Reills

iTrader: (2)

I just purchased a 96 rhd jdm rx7. Im finding out the hard way that i kinda can't get a license plate cause of an invalid vin. However, it has a florida title so i'm a little confused. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

SLOASFK

iTrader: (5)

sell it to a canadian, but an American FD. Dont risk having the car crushed just because you're an idiot. The car deserves better.

Also, search. You don't really think you're the first person to try registering an illegal FD in this country, do you? More like the one hundred thousand and first person.

also for your reference before the thread is discovered and locked...

Gomez

You could come to Australia, we sometimes let Americans live here .

RHD JDM cars are most welcome....here's mine:

Miata_mx5

Cut and paste from 2 threads below: For the most part though, if the car is already here in the USA, i think you are finished.....

First, of all, it is doable.

1) It will not be a mazda, it will be a reconstructed body.

2) DOT, EPA has NO CONTROL over an "assemblage of car parts"

3) You need to call Kaizo Industries (The only 50 state legal way to bring in ANY grey market car), buy a rolling 1992 FD Shell. They will sell you only the shell, without any engine, motor, or headlights, or wheels. An "assemblage" of car parts.

4) Kaizo is a registered manufacturer, so the car comes with an MSO (manufacturers' statement of origin). The car is no longer a mazda, nissan, or w/e else the car was. The car is a KAIZO now. It will be titled as a 2007/2008/2009 + Kaizo. The car goes through some restructuring to meet certain DOT Compliance, so it is not the same thing as what mazda sold to the public.

5) Car gets inspected and assigned a VIN. (You can get a california license plate too).

6) A stock 13B-REW is a federally conforming engine, so you can legally put it in your body. You can put w/e engine you want in it, LS1, 2jz-gte, name it. The RB26DETT is a federally conforming engine as well too. So this covers the Skyline GT-Rs.

7) Register your car in any state, when you are done assembling your car, and enjoy the fruits to come: Since the car is a legal kit car that is no longer what it used to be, apply for a 1 out of 500 california smog exemption.

8) This is the ONLY 100 PERCENT LEGAL way to drive a Grey Market car in the United States. Any car with a Nissanie Motorsports (some of the original experimental Kaizo cars from a few years back, mainly GT-Rs), or Kaizo Industries sticker in the door jambs, and firewall is a 100 percent legal car.

For anyone who does not believe me:

Read these 2 links:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=105699

http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=184192

There is a current fiasco where a few state titled skylines were siezed. One importer brought in a few bad cars, and they are going after his cars only. But the thread explains why a Kaizo Body and a State titled car are totally different.

Joe Schmoe disassembling a car and putting it a container with the intention of re-assembling it as a nissan/mazda/whatever IS A CIRCUMVENTION OF THE LAW and the Clean air act. A legal manufacturer doing the same thing, and modifying the chassis (I.E Ruf, Gemballa, Pettit Racing, Dune Buggies), is DIFFERENT. Kaizo Industries sells you ONLY A UNIBODY. They DO NOT sell you engines, drivetrains, or any such parts. It is up to you, the customer, to put this kit car together yourself.

I drive daily a Kaizo R32 GTR. Never been harassed once in the heart of irvine/so cal.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

^Though I still would have ALOT of questions, this is the most credible sounding way I've heard of for getting a RHD car LEGALLY registered in the states. But it doesn't mention any costs of the services provided, nor do the OP much good.

zack4173

iTrader: (3)

wow thats some awesome info I didnt think we could register them here thats alot of work but its cool to know that.

TRUST

good luck

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

The amount of work is not the main issue - it is the $100k or so in fees that the process will cost, with no guarantee of success even if you spend this amount.

Miata_mx5

The most expensive R34 is only going to be 50,000-70,000 Max. Most S15s go for 25,000-30,000 done. Prices all vary on a lot of things. Rx7s are not too expensive to do.

Who says there is no guarantee of success? Every kaizo car is a 50 state legal car with the ability to have a california license plate, and capability to apply for excemption of emissions. What engine the client chooses to put in his body, and which state they choose to register is up to them.

Kaizo bodies pricing is based on the model of the car. All the bodies are inspected (never bring in a crashed body or one with bad history/condition). Best to line up engine, gearbox, headlights, and wheels before you buy the body though.

FDFDFD

^Where did you come up with those prices? I am curious. Kaizo?

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

LOL, even using the low end of your scale, the buyer ends up with 25k in a chassis that won't even roll because it has no wheels, an 'assigned" VIN and a "kit car" title that doesn't even call it a MAZDA. By the time the schlub assembles it into something that moves under it's own power he's got another $5 to $6k minimum, for a total of over $30,000. And this on a RHD car that no lender or insurance company will be very eager to touch for a fraction of what it cost to put together. But hey, at least it's guaranteed legal. What a deal.

moconnor

iTrader: (14)

I'm talking about the federalization process that a Registered Importer must go though to legalize an FD. Among many other things, it involves making sure the cars pass DOT crash tests, which involves giving the feds two cars for crash testing. If they don't pass, you may have to do more R&D and give them two more. And so on.

If the RI successfully federalize a car then they can import as many as they want and sell them (after doing the required mods). The prices you are quoting are the post-federalization prices charged by the Registered Importer.

You can't possibly know this.

There are no guarantees that the JDM car will pass either the emissions or the crash tests with a realistic R&D budget. Obviously, given an infinite budget it would be possible, but then nobody would buy the cars at the resulting price.

If fact, this is probably the primary reason that nobody has or ever will federalize these cars - even with an easy federalization process nobody is going to pay $50k for a JDM FD that is essentially identical to a US one (and has the steering wheel on the wrong side of the car).

Your source for this claim?

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

What Kaizo is doing is illegal.... sort of. A car MUST leave a manufacture with an engine.
I work for a sandrail manufacture that has an MSO and gives each car a VIN. We are being hit with CARB very harshly to comply with new (not used) smog compliant engines.
A few meetings with CARB and other manufactures got a bit upsetting. One asked CARB if they could just sell a "rolling chassis" to avoid putting in a smog compliant engine. CARB said it would no longer be a vehicle and not eligible for a VIN (federal level).
Now I'm sure the state and the feds do not know that these chassis are selling without engines so their ignorance is key at this point... (except California may be keeping an eye on them).
They also don't know that used engines are installed.
A car that gets a VIN is supposed to get a NEW engine. A used engine is not legal.
Also a new engine has to be tested in their lab (for california sales) and approved by CARB. It doesn't matter if it is a previously approved engine for Mazda, it is no longer a Mazda remember? It has to be an approved engine for Kaizo (or their engine builder) with a C.A.R.B. sticker on it (for California sale).

This is all direct from CARB's mouth to my ears.

edit: now if carb is lying and there is eligibility for a VIN as a kit car, I don't know, but I would assume that they don't since this is a ton of money we are talking about here to get one of these chassis. Last I remember if you build a kit car in California you went to the CHP and they riveted on a VIN plate for you, I'll assume other states do this. California is eliminating this program.


edit2: I'll assume insuring a Kazio is like insuring a sandrail. There is an agreed value, usually backed up with receipts since the insurance company is not familiar with the resale value on something they really haven't heard of.

Miata_mx5

First off, A Kaizo car does not have to meet any crash tests because they are an importer of shells and unibodies, not cars. They do not sell complete cars. They sell parts. The unibodies are modified to meet what the DOT calls a rolling assemblage of car parts. It is up to the customer to put the car together. Which is a piece of cake in terms of finding A) wheels, B) Motor and transmission, C) Headlights, D) Guage cluster.

I can know it. In about 2 years i am bringing over a 2000 Rx7 shell. It will cost me about 25,000 average for the shell. The whole car done should be 35,000. After test driving a stock 2001 Rx7 in japan, to me it is well worth it.

There are 2 Kaizo GT-Rs that just got their california plates and annual smog excemptions. 1 GT-T also with a really unusual engine, not even a nissan engine, got its california plates and smog excemption.

Kaizo SELLS BODIES. They do not SELL CARS. They are a registered importer and manufacturer of BODIES, hence they do not need to comply to any DOT or EPA regulations, because i will promise you there is NOTHING the DOT has on this. It has been checked over and over again.

As for the Sand Rail deal: If you guys are putting engines in the sandrails, of course CARB is going to ask you to comply with stricter laws. If you guys just sell the sandrail chassis', i doubt that would be the same. Why said a manufacturer must sell an engine with a body? Last time i checked Factory Five Racing, and Dune buggies required some assembly (I.E: You need to build it) . Same thing.

The difference is, is that you guys are putting in engines, and trying to sell drivable vehicles. Kaizo sells bodies. That is all they sell. No engines, nothing.

second of all) The RB26DETT is a federally compliant engine. Federal law > state law right?

another point) The RB26DETT in stock form has been put under a CARB sniffer test, and it passes. Just FYI. I happen to know the guy who is in charge of the C.A.R.B Grey market division. Even though they say otherwise, any car 2004 - is usually not looked at for OBDII either. He said directly to me: I can bring over a 2001 Rx7 body, put in, say a stock 1995 Rx7 engine with catalysers and pay 5000 for a CARB Sniffer test at their labs. If it passes, it can be a california legal car. Not Federally legal, california legal. And when the CHP pulls you over, all they care about seeing is that you comply with the emissions.

Hitokiri_Gensai

iTrader: (2)

See, this is why i converted mine.
State reinspects the car and its legally VIN'd as a composite car. none of that crap. although ill tell you this, its a ton of work...

i hate to say it, but from where your sitting, its going to be a hard sell no matter what you do. Its expensive going through a place like Kaizo and is grey... its not entirely legal but its not ILlegal either. its kind of a rough way to go about it if you ask me. But as Miata Mx5 mentioned he does own and drive a skyline registered that way. Personally, i think your better off just buying a USDM one and living with it LHD. RHD really isnt all its cracked up to be, and no matter which route you go its an expensive, time consuming project.

"A composite motor vehicle is defined by statute as "Any motor vehicle, composed or assembled from several parts of other motor vehicles, or the identification and body contours of which are so altered that the vehicle no longer bears the characteristics of any specific make of motor vehicle. Any vehicle not assembled by a manufacturer licensed as such in the State of Connecticut is classified as a composite motor vehicle."

Before a composite vehicle can be registered, the following requirements must be met:
Vehicle must pass a composite vehicle inspection. All composite inspections are done at the Wethersfield inspection lane.

Hours of inspection are 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. (Note: all lanes will be closed from noon to 1 p.m.)

Note: Composite motor vehicles must be transported on a flat bed trailer or car carrier to the inspection site (not to be driven or towed; no wheel of the vehicle may touch the ground) except if validly registered in another state or if the owner is a licensed dealer or repairer.


Effective July 1, 2007, all composite vehicles are exempt from an emissions test.

Note: Starting January 1, 2007 newly completed composite vehicles will need to have an engine that will meet new composite vehicle emissions standards. The standards that will be in effect are equivalent to the two-speed idle standards for 1980 and newer passenger cars and light trucks or 1988 and newer engines from trucks in the 8501 to 10,000 lb. GVWR range. Composite vehicles classified as 2006 model year and older will continue to be subject to existing standards which are approximately equivalent to the two-speed idle standards at a level somewhere between that for 1968 and 1973 vehicles.


Bring the Certificate of Titles of all vehicles used for major component parts or one Title, plus receipts, for the parts of the other vehicles used. If the parts are from used vehicles, make sure the receipts specify the vehicle identification number (VIN). No Title is needed for non-major component parts (examples of major parts are: engine, cowls, transmission, frame, doors, trunk lid, front and rear fenders and quarter panels).


An Application for Inspection of Composite Motor Vehicle (form R-95) must be completed and be accompanied by two photographs of the vehicle as well as supporting documents showing proof of ownership. An Application for Registration and Certificate of Title (form H-13) must also be completed.


At the time of inspection a VIN will be assigned by the Inspector. The year assigned to the vehicle will be the year in which the vehicle was built. On your registration and title documents, the make will be specified as "Composite."
The current inspection fee is $88 and a fee of $50 is charged for the assignment of a VIN.
"
From the CT DMV webpage.

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

Then where are they getting VINs? You have to be a vehicle manufacture to get them. In order for us to legally sell our chassis with a vin, it has to have an engine. We cannot send a bare chassis with a vin. Well we could, but it wont be legal. Yes the customer could do the end assemley and it would appear legit in the end, but it wasn't legal. We the manufacture have to build it, not the customer. If the customer builds it, they are not supposed to get a vin. They have to go to the CHP for a vin and claim it as a "special project." This way they don't have to put a smog legal engine in, but like I said, that program is ending.

Yes it complies with the emissions, everything looks legit at the end. But as a manufacture (yes they are one, they have an mso and get vins, right?) They are not RX7's after they put their vin on it, therefore they are a new, different named car, which do require a new engine (but who's going to check). Chances are nobody is going to notice the problem and it will be legal at the end result, but the process itself isn't.

I'll trust what CARB has to say about federal and state regulations.

If someone can show me that there is a special "kit car" vin that doesn't follow the same rule, I'll shut right up.

edit: at the meeting when the guy brought up a "rolling chassis" or frame (body) to sell with a VIN the guy from CARB said "Do you know what defines a vehicle? (referring to Vehicle Identification Number) An engine and four wheels, if it doesn't have an engine on delivery, it is not a vehicle, therefore no VIN"



Thats cool but my concern isn't about used cars, I'm talking about a "new manufactured" vehicle called a "Kazio."

Miata_mx5

LOL, funny, everyone complains when the cars are illegal, and when they are legal, they complain about something else. Most people pay 20,000-30,000 for some 93 RHD FD anyway for the most part. You think getting a grey market car is cheap? You pay for shipping either way. You pay taxes. You either want a LEGAL grey market car or not.

Let me educate you. First of all: There are lenders that will give money for Kit cars. Try J&J's Best in New York for starters.

2) I guess progressive is real stupid for insuring my car for set value. I guess State Farm is stupid for insuring Kaizo cars also.

Miata_mx5

Well, the CHP Can assign a VIN Right?. Each Kaizo Body comes with an ID Number. The state (each one is different) that inspects the body when it is completed can assign a VIN that is brand new or they can use the existing body number and use that as a VIN.



What do you think factory 5 racing does? How do you think Pettit racing sold street legal 3 rotor FDs? What about dune buggies? What about NOBLES?

You just said, they can claim it as a special project, so a Kaizo can fall under that. Whether the program is ending or not, is a different story.

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

well in order to assign it as a special project it has to have no vins. If it has the vins,the CHP or whatever state program is not used. The MSO certificate is sent to the DMV and you get your registration. You can't just bring an obviously manufactured RX7 to the chp without vins and say you built it, the same goes if it has vins, you can't say "I built it, give me a new vin."

The fact is if you are "manufacturing" cars.
1. You need a VIN stating that it comes from your MSO
2. They must have new engines

Then you have to deal with whatever the state wants you to do, shoot for California since you are good to go if you follow their rules.

Is pettit, factory 5, Billy bob's dune buggy's, Nobles manufacturing their own NEW cars with their own vin and MSO?
If not what they are doing falls under different laws and a different subject all together. Dune buggys (sandrails) in the past have always been special projects where the buyer simply said they built it, those days are gone. Once that CHP deal closes, they have to become genuine manufactures or go out of business.

My main focus is the fact that Kaizo is handing out vins to a new car which nobody else you listed does from my understanding. You even just posted a vin, that right there tells me they should be selling these things with engines, edit: hell, it even says engine type, trans type, and AWD on the plate.

The CARB guy **** a brick when he found out that many buggies with vins left without engines, but it wasn't his concern since it was a federal issue, not a state issue.

I'm not saying they can't get away with it at all, but they basically are telling white lies to get the job done.

Miata_mx5

I posted a picture of a vin plate that kaizo stamped on the body after the state assigned the VIN Number. This particular one was for an arizona car. Kaizo can call their body a GT-R or w/e name they please. They can also state what engine/trans they can recommend. But, in the end the customer does not have to build the car to ANY of the specs kaizo has listed. There is a 4 door skyline with a VQ35DE and a 6 speed gearbox with a California plate, assigned VIN and plaque too.

The are not manufacturing cars, the are manufacturing BODIES. DOT makes this very specific in their rules. 1G Racing supplies MSOs with their NOBLE chassis'. However, they do make it very clear that their bodies come with no engine and drivetrain. They only RECOMMEND what engines to use. Since the engines originally sold in the UK with the NOBLES do not comply with US Standards, 1G Racing leaves the customer to assemble their cars, and deal with the VIN assignation.

Kaizo is a national company. Even if california wants to close its' doors on Kaizo, they are closing their doors on a lot of other kit car manufacturers'. There are always other states after all.

California is always a hard state to appease anyways lol. The client can also choose to register it in another state also. These are FEDERALLY legal bodies. While currently they can be registered in all 50 states, each state might be different, and could be easier or tougher. But in the end, Federal law > State law.

Aeka GSR

iTrader: (4)

I'll check tomorrow to see if our VINs come from the state or the feds, that could make a difference. We have our numbers assigned to us and we have someone make our vins for us. Their cars/bodies may be legal according to the state, but federally it may be a different story. The nice thing about the feds is they never really check =)

Miata_mx5

Please do let me know, i am curious as well.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

I definitely do not. I think it's moronic that even a few people would pay even a fraction of that for having some of that JDM goodness. My sense is that the market is very narrow for RHD and as fads and fashions go, this too will likely pass and in a few years they'll be left with a car even less desirable than it is now.
Just to be clearer, you probably just made my point. When someone has to go to a specialty lender instead of their local bank or Credit Union, there's a reason.
At what premium? My car (a LHD model) is insured for an agreed value, but only after an inspection and appraisal, which I paid for. I doubt an 'assigned' VIN and title listing it as a classic "Kaizo" will make it worth more during a credible appraisal. But then maybe you could get a "gray" appraisal too.

It's a stupid deal to pay 25k for a rolling chassis just so the steering wheel is on the opposite side of your neighbor. Especially when that car will be worth the value of parts even after assembly.

dhays

iTrader: (1)

"Stupid" is a bit harsh.

You may not want to spend your money that way, but let's face it, FD's are toys. Like most adult toys, it makes no practical sense to own one other than the pleasure it gives the owner. What is "stupid" or not can only be judged by the person spending the money.

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Sure it can. Webster's Dictionary...Stupid: "To be benumbed; astonished; very dull in mind". Nope, I think stupid fits. Granted it's my opinion and if someone here had openly admitted to buying a car this way, I may have kept it to myself.
If the FD was never available here in North America, as is the case with the GTR, it all might make some sense. But I'd bet some guy at Kaizo gets a rug burn from rolling on the ground laughing everytime someone writes him a $25,000 or $30,000 check for stripped roller... just because it's got the steering wheel on the right. That's stupid.