Power Windows Problem and One Possible Solution
08-19-10, 06:04 PM
#1
Sprinkle on cereal. Yum!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: So. CA
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Power Windows Problem and One Possible Solution
My windows were starting to get slow coming up. I followed that other thread about cleaning it but it did not fix my intermittent "stuck up", "stuck down", and sometimes "stuck in the middle" problem. I really thought it was due to getting stuck on grime but it was not. So I started doing some diagnosis and after going as far as taking the motor apart to clean the armature and brushes, I've come up with one very good piece of advice and an almost HOWTO guide on what I did:
THE GOOD PIECE OF ADVICE: When testing any component for functionality, always ALWAYS ALWAYS test it against battery 12V if it so requires 12V... do not rely on a control switch even if it is showing 12V to the device. Why? Because what if the control switch is the problem?
Even though my window motor was seeing 12V right up to the connector while using the window switch, it would not move up/down. You could even hear the motor trying to move. Any sane person would suspect the motor was the culprit and replace it. I was about to junk my window motor until I decided to run it directly to the battery wherein it actually violently came alive. After much back and forth, i came to the conclusion that the switch works (makes contact) but that such contact is iffy and doesn't provide enough juice to power the motor. Here is what I did. Maybe it'll work for someone else too:
1. Pull out the driver window control panel:
2. Unscrew the controls from the housing:
3. Remove the switch covers (there are 2, 1 per switch rail) holding the switching mechanical parts. Each cover should have 4 little tabs.
4. These pieces should fall out (be careful so they don't fly everywhere).
5. Clean out the contact points on the switch rail
6. Inspect the cross pieces (their shape leads me to believe that insufficient contact with the switch rail contact points is what causes the windows to get stuck). In other words, it contacts a teentsy bit, enough to see 12V when you test with a multimeter but not enough to carry the kind of current necessary to juice a high torque window motor. That is my theory at least.
7. There is probably another way to do this part and to be honest, I can't say without a doubt that what I did has much more to do with my success than just cleaning out the gunk around the contacts and sanding it a bit. If in doubt, I would advise you to stop here, install everything, and see how the switch works. If it doesn't work too well, proceed to do what I did here:
I try to reduce the dependency on the spring and ball bearing by "adjusting" the curvature of the cross. The cross has a bent v shape to it. I believe that the long side bends in such a way that you don't get maximum contact when the white block is at maximum travel, which is about halfway down the long side. It is too dependent on the force of the spring inside that block to push the cross down onto the contacts. Throw in the fact that there is massive play between the white block and the frame it sits in and it's very possible that the cross never makes a good clean contact.
NOTE: instead of what I did, you could probably get away with adding an additional ball bearing inside the white block prior to the spring. So it would look like this: White Block->ball bearing->spring->ball bearing->cross. This should add a few millimeters of additional travel, possibly helping put pressure on the cross.
So what I did was I made the cross straighter and less V like. In theory, this means that your switch does not have to move as far down/up to get the cross points to engage. You only run the risk that if you flatten it out too much, your contact point might be too close and prone to "accidentally turning on". You must be careful how you do this part and double check the switch mechanism with a multimeter after you reassemble everything.
8. Test your cross on a flat surface to make sure that it won't contact when in the "inactive" state.
9. The longer side of the cross should actually be much flatter and this should provide better contact.
10. Repeat for both rails (driver and passenger switches). Install in order shown (install the 2 springs last after the white cover has been installed):
11. Check for continuity using a multimeter to ensure switch works right. There should be no continuity until the square white blocks on the rails move into position. You need to manually move them with your other hand (not shown in picture).
12. Lastly, test the switch on the windows before reinstalling it. My results were pretty good. I no longer have to jab my finger deep down or pull really hard on the switches to get them to activate and the motors are far more alive than usual, especially when the car is not even running.
THE GOOD PIECE OF ADVICE: When testing any component for functionality, always ALWAYS ALWAYS test it against battery 12V if it so requires 12V... do not rely on a control switch even if it is showing 12V to the device. Why? Because what if the control switch is the problem?
Even though my window motor was seeing 12V right up to the connector while using the window switch, it would not move up/down. You could even hear the motor trying to move. Any sane person would suspect the motor was the culprit and replace it. I was about to junk my window motor until I decided to run it directly to the battery wherein it actually violently came alive. After much back and forth, i came to the conclusion that the switch works (makes contact) but that such contact is iffy and doesn't provide enough juice to power the motor. Here is what I did. Maybe it'll work for someone else too:
1. Pull out the driver window control panel:
2. Unscrew the controls from the housing:
3. Remove the switch covers (there are 2, 1 per switch rail) holding the switching mechanical parts. Each cover should have 4 little tabs.
4. These pieces should fall out (be careful so they don't fly everywhere).
5. Clean out the contact points on the switch rail
6. Inspect the cross pieces (their shape leads me to believe that insufficient contact with the switch rail contact points is what causes the windows to get stuck). In other words, it contacts a teentsy bit, enough to see 12V when you test with a multimeter but not enough to carry the kind of current necessary to juice a high torque window motor. That is my theory at least.
7. There is probably another way to do this part and to be honest, I can't say without a doubt that what I did has much more to do with my success than just cleaning out the gunk around the contacts and sanding it a bit. If in doubt, I would advise you to stop here, install everything, and see how the switch works. If it doesn't work too well, proceed to do what I did here:
I try to reduce the dependency on the spring and ball bearing by "adjusting" the curvature of the cross. The cross has a bent v shape to it. I believe that the long side bends in such a way that you don't get maximum contact when the white block is at maximum travel, which is about halfway down the long side. It is too dependent on the force of the spring inside that block to push the cross down onto the contacts. Throw in the fact that there is massive play between the white block and the frame it sits in and it's very possible that the cross never makes a good clean contact.
NOTE: instead of what I did, you could probably get away with adding an additional ball bearing inside the white block prior to the spring. So it would look like this: White Block->ball bearing->spring->ball bearing->cross. This should add a few millimeters of additional travel, possibly helping put pressure on the cross.
So what I did was I made the cross straighter and less V like. In theory, this means that your switch does not have to move as far down/up to get the cross points to engage. You only run the risk that if you flatten it out too much, your contact point might be too close and prone to "accidentally turning on". You must be careful how you do this part and double check the switch mechanism with a multimeter after you reassemble everything.
8. Test your cross on a flat surface to make sure that it won't contact when in the "inactive" state.
9. The longer side of the cross should actually be much flatter and this should provide better contact.
10. Repeat for both rails (driver and passenger switches). Install in order shown (install the 2 springs last after the white cover has been installed):
11. Check for continuity using a multimeter to ensure switch works right. There should be no continuity until the square white blocks on the rails move into position. You need to manually move them with your other hand (not shown in picture).
12. Lastly, test the switch on the windows before reinstalling it. My results were pretty good. I no longer have to jab my finger deep down or pull really hard on the switches to get them to activate and the motors are far more alive than usual, especially when the car is not even running.
