a rebuild.so it is worth it.plus i wanted to try the v8 deal.so what?
and you know what lost time you are right about one thing.you do not know me.so you are ignorant for judging on no grounds whatsoever.
to another topic.i was reading what that one guy said about the vtec style pport.that would be kinda cool.have closed/open port actuation until a certain rpm.it sounds like it could actually work.but i have no idea about the tuning.that would be stressful on the engine wouldnt it.all of sudden doubling your airflow at say 5k rpms.or if he got really highspeed he could make it controlled actuation where the pport butterflies read off the tps for the normal ports.then they started slightly opening to full open and then slightly closed.
one.as far as time management goes.yes jim will have run.it was joke.cuz his v8 has been going for like 2 yrs now.
two the money i will invest in the just the over the next couple yrs will be about 50-60k.
three.who says a built 13b cant do 9k?you better start doing some research.hell the stock motor will start stressing at 8500 rpms.i have came to the realization that my motor was a tough son of a bitch.i boosted 15 psi daily.8k rpms every shift.just like my r6.i ride it to 15,500 rpms every gear.i love winding **** out.i would ending up boosting up to 20-22psi on spike or dynos.and it never detonated,never pinged.that was without tuning or race gas and stock seals.you know what killed my motor at 20k miles?some got sucked in the intake and cut a 1/8 inch groove around the housing.everything else was mint.
four.your gonna get mad cuz i take my money and do engine swaps when i see fit?saying im not on the up and up?hell most ppl wish they could do that.and how am i not on the up and up because i want to try something different, and if it doesnt suit me try something else.
five.the 20b wasnt just on the whim.i had wanted to do a 20b swap way b4 the v8.but at the times i wanted one, they werent available or people were wanting like 6000 dollars for a motor that needed to be rebuilt.hell pettit is still wanting 4800 for theirs.but they guarantee it is able to be dropped in without a rebuild.so it is worth it.plus i wanted to try the v8 deal.so what?
and you know what lost time you are right about one thing.you do not know me.so you are ignorant for judging on no grounds whatsoever.
to another topic.i was reading what that one guy said about the vtec style pport.that would be kinda cool.have closed/open port actuation until a certain rpm.it sounds like it could actually work.but i have no idea about the tuning.that would be stressful on the engine wouldnt it.all of sudden doubling your airflow at say 5k rpms.or if he got really highspeed he could make it controlled actuation where the pport butterflies read off the tps for the normal ports.then they started slightly opening to full open and then slightly closed.
06-12-03, 05:29 PM
#41
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the car will be a weekend driver.not daily.should i go with a semi pport? with a dual throttle body setup where the pports dont open til 5k rpms.and have a large street port for primaries?just an idea
06-12-03, 08:34 PM
#42
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Dude, where do you come up with some of this stuff? In your sig, it says you intend to use a "stack gauge cluster, boost gauge, oem fuel level gauge". How exactly do you plan on doing that? Since you wired up your gauges for use with your "V8 conversion", I'm sure you realize that the fuel level gauge is integrated with all the other gauges on the oem cluster. Since it works off of the same circuit board, you won't be able to just cut-out your fuel gauge to be used with your trick Stack cluster. How exactly is that going to work?
06-13-03, 12:42 AM
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your right its a circuit board.big deal.your point is?its integrated?your point is?
anything works with time and/or money.thats what i like about japanese project cars.they do not put anything out of their head.everything is possible.
its a few wires a circuit board and a book on how to read electronics.no need to explain myself to you.if you dont like it. dont post jackass.
anything works with time and/or money.thats what i like about japanese project cars.they do not put anything out of their head.everything is possible.
its a few wires a circuit board and a book on how to read electronics.no need to explain myself to you.if you dont like it. dont post jackass.
Last edited by twint78; 06-13-03 at 12:44 AM.
06-13-03, 01:54 PM
#44
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I once heard of someone taking a 13b and adding a rotor and housing plus everything else you would need to make a 20b, anybody ever heard of that? you should look into it.
06-13-03, 05:03 PM
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kronikroller.i have looked into.i do not know you too much so i will not be like most people on here and call you a dumbass noob.but yes it just cost a little money and little of screwing up cuz itll have kinks to be worked out.
that is why im looking into going peripheral porting since it will just be on the weekends,that this car will be drove.ive now been talking to aussies, like riceracing, about tuning a pp.he said with carburation he was able to get it to idle around 1000-1200 rpms.he said fuel injection will be much kinder.if i go with a pport motor.i can have shortened side housings.and have a very compact 2 rotor.but im looking at how much i want to spend.
that is why im looking into going peripheral porting since it will just be on the weekends,that this car will be drove.ive now been talking to aussies, like riceracing, about tuning a pp.he said with carburation he was able to get it to idle around 1000-1200 rpms.he said fuel injection will be much kinder.if i go with a pport motor.i can have shortened side housings.and have a very compact 2 rotor.but im looking at how much i want to spend.
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