Rats nest for Christmas.. yay!
 

Hey Guys, I finally entered the rats nest! I've been following this guide http://rx7.voodoobox.net/ but I'm totally stumped. According do that, I took off my air box, intercooler hoses, air pump, alternator, coil/sparkplug thingy and upper intake manifold. However his first step was to take of the air control valve. He only shows a picture, but doesn't say how to do it. Is the air control valve in the way of taking off the solenoid rack? I Can't see to find the screws for the air control valve either. This job is so frustrating. I don't remember half the things I took off =(. If there's anyone in san jose near mckee, I wouldn't mind help hahaha.

Hi Cloudz,

I suggest looking up the air control valve in the factory service manual. If I recall at least one of the 10mm nuts that holds it on has to be removed blindly. a 1/4" 10mm socket, extension and ratchet ... I think ... maybe a universal joint.

If you haven't already I suggest that you print out the attached diagram on a color printer.

James

Or take the pic to office depot to have it printed and laminated on 11x17 paper makes it easier to read. There are high resolution diagrams floating around on here.

Are you just replacing vacuum lines? If so I don't think you need to remove the acv. The rats nest is held on with two bolts near the coil packs.

Plotter size ;)
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...r/IMG_0038.jpg

hahaha i like that. ^^^^^^

The worst thing about tearing things apart, is remembering how to put them back together. Then at the end, having extra nuts and screws. lol

Link to plotter size it's 40'x28'
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UPBVEC6O
Take pictures, get some plastic bags and label everything as it comes off and you wont have this problem.

I think I'm going to have that problem =(. I have screws everywhere. At first I tried to keep it organized with bags or screwing it back on after i took off the parts lol. So the ACV is in the factory service manual? I'll try looking for it in there. How do you guys read that diagram haha it's so confusing.

If you're going to be replacing all the hoses for the solenoids you will need to remove the ACV, some of them on the left side you just can't get to. The ACV also makes it difficult to unclip the solenoids from the rack.

Recently I removed my ACV and rats nest and went with upgraded solenoids, in the pictures in the thread below you can clearly see where I removed it and the location of the studs sticking out from the LIM.

https://www.rx7club.com/group-buy-product-dev-fd-rx-7-269/custom-solenoid-rack-968956/page6/

Two of them I think are visible, one is as mentioned above: a 1/4 and a small extension you can get to it. You'll just need to mostly by feel instead of sight. Some bright lights in there does help you kind of line it up though.

The ACV(air control valve) is held by 3 flanged nuts (m10). Two are visible but the bottom one is the tricky one, you will an extension to get to it and just feel it pop into place. You can also put some tape around the inside of the socket so you don't end up dropping the nut.

I'm pretty sure I removed the nest without touching the ACV though I did end up removing it later on to replace the oil metering lines and to remove the secondary fuel rail.

What I ended up doing is removing the entire nest with fuel hardlines and coolant hard lines in place. I think its held by 4 large bolts and everything was much easier after that and I didn't want to risk stripping one of the phillips screws. I'm not sure if you want to go that route though as I think you are only replacing vacuum lines and nothing fuel related. Though I must say that if you want to replace all of them you will need to remove the secondary fuel rail since two vacuum lines go to the oil metering lines and another one is down low on the lower intake manifold.

You also might want to replace those old phillips head screws with some hex cap bolts and anything that looks sketchy and rusted, the last thing you want is drilling out a broken bolt.
I think the majority of the rats nest is held by m8 bolts and nuts. I have a lot of left overs from when I replaced mine.

I did this not too long ago so I know what you're going through. Take your time, look at all the diagrams and all the write-ups out there. I wish I could help, I'm about 45mins away but I will be kind of busy with the holidays and such.

The rat's nest is scary until you understand how the turbo system works and how to read the diagram. Just slow down a bit and study it.

Maybe it's because this is the first thing that I ever tackled on the car but I think that it's the easiest to get right.

Pick up a vacuum / pressure pump and test everything out while your in there.

Thanks twinside for the pics. Sephek that was a lot of info and thanks for the thought of coming out haha, that means a lot. Hope you and the other members all have a great holiday. James you are right haha. I'm just scared of how i'm going to put everything back together. Today wasn't very productive, i'll try to post up what I do tomorrow.

Hm on the acv can the sensor like things be removed? I got the 3 bolts off and cut the wires, but it seems like theres 2 or 3 sensor things connected inside the acv.

I don't recall if there are sensor things on the ACV but it sounds like you should slow down!

Either this or I'm misunderstanding you. You shouldn't have to cut any wires. Everything should unplug from the engine harness. If you cut things instead of unplugging you'll make a lot of extra work for yourself when you start putting it back together.


The vacuum hoses are another story. Your only choice may be to cut these in some cases. Trying to pull on them will break the plastic solenoid nipples.

One other thought. If you post pictures of what you are talking about I'm sure that we can all identify the "sensor like" stuff.

Happy Holidays,

James

Oh yeah I meant I cutted the vacuum hoses. Wrong choice of word by saying wire haha. I'll take a picture of the sensor like things when I get home.

If you have the stock hoses still on, twist them on the nipples. Twisting them will break them loose and they'll come right off.

This First picture is of the acv. I tried to circle the sensor things I was talking about in green
http://i44.tinypic.com/1znv5mf.jpg

This 2nd pic is about the solenoid rack which I still can't get off. The green circles in this picture are of the screws I took off. The one in red is where I see more screws, but not sure if it's related
http://i41.tinypic.com/357om8l.jpg

hey that color coded vacuum line diagram is exactly what i need for my 88na.

i have my haynes manual and some other black and white online manuals but i dont have enough 13b knowledge to actually follow their not so colorful and descriptive illustrations.

help?

I'm not sure if theres one for the fc, but I'll see if I can find one for you.

I'm trying to take off my bumper to give myself more room to work on the car without risk of damaging the bumper. I took off the 3 nuts on each side where the wheel liner is, But the bumper wont come off. I looked where a Front mount would be and Took of one screw. The one to the left is stripped or something it keeps spinning. Is it even related to taking off the bumper? Here's a picture of what i mean, I think previous owner broke it while painting bumper. I Still need help with the acv and solenoid rack from the pictures i posted above too.
http://i39.tinypic.com/fa4wmc.jpg

i see you broke a check valve.. green and white valve thing.. i have 3 of them for sale.. lmk if you are interested with a pm. as far as removing the bumper there are 4 screws on top, and 3 screws per side of the bumper which are up where the fender meets the bumper.. you must remove the fender liner and tires to see what im talking about. also you have to unscrew the undertray from underneath the bumper..

I bought the check vales from Dale Clark already, but thanks though. Yeah I took all the screws you mentioned but the undertray one. Is the undertray screw the one I have a picture of? Do you know how to take off the acv and solenoid rack?

Where to start... The ACV connectors are on the harness itself. There are 3 connectors in total, 2 black and 1 white. They are not hard to disconnect, you just need follow them to see where they lead and also don't worry about labeling them as there is no way to get them wrong.

The solenoid rack has several screws on the side. You will need to remove these if you want to remove the upper nest. The section below where the solenoids attach has 2 screws holding it together. I think you will have to remove them in parts. The ones you labeled green are only part of what holds the hard vacuum lines together but shouldn't be removed. Try to remove all the ones you can see on the sides facing the firewall and the ones you can see labeled in red.

Oh okay thanks Sephek. So for the ACV connectors I just have to follow the 3 connectors to the harness to disconnect them? Then take off the 3 screws and remove the vacuum hoses connected to the ACV to be able to remove the ACV itself? Should I put the screws i labeled in green back onto the solenoid rack?

rats nest out of the car
 

See if these pics help. This is the skeleton of a used rat's nest that I picked up from Japan2LA. Great source for used parts by the way ... he can be a bit slow to ship but always delivers good stuff.

http://www.paventi.net/~james/pics/9...ts_nest/as.JPGhttp://www.paventi.net/~james/pics/9...ts_nest/bs.JPGhttp://www.paventi.net/~james/pics/9...ts_nest/cs.JPG

You can definitely put the screws that you asked Sephak about back in. It's the ones in my second and third pic that you need to remove. Three of them face the front of the car and I think that the alternator has to come off to remove them. The other three face the firewall. I suggest a Philips tip with a 1/4" ratchet.

+1 on Dale's check valves ... good stuff!

Let us know if you figure the bumper out. I'm curious how it comes off.

Thanks so much James! That really helped me. I'm going to remove it tomorrow, I know where the screws you are talking about are now. You know in the 3rd pic where u circled the area of the screws, Are the to left most hoses(if they are called that) fuel lines? I'll will get back to you with the bumper, It's still stuck on my car, But i think it has to do with that last bolt i took a picture of. I can't get that one off at all because it broke off inside or something, keeps spinning.

Welcome ...

The shiny tubes / hoses? Yes, I think so. If they were water they would be corroded.

The fuel lines enter the engine bay under a triangle framed by the MAP sensor, brake booster and throttle elbow. There are three of them. One is fuel into the engine bay, one is return to the tank and the third is vapor from a carbon canister (near the tank). Just follow these to the rat's nest.

Another clue is that the fuel lines have heavy duty clamps on them compared to the water lines and that the hose is stiffer. Squeeze it with your fingers to check the stiffness.

Oh okay thanks James. I'll do that to test it. Unfortunately while taking off one of the hoses, I broke off the nipple to one of the solenoids(I think that's what it is) at the bottom. Its the 4th one from the left if you are standing on the drivers side when the nest is installed. Do you know how much that one solenoid would cost and where I could buy one? I'm so mad right now, everything is taking days.

Okay I did some research and I think I broke the egr solenoid, but I'm not 100% sure. It seems like the egr solenoid is useless? Do you guys have any idea?

Yep, there is so much EGR introduced by our intake and exhaust port overlap (at low RPMs) that Mazda didn't bother to include the EGR valve in the 1995 cars. Rumor is that they put it on the 93-94 cars just to show it for smog regulations. You need to leave the solenoid electricaly attached though or your ECU will complain by turning on the check engine light. Looking at the diagram that I attached earlier, you'll need to plug the hose that feeds vacuum from the UIM as well.

I suggest that you search here for used solenoid. Here's a specific example ... there are others.

You could call Ray at Malloy and buy them new ... about $60 each I think.

You could visit a junk yard and pick them up. I've never done this but I understand that many Mazda cars use the same solenoid.

I have several. I'll ship them for $25 each, just PM me.

All that said, if I were in your shoes I would:
- pick up a used rat's nest
- pick up a pressure / vacuum pump with a gauge on it
- learn how to test the solenoids ... pressure, vacuum and electrically
- test every solenoid that I had on the car or had purchased (even new)
- test every check valve ... new ones from Dale, the PCV and the little aluminum one used for the gas vapor canister purge

Check the attachments for a head start. Here's what's attached:

- a vacuum / pressure diagram. Great for understanding what to test with vacuum and pressure as well as to help understand how this mess works.
- a turbo solenoid only diagram ... helps to understand ... just don't be lazy and ignore the non-turbo solenoids
- a couple of pics of what the rack solenoids do with power and without.

Good luck!

So If I leave the solenoid with the broken nipple as is and cap off the nipple on the uim, the check engine light will not go on? Do I need to make a blockoff plate or anything like that? Oh one quick question, How do you guys take off hoses when they are hard as a rock? My exacto knife wont cut it at all, I have to keep sawing at it, but thats how I broke the nipple.

Just cap of the UIM nipple and see how you do. The ECU has a sensor on the EGR valve ... I think. I'm not sure if it will pick up on it not opening. Do a bit of searching and see what others have done. You don't need a block off plate.

I've found that a heat gun works well to soften the hoses and make them twist off. I've read a few posts where folks used a cigarette lighter. Before my heat gun I would shave (as opposed to cut / saw it) the rubber down slowly with an exact-o knife and then twist.

It seems kind of hard after some research. I'm just going to buy your solenoid. For the ratsnest screws towards the firewall. Did you have hoses blocking them? The clamps are faced downwards towards the tranny and rotor housings on my fd. Any ideas on how I can remove the clamps to get the hoses out of the way? Hm After I take off the solenoid rack and replace the hoses, Do I just replace all the remaining hoses on the vacuum diagram or is the solenoid rack the only hoses?

Too funny ... all of the things that I used to have fun with when I started. :) It gets easier and you end up with a bunch of cool tools in your garage after owning one of these cars for a few years.

OK, so get a good pair of small needle nose pliers, maybe a screw driver and some mechanics gloves. Put a couple of drops of penetrating fluid on top of the hose clamp in question and rotate the clips up to where you can get at them to open the clamp up. I do this by pushing / twisting one of the clamp tabs in the direction that loosens the clamp. Does that make sense?

Once you can open the clamp, slip it at least a half an inch from the end of the tube. Look at the pics that I posted. The hoses go fairly far over the end of the tubes.

Now use a pair of the pliers that Dale describes in this thread. See the pics in the first post. You need a pair of the needle nose pliers with the round end. These will make is so much easier to twist the fuel / water hoses, work a bit of penetrating fluid under them and slip them off.

Here's some help from Dale for the vacuum hoses.

I don't remember if I had anything blocking the screws but it wouldn't surprise me. Everything in these cars requires that something else be removed to get to it.

I would replace every vacuum / pressure related hose while I was in there. After 20 years it's not a bad idea to replace the FPD and fuel hose as well as the water hoses. The vacuum hose is cheap. The rest is a bit more $$$. At a minimum inspect it under a bright light and look for cracks, bulging, and other signs that it's ready to blow.

OKay thanks James, i will get to it soon. Unfortunately my Christmas break is over and it's school again so it's gonna take me a little longer. I'll keep you guys updated. And i'll tell you if i figure out the front bumper thing lol, still wont come off.

My downpipe came in and I was wondering if I should install it right now or wait until the vacuum hoses or done, Would it be easier to do when everything is taken apart right now? I pretty much juts have to take off the catback, cat, precat and then put the downpipe on right?

I've put a couple down-pipes on by just removing the down-pipe. There should be enough play in the cat and cat-back to allow for the DP's installation.

If you've removed the plumbing that connects to the air box it's definitely helpful in installing the DP. Besides letting light in so that you can see what you're doing a friend can help from above while you work from underneath or you can try a wrench from above rather than underneath.

One bit of advice. Use WD40 (or your favorite penetrating fluid) on the nuts about an hour before removing them and then again 30 minutes before. Do this with the four (five?) that bolt to the turbo and the two that go to the main cat.

sigh... I broke another thing. I believe it's the vacuum chamber. how do I remove it? its in the way of the oil filter neck. I still can't get the nest out like yourbpicture James. do you know how much vacuum chambers go for? ill post pictures to make sure in 5 mins

Here are the pictures:

http://i44.tinypic.com/jqqeci.jpg


Another angle of it

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ewjo7p.jpg

Yup that's your vacuum chamber! If I remember there are 2 probably 10 mm screws that hold it in. One is directly below it if you're facing it from the front bumper. If you reach under you can feel it. The other is where the oil filler neck bolts are. It comes in from the drivers side. Hopefully you didn't break the nipple off that chamber! Make sure you test it for leaks in case you think you did >< Use a lighter and lightly heat up vacuum hoses and then grab them with some needle nose and give it a light twist. I promise you'll break significantly less things :P

Oh man.. I knew it haha. When you say reach under do you mean from underneath the car? Will the other 10mm take off the oil filler neck too? I took the 2 bolts from the bottom of the oil filler neck but it's held in place from the side near the vacuum chamber. Is there anything else connected to the vacuum chamber besides that hose? I don't want ot break anything else during the process of taking it off. I think it is broken because I can see the straw looking part of the hose and i can stick it back into the chamber, unless thats normal. How much do rotary shops charge for this vacuum hose job? So far I spent almost 100 on things i've broken lol and I think hoses cosed 100-150 i forget. Am I still under what shops charge?

The vacuum chamber is in by 2 bolts and the vacuum hose. One is on the side by the bolt that holds the filler neck to that bracket, and the other you can reach from the top of the car. If you're facing the chamber from the front bumper, just reach underneath the front of it from the top of the car and inbetween your drive belts. You'll feel it :)

Thanks matt i'll try it again when I have no homework. But I do have another question. I took off my fuel hoses and I just noticed some of it leaked into the opening of my oil filler neck... Would an oil change take everything out or am I screwed =(. I don't think a lot dripped in but I know some got in there.

Fuel dilution of the oil seems to be a naturally occurring thing in these motors. I would change my oil if I were you but here's some food for thought.
http://www.fd3s.net/oil.html#GAS

Yep, Gas in the oil is not unusual.

I would change the oil to be on the safe side but like Mrmatt3465 said it's normal operation (tends to happen) while the motor is running. Basically if the gas thins out the oil too much it won't be able to properly lubricate the engine. I think that the consensus is that the rotor side seals are to blame. Personally I noticed that the fuel dilution was greatly reduced after cleaning my fuel injectors. I think that a good spray pattern with no drips really helps. That's another topic though.

What about volume of oil? Pull out the dip stick and check it. If it's gone way up from your last check, that's the gas ... and a sign that you should change the oil. Hmm ... these motors get really dirty. Did the gas wash any dirt into the oil filler neck and thus the engine? That's a big reason to change the oil.

The gas tank is sealed for emissions reasons and tends to build pressure. Leave the filler cap cracked open until all of the gas lines are re-attached. This will greatly (if not stop) the gas that leaks out when you disconnect them from the rat's nest.

One other thing. I was looking at my pictures. It looks like there might be more than three screws on each side of the rat's nest to remove it. If it's not obvious for you, PM me. I'll dissemble the extra one that I have at home to figure it out.

pictures of how to dissemble the rat's nest
 

Here's the side with water flowing through it ... front of the car I believe. Notice that only two of four screws hold the rat's nest together but a third has to be removed to allow it to slide apart easily. Basically that third screw head bumps into a tab when you're trying to slide the nest apart.

http://www.paventi.net/~james/pics/9...ts_nest/es.JPGhttp://www.paventi.net/~james/pics/9...ts_nest/fc.JPG



Here's the fuel side ... facing the firewall I think. It's strait forward. Just pull out the two screws shown.

http://www.paventi.net/~james/pics/9...ts_nest/gs.JPGhttp://www.paventi.net/~james/pics/9...ts_nest/hs.JPG

Thanks so much James for all your help! I really appreciate it. I'll get to this tomorrow. Will the solenoids slide out with the nest too or is it stuck on the bottom piece? I was trying to take out the solenoids too.

Oh I was reading about some type of fuel pulsation damper replacement or delete while doing the nest. What does that do and is it safe to remove? I found the guide on banzai http://www.banzai-racing.com/pd_elimination_how-to.htm

Welcome!

The solenoids should come out with the nest. Just note that the hoses that are attached to the solenoids can hold them in. The hoses that go to the rat's nest metal plumbing don't matter as this comes out with the solenoids but the hoses that go elsewhere do.

You basically need to 1) cut the solenoid noses that I mention above, 2) remove the rat's nest, 3) re-plumb the rat's nest with new vacuum hose and replace your solenoid and then 4) put the rat's nest back in. Well, there's a 3b step in there that involved replacing the vacuum hoses that go to other parts of the engine.

In both of the FDs that I've owned, I paid the piper and replaced the FPD. I'm not sure of the effects that removing it has. Just be sure that you understand what it does. As you modify these cars the further that you go from stock the less street-able they tend to be.

Maybe someone else will chime in about the FPD?

The FPD is intended to reduce fluctuations in fuel pressure near the injectors. Fluctuations in fuel pressure at the injectors could compromise an accurate tune(imperative to have a predictable tune in a turbo rotary).

That said, plenty of people run without one and it's functionality is somewhat debatable.
Also, they tend to break and catch FD's on fire and may-or-may-not be compromised by higher-than-stock fuel pressures.

So, at least replace the damn thing while you're in there. For peace of mind, if nothing else.