Profec B Install Question
04-07-03, 08:14 AM
#1
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Profec B Install Question
I followed the instructions on Rob Robinette's website for installing the Profec B and I think a major instruction was left off. I am not talking about his instructions for the Profec A, but the short instructions for the Profec B.
No where in his instructions does it state to remove and cap the second control hose to the wastegate that the ECU uses to control the wastegate. Only after reading the Profec A instructions did I learn this.
Here is where I need your help... With the ECU control hose connected and the Profec B connected, I could not dial the boost down to anything below 10psi. Even with the Profec off, I was getting 12psi or higher boost. I am hoping that removing the ECU line will fix things. Do you think this is my problem???
Also, I ran into fuel cut twice trying to tune it last night. How bad can this hurt the engine? Do you guys think I could have damaged the Profec having it "fight" the ECU?
No where in his instructions does it state to remove and cap the second control hose to the wastegate that the ECU uses to control the wastegate. Only after reading the Profec A instructions did I learn this.
Here is where I need your help... With the ECU control hose connected and the Profec B connected, I could not dial the boost down to anything below 10psi. Even with the Profec off, I was getting 12psi or higher boost. I am hoping that removing the ECU line will fix things. Do you think this is my problem???
Also, I ran into fuel cut twice trying to tune it last night. How bad can this hurt the engine? Do you guys think I could have damaged the Profec having it "fight" the ECU?
04-07-03, 10:40 AM
#2
Well move your knock ensor to the engine hangar bracket and you wont hit fuel cut again.
Im not sure about the ecu gumming you up. I ran my profec b with the PMC and never had a problem.
Are you sure that you still have the pill in the 4" line?
If it's not there controlling boost can be a problem but usually it's getting no boost if that the case, just a thought. Make sure that you have the dip switches set right. it's up/down/up/down
Good luck.
Im not sure about the ecu gumming you up. I ran my profec b with the PMC and never had a problem.
Are you sure that you still have the pill in the 4" line?
If it's not there controlling boost can be a problem but usually it's getting no boost if that the case, just a thought. Make sure that you have the dip switches set right. it's up/down/up/down
Good luck.
04-07-03, 11:06 AM
#3
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe my fuel cut was coming from too much boost and not a knock sensor. The ECU will cut fuel if too much boost for a given RPM. Moving the knock sensor won't help IMO.
I had to remove the 4" line completely for the Profec B so how could I still have a pill in the line? Not sure what you meant by that comment because the Profec has you run independent lines to the stepper motor.
My dip settings are up-down-up-down.
I had to remove the 4" line completely for the Profec B so how could I still have a pill in the line? Not sure what you meant by that comment because the Profec has you run independent lines to the stepper motor.
My dip settings are up-down-up-down.
04-07-03, 12:08 PM
#4
Lives on the Forum
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Lorenzo, California
Posts: 14,716
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
It sounds like you've got it right now. Yes, you have to plug up the wastegate outflow and the hose back to the wastegate solenoid. You won't have the 4-inch line with pill anymore.
As far as hitting fuel-cut, be more conservative with your tuning. Start low and slowly increase the dial, it doesn't take much. Also, when you change the attach (mild to sharp), it affects the boost level.
The first step to tuning should be to turn the boost down most of the way and adjust your sharpness first. Adjust it until you see your boost slightly wavering at steady WOT, then turn it back to "mild" a hair. Now you can SLOWLY raise the boost level until you are hitting 10 psi.
As a safety pre-caution, turn the hi-boost **** all the way down. You don't want to blow your motor because the hi-boost got selected by accident. For your info, the hi-boost **** starts 3psi higher than the lo-boost ****.
As far as hitting fuel-cut, be more conservative with your tuning. Start low and slowly increase the dial, it doesn't take much. Also, when you change the attach (mild to sharp), it affects the boost level.
The first step to tuning should be to turn the boost down most of the way and adjust your sharpness first. Adjust it until you see your boost slightly wavering at steady WOT, then turn it back to "mild" a hair. Now you can SLOWLY raise the boost level until you are hitting 10 psi.
As a safety pre-caution, turn the hi-boost **** all the way down. You don't want to blow your motor because the hi-boost got selected by accident. For your info, the hi-boost **** starts 3psi higher than the lo-boost ****.
04-07-03, 12:41 PM
#5
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rynberg, so do you think my ECU was fighting my Profec B by leaving the second control hose on the wastegate?
I was trying to follow the conservative tuning method, but couldn't dial down the boost at all even with all the ***** turned down on the Profec. Even with it off, I was getting 12 to 13psi over 4500 until fuel cut kicked me out.
Thanks for the tips.
I was trying to follow the conservative tuning method, but couldn't dial down the boost at all even with all the ***** turned down on the Profec. Even with it off, I was getting 12 to 13psi over 4500 until fuel cut kicked me out.
Thanks for the tips.
04-07-03, 02:39 PM
#6
Lives on the Forum
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Lorenzo, California
Posts: 14,716
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally posted by whitet777
Rynberg, so do you think my ECU was fighting my Profec B by leaving the second control hose on the wastegate?
I was trying to follow the conservative tuning method, but couldn't dial down the boost at all even with all the ***** turned down on the Profec. Even with it off, I was getting 12 to 13psi over 4500 until fuel cut kicked me out.
Thanks for the tips.
Rynberg, so do you think my ECU was fighting my Profec B by leaving the second control hose on the wastegate?
I was trying to follow the conservative tuning method, but couldn't dial down the boost at all even with all the ***** turned down on the Profec. Even with it off, I was getting 12 to 13psi over 4500 until fuel cut kicked me out.
Thanks for the tips.
It sounds like something IS wrong with your installation. From your description, it doesn't sound like the Profec is opening the wastegate for some reason.
04-07-03, 03:33 PM
#7
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only one way to tell... I will take off the ECU control line tonight and test it. Unfortunately, we have a blizzard right now, so no driving until it melts. Thank you Wisconsin.
Trending Topics
04-07-03, 04:08 PM
#8
Originally posted by whitet777
I believe my fuel cut was coming from too much boost and not a knock sensor. The ECU will cut fuel if too much boost for a given RPM. Moving the knock sensor won't help IMO.
I had to remove the 4" line completely for the Profec B so how could I still have a pill in the line? Not sure what you meant by that comment because the Profec has you run independent lines to the stepper motor.
My dip settings are up-down-up-down.
I believe my fuel cut was coming from too much boost and not a knock sensor. The ECU will cut fuel if too much boost for a given RPM. Moving the knock sensor won't help IMO.
I had to remove the 4" line completely for the Profec B so how could I still have a pill in the line? Not sure what you meant by that comment because the Profec has you run independent lines to the stepper motor.
My dip settings are up-down-up-down.
Sorry I coudlnt be any more help. I was using it two years ago and sold it about a year ago. So my info was no good.I was thinking that the 4" line stayed. My apologies. But it's like I said I never had any problems with my PMC interfering with the profec controlling boost. So i must have done something right
Goo dluck.
04-08-03, 12:14 AM
#10
Z06 powered FD
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by rynberg
As a safety pre-caution, turn the hi-boost **** all the way down. You don't want to blow your motor because the hi-boost got selected by accident.
As a safety pre-caution, turn the hi-boost **** all the way down. You don't want to blow your motor because the hi-boost got selected by accident.
04-08-03, 09:14 AM
#13
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
From TulsaTurbo.com
I take absolutely no credit for this at all...This is a direct copy and paste from www.tulsaturbo.com
I have no idea how long I will host these photos on my site but if you don't see them you can drop me an e-mail and I will mail them to you.
David
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:50:34 -0500
From: rotary@mediaone.net (Carlos Iglesias)
I may not be an elephant but my memory isn't that bad! ;-)
>> 1. Where's the fuel regulator vac hose located?
Don't bother. Just buy a vacuum T, and plumb the smaller diameter hose off of either of the nipples on the upper intake manifold. These nipples are where the stock blowoff valve and where most people connect their boost gauge to.
>> 2. Where did you mount your control box?(stepping motor?)
The manual says to mount it somewhere relatively cool, so I mounted it just in front of the cooling fan relays rack which is inside my cool air induction "space". If you'd like, I can scan a picture and send it.
>> 3. Where do the other two hoses on the control box go?
I'll call the nipple on the Profec, "Y", "E" and "G" after the letters of GReddy logo on the stepper motor which the nipples are in-line with.
The stepper motor's "E" nipple receives boost pressure from the nipple off of the primary (front) turbo's compressor outlet (the front part of the turbo "Y" pipe). What you need to do is remove the short line that's between the front turbo outlet nipple and one of the two wastegate (WG) nipples. The short hose that you need to remove is the one that contains the "wastegate orifice/pill." Connect the hose from nipple "E" (the center large diameter nipple) to front turbo's outlet nipple.
You can now remove the line that goes to the other WG actuator nipple. Put a vacuum cap in the line you just removed to keep the vacuum system from getting contaminated. Now vacuum cap off and zip cinch (or SECURELY seal off) either ONE of the two WG nipples on the actuator which you're not going to use.
The "G" nipple on the Profec gets connected to the left over WG nipple, and provide the actuating pressure to open the WG.
In summary here's how it works:
The smaller diameter line provides manifold pressure info to the controller via the stepper motor (Nipple "Y").
While building boost, the pressure (from the front turbo outlet nipple) being received by the unit (nipple "E") is vent out to atmosphere by the relief nipple on the bottom of the stepper motor. -> the WG remains closed.
When the preset boost level approaches, the boost pressure is rerouted out to the WG actuator via nipple "G." Since the WG actuator is now open on only the nipple that goes to the Profec, the pressure in the actuator builds to the point at which it overcome the closing force applied by it's internal spring -> the actuator begins to open (about 7 lbs.). At about 10 lbs., the WG spring is fully compressed, and the WG is full open. The Profec regulates the WG to maintain the desired boost levels.
>> 4. Any other tips?
Make sure to securely zip-tie or secure all of the associated nipple and hoses. Unfortunately, if the system's pressure integrity is broken, the wastegate will not open. Long story short, the system "Fail-safes" to BUY-A-NEW-ENGINE.
Along the same line, start to program the system as if the WG ISN'T going to operate properly. By that, I mean expect the worst, just incase. After trying it out a few time, then build confidence in it. Being too aggressive off the bat, might buy you some really great performance for a few seconds, followed by a very expensive post climax.
GReddy has a great programming info page.
I've always been able to program the Profec on the first or second try while in 4th gear. In 3rd gear, it's not as easy to program. Of course, running through 7500 rpms in 4th gear can make for some really interesting highway driving. Kids, please don't try this at home ;-).
From: "Jason"
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:10:48 -0500
PRofec B installation:
1. Remove air box and intake piping so you can access the waste gate.
2. remove the 4 inch piece of hose going from the turbo to the wastegate. This tubing contains the pill which you dont need now.
3.mount the stepper motor or little black box somewhere around the headlight under the hood.
4. run a piece of hose from the turbo to the "IN" on the black box, then from the "OUT" to the waste gate. It just acts as a bridge between the two. Then reinstall the air box and intake hoses.
5. run the power cable coming from the black box inside the car near the drivers side kick panel. I took it through the steering wheel boot or follow through where your boost gauge hose goes into the cockpit.
6. Mount the the Profec B somewhere where you can access the dials on it. I velcrowed it to the kick panel to the left of the clutch.
7. Now take the vaccum tubing for the boost gauge and cut it near the back of the Profec and add a T connector. Take a small piece of tubing and go from the T connector to the back of the Profec B.
8. Find where you want to add the power to the Profec B and there ya have it. Make sure to keep the settings all the way down at first. That would be the LOW setting. then play with it and have fun.
Hope this helps. Any questions email me at jason1@infinet.com.
_
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 05:09:56 PST
From: "kyle krutilek"
You may want to add to step 2 and disconnect factory bleeder solenoid hose from the second nipple on the wastegate actuator. Plug this nipple on the actuator.
Also add that you need do nothing to the pre-control actuator. Many people have y'd the profec to both the pre-control and wastegate, not good.
____
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:24:45 -0500
From: brad barber (bradrx7@swbell.net)
> Does anyone know which Dip Switch setting is best on a Profec B
> to minimize spiking? Also, where are most people setting the Balance
> ****? Mine boost seems to "bounce" if I raise the balance much above
> Mild, although I thought that the Sharp setting would make reduce lag and
> hold more steady??
Dip switches...
1 ON
2 OFF
3 ON
4 OFF
Looking at the unit .. Set the balance at 4 o'clock, the low at 2 o'clock, and the high at 10 o'clock. You can tune from there to get the boost you want. This works great on my car and Kyle Krutilek's. I have to credit Kyle with beta testing these settings, BTW.
I have no idea how long I will host these photos on my site but if you don't see them you can drop me an e-mail and I will mail them to you.
David
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:50:34 -0500
From: rotary@mediaone.net (Carlos Iglesias)
I may not be an elephant but my memory isn't that bad! ;-)
>> 1. Where's the fuel regulator vac hose located?
Don't bother. Just buy a vacuum T, and plumb the smaller diameter hose off of either of the nipples on the upper intake manifold. These nipples are where the stock blowoff valve and where most people connect their boost gauge to.
>> 2. Where did you mount your control box?(stepping motor?)
The manual says to mount it somewhere relatively cool, so I mounted it just in front of the cooling fan relays rack which is inside my cool air induction "space". If you'd like, I can scan a picture and send it.
>> 3. Where do the other two hoses on the control box go?
I'll call the nipple on the Profec, "Y", "E" and "G" after the letters of GReddy logo on the stepper motor which the nipples are in-line with.
The stepper motor's "E" nipple receives boost pressure from the nipple off of the primary (front) turbo's compressor outlet (the front part of the turbo "Y" pipe). What you need to do is remove the short line that's between the front turbo outlet nipple and one of the two wastegate (WG) nipples. The short hose that you need to remove is the one that contains the "wastegate orifice/pill." Connect the hose from nipple "E" (the center large diameter nipple) to front turbo's outlet nipple.
You can now remove the line that goes to the other WG actuator nipple. Put a vacuum cap in the line you just removed to keep the vacuum system from getting contaminated. Now vacuum cap off and zip cinch (or SECURELY seal off) either ONE of the two WG nipples on the actuator which you're not going to use.
The "G" nipple on the Profec gets connected to the left over WG nipple, and provide the actuating pressure to open the WG.
In summary here's how it works:
The smaller diameter line provides manifold pressure info to the controller via the stepper motor (Nipple "Y").
While building boost, the pressure (from the front turbo outlet nipple) being received by the unit (nipple "E") is vent out to atmosphere by the relief nipple on the bottom of the stepper motor. -> the WG remains closed.
When the preset boost level approaches, the boost pressure is rerouted out to the WG actuator via nipple "G." Since the WG actuator is now open on only the nipple that goes to the Profec, the pressure in the actuator builds to the point at which it overcome the closing force applied by it's internal spring -> the actuator begins to open (about 7 lbs.). At about 10 lbs., the WG spring is fully compressed, and the WG is full open. The Profec regulates the WG to maintain the desired boost levels.
>> 4. Any other tips?
Make sure to securely zip-tie or secure all of the associated nipple and hoses. Unfortunately, if the system's pressure integrity is broken, the wastegate will not open. Long story short, the system "Fail-safes" to BUY-A-NEW-ENGINE.
Along the same line, start to program the system as if the WG ISN'T going to operate properly. By that, I mean expect the worst, just incase. After trying it out a few time, then build confidence in it. Being too aggressive off the bat, might buy you some really great performance for a few seconds, followed by a very expensive post climax.
GReddy has a great programming info page.
I've always been able to program the Profec on the first or second try while in 4th gear. In 3rd gear, it's not as easy to program. Of course, running through 7500 rpms in 4th gear can make for some really interesting highway driving. Kids, please don't try this at home ;-).
From: "Jason"
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 00:10:48 -0500
PRofec B installation:
1. Remove air box and intake piping so you can access the waste gate.
2. remove the 4 inch piece of hose going from the turbo to the wastegate. This tubing contains the pill which you dont need now.
3.mount the stepper motor or little black box somewhere around the headlight under the hood.
4. run a piece of hose from the turbo to the "IN" on the black box, then from the "OUT" to the waste gate. It just acts as a bridge between the two. Then reinstall the air box and intake hoses.
5. run the power cable coming from the black box inside the car near the drivers side kick panel. I took it through the steering wheel boot or follow through where your boost gauge hose goes into the cockpit.
6. Mount the the Profec B somewhere where you can access the dials on it. I velcrowed it to the kick panel to the left of the clutch.
7. Now take the vaccum tubing for the boost gauge and cut it near the back of the Profec and add a T connector. Take a small piece of tubing and go from the T connector to the back of the Profec B.
8. Find where you want to add the power to the Profec B and there ya have it. Make sure to keep the settings all the way down at first. That would be the LOW setting. then play with it and have fun.
Hope this helps. Any questions email me at jason1@infinet.com.
_
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 05:09:56 PST
From: "kyle krutilek"
You may want to add to step 2 and disconnect factory bleeder solenoid hose from the second nipple on the wastegate actuator. Plug this nipple on the actuator.
Also add that you need do nothing to the pre-control actuator. Many people have y'd the profec to both the pre-control and wastegate, not good.
____
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 22:24:45 -0500
From: brad barber (bradrx7@swbell.net)
> Does anyone know which Dip Switch setting is best on a Profec B
> to minimize spiking? Also, where are most people setting the Balance
> ****? Mine boost seems to "bounce" if I raise the balance much above
> Mild, although I thought that the Sharp setting would make reduce lag and
> hold more steady??
Dip switches...
1 ON
2 OFF
3 ON
4 OFF
Looking at the unit .. Set the balance at 4 o'clock, the low at 2 o'clock, and the high at 10 o'clock. You can tune from there to get the boost you want. This works great on my car and Kyle Krutilek's. I have to credit Kyle with beta testing these settings, BTW.
04-08-03, 09:21 AM
#14
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
So let me ask something...I am looking at the Profec B picture...it looks like there is a nipple on the back of the control unit that mounts in the cockpit...Does that mean you have to run vac hose through the firewall? Dat wud kinda suk 
04-08-03, 09:25 AM
#15
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
apneablue, thanks for the post. I found most of that information also posted on Rob Robinette's site and Scuderinis (sp?)
Yes there is a nipple on the back of the Profec that comes off the intake manifold. I had to run a hose through the firewall or you could tap off the one already present for a boost gauge if you have one installed.
I will let the forum know if removing the second wastegate controller hose fixed my problem as soon as all this new snow melts.
Yes there is a nipple on the back of the Profec that comes off the intake manifold. I had to run a hose through the firewall or you could tap off the one already present for a boost gauge if you have one installed.
I will let the forum know if removing the second wastegate controller hose fixed my problem as soon as all this new snow melts.
04-08-03, 09:25 AM
#16
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
I just read through the instructions and it seems that is the case...I don't no vac hose running through my firewall...I have a defi electronic boost gauge so that means I would have to T-off the manifold then run that vac hose through the firewall.
What boost controlers don't requre any vac hose running to the control unit inside the car?
What boost controlers don't requre any vac hose running to the control unit inside the car?
04-08-03, 06:21 PM
#19
Lives on the Forum
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Lorenzo, California
Posts: 14,716
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally posted by apneablue
I just read through the instructions and it seems that is the case...I don't no vac hose running through my firewall...I have a defi electronic boost gauge so that means I would have to T-off the manifold then run that vac hose through the firewall.
What boost controlers don't requre any vac hose running to the control unit inside the car?
I just read through the instructions and it seems that is the case...I don't no vac hose running through my firewall...I have a defi electronic boost gauge so that means I would have to T-off the manifold then run that vac hose through the firewall.
What boost controlers don't requre any vac hose running to the control unit inside the car?
I believe the higher end controllers (AVC-R) use an electronic boost signal. But hey, I have two MAP sensors already...
04-08-03, 07:49 PM
#20
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
This is a little off topic but does any ever use a Pop Off Valve to deal with boost creep and spike issues? I know usually porting the wastegate is the way to do it...but does a POV help?
04-08-03, 08:29 PM
#21
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I braved the sale encrusted roads to try the profec without the second wasteage control hose connected to the stock location. It works!
With the Profec off, I get about 7psi. With it on I can now tune the low setting up from all the way counterclockwise.
One question though about the Profec... has anyone else heard a quick, repetitive ticking noise when the stepper motors are working? One other thing, the balance **** more mild or more sharp helps control boost dips?
With the Profec off, I get about 7psi. With it on I can now tune the low setting up from all the way counterclockwise.
One question though about the Profec... has anyone else heard a quick, repetitive ticking noise when the stepper motors are working? One other thing, the balance **** more mild or more sharp helps control boost dips?
04-09-03, 10:55 PM
#23
Full Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got the Profec tuned tonight to read 11-9-10.5 all the way to redline. Couldn't be happier. Well, I guess I could be if I had a PowerFC to get rid of that stupid fuel cut so I could run 13psi or more of boost on these nice cold days.
04-11-03, 06:59 PM
#25
Lives on the Forum
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: San Lorenzo, California
Posts: 14,716
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
8 Posts
Originally posted by Chameleon
Just installed mine last night. Works like a charm! So you adjust the balance to minimize transition dips?
Just installed mine last night. Works like a charm! So you adjust the balance to minimize transition dips?
Be careful, because adjusting the balance control has a BIG effect on the target boost level. Make sure you lower the boost level **** after making changes to the balance control.
BTW, Defi link series gauges kick *** for setting boost levels. The 45-second record feature is great for seeing your "true" boost pattern, and not what your eyes can catch as you are grossly exceeding the speed limit.....