MattGold

iTrader: (109)

Quick question for all of you that rolled your stock front fenders.

I want to run a 18x10 +50 up front with a 275/35/18... which probably means I need to roll the fenders.

So, what did you end up doing with your fender liners?

I assume the connection points for the fender liners got a bit butchered - but will they still retain the fender liners? Did you zip tie it? Something else really cool that I don't even know about?

Thanks in advance - and pictures please!

cr-rex

iTrader: (114)

holy offset. why a +50 on a 10j?

for my car, the fender liners were fine. there are a couple clip points on the outside lip of the fender you can use because of the roll but it doesnt affect much at all. youll be fine without modifying them. just unclip it from the points that will be rolled on the fender and leave the rest as is.

MattGold

iTrader: (109)

That was my first reaction too. But a handful of guys are running that.

Yeah - ok. I get that. Cool. Any pictures by chance?

cr-rex

iTrader: (114)

sorry sir... i do not have any. the only pictures i may have are of the liners on feed fenders and i had to cut them to fit the outer lip.

i will have some pictures soonish once i get my car back from the body shop

silverTRD

iTrader: (37)

I'm running 17x10 +38 and rolled mine almost flat. It doesn't need anything special to hold the liner in place. It's snug, the rolled fender lip helps hold it in place.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

MattGold

I want to run a 18x10 +50 up front with a 275/35/18... which probably means I need to roll the fenders.

Most the 275/35-18 are too tall to work up front. It will rub the inside of the fender liner (where you see it in the engine bay) and the backside closest to the fender vent when you turn the wheel.

Most 265/35-18 will barely work if you don't have the add on stock mudflaps. They still might rub a bit in the spots listed.

Ideally, you are looking for a tire as close to 25" diameter as you can get up front.

_______________

As far as fitment with 18x10 +50. If you run max front camber (around -2.5 camber) for the track you won't even need to roll the fender lips under with a 275 or 265.

You will need around -1.5 rear camber to clear without any roll.

Still, I would roll the front lip under with no pull just in case you are ever turning sharp while going up a steep angle drive and it catches.

________________

So, to answer your question- I just removed the fender liner mounting hardware (including those metal clips you see in the pic below) and trapped the plastic liner between the fender and the two upper fender lip tabs that get rolled when I rolled them.

You don't need a pull up front with that +50 offset until you go with 295s or run no camber, so no need to go nuts up there. Just get the lip rolled under.




If you do go crazy and decide to go with a pull, it is best to use a cut-off wheel to remove the two upper fender liner mounting tabs since as you put force on the arch and above with the roller it the fender line will distort and also you will push an outline of the tabs into the top of the fender.

Then you will have to figure out a way to keep the plastic fender liner from hanging down...

__________________

By the way, you should relocate the body harness up above the frame rail so if you have too tall tires or are low you don't rub through it.

MattGold

iTrader: (109)

BLUE TII - I'm so glad you showed up. jkstill had mentioned your setup in a PM we exchanged.

So let me rephrase since, perhaps my premise is off.

I was planning on running an 18x10 +50 as that's what seemed to be the best / widest fit for the front from my research. However, if you asked "why?", it might change what I actually need.

I just finished up installing Chargespeed rear fenders (+50mm) and was planning on running 18x12 +25 with a 305/35. I wanted the fronts to match aesthetically, but also want to get as much tire to compensate for the rears. I didn't want to end up with a 305 our back and a 235 up front. I should also mention, this IS a street car...

So, from what I gleaned 18x10 +50 was the answer with a 275/35/18. Would I be better off going down to a 18x9.5 +50 with a 265/35/18? Overall diameter on that should only be 25.3 (according to his: Online Wheel and Tyre Fitment Calculator. Offset, Tyre Stretch and Speedo Error | Will They Fit)



It seems no one makes a 265/30, 275/30 or 305/30 besides Hoosier, and because of the aforementioned street use... that's not really an option.

Also, thanks for the advice on body harness and wedging the fender liner...

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Your further description of where you are going with your car certainly helps!

First, tire and wheel fitment.

So, from what I gleaned 18x10 +50 was the answer with a 275/35/18. Would I be better off going down to a 18x9.5 +50 with a 265/35/18?

265/35-18 is recommended by all tire manufacturers to run on a 10" wide wheel.

265/35-18 is recommended by some tire manufacturers to run on a 10.5" wheel.

Some auto manufacturers (Porsche and BMW both) recommend and supply new cars with 265/35-18 tires of a brand where the manufacturer DOES NOT recommend on a 265/35-18 on a 10.5" wide wheel.

265/35-18 on 10.5" wide wheel will have a slight visual stretch to it.
265/35-18 on a 10" wide wheel will have a very square sidewall look to it.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

For a pure street car I wouldn't recommend over -2 degrees camber up front and since it sounds like you are mostly going to be doing a lot of braking from high speed I would recommend no more than -1 degrees camber up front.

I didn't want to end up with a 305 our back and a 235 up front. I should also mention, this IS a street car...

You must be fairly comfortable having body work done to the FD to cut/weld/paint it for the Chargespeed fenders, so the question is how much work do you want to do to the front fenders in order to maintain as much handling balance as possible?

With simply rolling the front fender lip under (no pull) you should be able to run that 18x10 +50 with 265/35-18 and just -0.5 to -1 degrees negative camber up front.

The next size up tire you can easily run on the front of an FD is the 285/30-18. This will take a lot of work to fit up front with just -1 degrees negative camber.

If you trim the upper two fender mounting tabs and roll the lip under and then do a big pull with a fender roller and fenders on the car you might get it to fit.

If you take the fenders off the car, trim the two upper fender liner mounting tabs flush with the rest of the fender lip, have the fender arch English wheeled for maximum pull, put the fenders back on and repair/repaint the English wheel damage you will get them to fit.

At this point you could get some +30mm wide front fenders, prep/paint and put them on the car... That will get you to 285/30-18 on 18x10.5 +50 no problem.

But, on any of the fitments above you have just managed to fit the top of the tire into the fender arch.
You have the whole front outer edge of the tire sitting outside the front fender which is terrible for aerodynamics.

On my ~250rwhp FD I can REALLY feel the aerodynamic drag of my 18x11 +45 with 295s at higher speeds compared to my more conservative fitments.

Sadly, 18x8 +50 and 235/40-18 would be the best thing up front for high speeds without having worse than stock braking.

MattGold

iTrader: (109)

Does the 18x10 +50 really stick out that far from the front fender? I seem to recall seeing a few pictures of this setup (who knows, maybe your car!) and it didn't appear to look out of place.

I think I'm slowly convincing my self of 18x9.5 +50. I'll run a 265/35 and roll the fenders just to be safe, tuck the fender liners and move the body harness...

I will update as things start to materialize.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Does the 18x10 +50 really stick out that far from the front fender? I seem to recall seeing a few pictures of this setup (who knows, maybe your car!) and it didn't appear to look out of place.

No, 18x10 +50 is not bad at all, but it does stick out past the bumper fender. Just letting you know as for max straight line performance nothing will top a skinny up front.



There is a lot of pics of 18x10 +50 because that is the 7.5" Back Space CCW wheels everyone used to run.

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

285/30/18 +50 fits better up front. Offset sounds high but you need it for clearance with that width. I have a car in my shop right now with that setup all the way around. I can post pics later. As for the rolling, I use the Eastwood roller. Heat the paint up carefully with a heat gun so it doesn't crack. You'll no longer be able to bolt up the fender lines completely, so I tuck them under the little flaps where the original screws went.

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

Here. 18x10 + 50 with 285/30/18 all round. Doesn't really rub unless you really bottom out the suspension.

SA3R

I have rolled out ("pumped" in Australian language) front fenders and the plastic inner liners still fit fine. You won't have any issues with the liners.

neit_jnf

iTrader: (17)

badass arriving to a track or meet in a Hummer pulling a trailered FD

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

Yea I got a kick out of it.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

My old VR FD outside IRP with 18x10 +50 and 285/30 all around:

MattGold

iTrader: (109)

You guys got me all insecure now!

Do you think a 305/35/18 and a 285/30/18 would look right?

I'm NOW considering:
Rear: 18x12 +25 with a 305/35/18
Front: 18x10 +50 with a 285/30/18

I don't mind having a bit of rake in my setup... I just don't know if it's going to look off balance.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Its all opinion on what "looks right".

To me FDs with wider rear fenders or wheels or tires looks out of proportion, but my ideal of proportion is "how to get around cones in a parking lot fastest, or around that kart track or up that hill climb."

Bigger or wider rear wheels or tires or fenders make the FD look more "muscle car". Not a bad look, I am just biased toward hating understeer with a passion.

Chargespeed rear fenders are a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY classier way to widen the rear compared to say the old Pettit flares since they acknowledge and follow the factory FD lines. No offense to those that destroyed beautiful FDs with Pettit flares or Rocket Bunny kits or whatever (JK, how could that statement not offend).

Well, my opinion probably isn't helping here.

What would you most like your set-up to be good at?

If it is straight line work then the fatties in the back and the skinnies up front will be appropriate.

MattGold

iTrader: (109)

You're absolutely right. Anything aesthetics is completely subjective.

Again, the car is for the street, so it's naturally going to see more straight line performance (just a fact of life). Yes, understeer could be an issue, but I also have the option of running softer rear shocks, stiffer front bar, etc if it was really noticeable.

I actually tend to agree with you on your widebody opinions, and thus why I went with an option that maintained the stock body lines as naturally as possible.

I think I got it. I'll be sure to keep you posted.

wthx100

Is that +50 on the front as well?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

It's a square setup. Each wheel and tire is identical to the other

MattGold

iTrader: (109)

That's actually a great picture. I think it also shows why I kinda like the rear to be a bit bigger. Even though they are identical, the rear seem smaller under the fenders. Just an optical illusion, sure. But still.

TomU

iTrader: (11)

Another option is wheel spacers for the rear. This would give you the ability to go square if you were to ever track/autox it. Of course it wouldn't give you 20 cm more width in the back tho, if that is important to you

Edit: take that back. Spacers probably require longer studs which is a real PITA if you don't already have them

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

That's actually a great picture. I think it also shows why I kinda like the rear to be a bit bigger. Even though they are identical, the rear seem smaller under the fenders. Just an optical illusion, sure. But still.

Yes, the FD has more side profile in the rear so there is the illusion of more rear mass and consequently the same diameter wheel/tire looks smaller than it does in the front where the FD has a very slim side profile.

Luckily the FD can handle a taller rear tire than front tire without having to cut up the unibody, so this is serendipitous for you.

TomU Another option is wheel spacers for the rear. This would give you the ability to go square if you were to ever track/autox it. Of course it wouldn't give you 20 cm more width in the back tho, if that is important to you

Edit: take that back. Spacers probably require longer studs which is a real PITA if you don't already have them

I am assuming the Original Poster wants to run big tires out back to put down big power on the street/strip/runway without having to be so judicious with throttle application as if he was running a square set-up as restricted by stock front fenders and no camber (so a limit of 18x10(.5) +50 with 265/35-18).

Yes, you can run 18x10.5 +50 with 285/30-18 up front, but it requires 1 to 1.5 degrees negative front camber.

Yes you can run 18x11 45 with 295/30-18 up front, but it requires 2 to 2.5 degrees negative front camber.

Also, on the 285 and 295s the side of the tires sticks out past the front bumper below the point the bumper meets the fender and so impacts aerodynamics greatly.

When are racing to 180-200mph this impact to aero starts to make a big difference.