Shad Laws

Hello-

Ya know, there is a way to DIY your own "cheap bastard full manual" conversion. There are basically two steps:

1. Make the attachment of the input shaft rigid to the pinion shaft. There's a "flexbile link" here, which is used as a "torque sensor" for power steering. If you pull the rack apart, these parts will be pretty obvious... get a good welder to weld them together and you're done.

2. Open up the hydraulic pistons. The simplest way is to put little breather caps on the fittings to each side of the stock piston - that's two $1 parts from McMaster-Carr. Make sure you drain them of power steering fluid first :-).

Take care,
Shad

artowar

iTrader: (1)

Damian, how's the Maval steering effort with wide racing rubber?

GooRoo

iTrader: (4)

I have a slightly different opinion of this... I think there is a big difference between looping the line and taking off the belt.

At one point trying to take the P/S pulley off I blew it up. So for a period of a couple weeks while I got another pulley I ran without the A/C and P/S belt.

To me that was the worst of all. I couldn't feel the road because I was being buffered by the pump, and it was harder to turn then wheel because not only was there was no pump pressure helping me, I was having to push against it. It was not a good experience. I got a pulley back on there ASAP. At least in the normal P/S system it's easy to turn the wheel, even if you lose some feel.

Because of that experience I was hesitant to go to the looped line on my car. Howard convinced me that I had the worst possible experience with the belt deal and that I should try the loop line anyway.

Comparing the belt removal to what I have now with the loop line and there really isn't any similarities. I have much better feel since the pump is gone, and it's easier to steer since I don't have to work against the pump. On the street below 5mph it is harder to turn, but on my street tires it's not brutal. Once I'm above 5mph it really isn't an issue for me.

Oh, I've also driven Damian's track car both on and off the track and I would concur that it is the best for track driving, but his huge tires make it worse than what I have on the street. However to this point it hasn't been worth the $ to me switch to have my rack fully converted.

To be more clear, if I have to rank them for track driving (1-10 scale):

No P/S belt - 1
Worse feel than normal (slightly) and very hard to turn wheel

Normal system: - 5
Reduced feel, but easy to turn wheel

Looped line - 8.5
Much better feel than normal, hard to turn wheel below 5mph

Complete Conversion - 10
Slightly better feel than Looped, hard to turn wheel below 5mph

damian

iTrader: (2)

basically read Andys post above (gooroo), he does a very accurate description of it all...much better than mine :-)

damian

iTrader: (2)

it is pretty hard from 0-5 mph when the track tires are already warmed up (and im a wimp) ...i mean if im not moving and i have to turn the wheel, i really have to tug on it...so usually i just start soem forward motion before i start turning the wheel. :-)

but once you are moving at a good speed then its not that much effort, obvisouly more than with ps, but the bit more effort is well worth the added road feel....if you look at some of my videos you can see that in the middle of some of the turns the steering wheel will make small jitters, im not talking like big see-saw motion from me correctiing, im talking small blip one direction, very quickly....that is the road imperfections being transimited to the wheel...i love it. :-)

damian

iTrader: (2)

That is very cool....but my deal is that many times i my track car I am driving 150+ mph towards a wall of tires or cement before i have to turn and I am not about to trust myself with the steering rack changes LOL

...but i play wiht the brakes all teh time LOL hahahah

damian

iTrader: (2)

ahh so my theory may be correct huh, ...the ps is better kept for autoX application?

Shad Laws

Hello-

Yah... but the failure mode is pretty benign. If your welds fail, then it will go back to working just like the regular power steering setup. The steering wheel will feel a bit sloppier, but you shouldn't lose control. Heck, I'd be more concerned of something letting go inside the transmission or differential... those are nasty failures as they tend to lock the rear wheels :-(.

Take care,
Shad

PDViper77

iTrader: (9)

I just called to get a price for the conversion and it is 279.00 plus shipping. So I am sending my rack out next week.

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

pdviper when you get it back take some pictures for me! im interested in how it looks!

PDViper77

iTrader: (9)

Ok, but it is going to take them 4 - 6 weeks because I am doing a "custom" steering rack. When I get it back I will take some pics.

axr6

Amongs you racers some of you, I trust, must have checked the weight of the removed PS parts (pump, lines, cooler etc).

Could yuo please give me a number? That would be my primary incentive to remove my PS if I could save a worthwhile number of lbs.

While at it, has anyone checked the weight of the AC components that could be removed, as well?

When I raced my FD in '94 and '95 weight removal was my primary goal and the car responded incredibly to the reduced weight. Would like to go that direction with my present FD as well, even though I am not racing it now. Just so much more fun to drive a light car....

Thanks

Albert

amp

iTrader: (50)

ac is about 25lbs for the entire system...
if i recall correctly the ps is about 5..

amp

iTrader: (50)

pics..

axr6

Thanks for the info.

Remove... or, not to remove.....???

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

the weight and the draw it puts on the motor its puts isnt really worth taking it off if you drive it often. i as many people dont drive this car on a daily basis so i can deal with it out cuase i dont have to drive it everyday. i removed it to get more feedback from the car... not for the weight savings as its minimal. and viper whats "custom" mean lol are you changing the rack itself and putting a different one to change the gearing? id be interested if you wanna share what your thinking.

wanklin

iTrader: (2)

This thread provided me with precisely what I was looking for. I will be pulling my rack and sending it in next week, thanks Damian. What type of turnaorund should I expect?


Rob

wanklin

iTrader: (2)

Update:
shipped my rack out today. Shipping was about $11 form VA to Ohio.

Price for conversion= $279 minus $60/$40? core charge. The new rule is that they must receive your core before they will ship a unit out to you. You are required to remove all boots, joints, clamps etc before you send them your core. When I called they gave me a RGA# to write on the package, and once they verify that my rack is good they will pull a unit off the shelf and ship it out.

Removing the boots can be a slight PIA, but I figured out a pretty good method for removing them. If you try to muscle the boots off you will rip them and the narrow end of the boot will probably still not move past the grooves which hold them in place. Shim the narrow ends of the boots out with 3 equally spaced mini flathead screwdrivers and push the boots outward without twisting them. Once you get the boot past the grooves you can start spinning them and applying some elbow grease to free them from the rack.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Honestly, after a week you won't even notice anymore with the Maval converted rack, unless you're at an absolute dead stop. Even w/ my 275/40 khumo track tires it's no big deal. I haven't tried autocrossing yet, but since you're actually moving during an autocross, I suspect it'll be fine. If you can't deal w/ it for street driving, I suggest availing yourself of the local gym.

EZFD

just a question after reading through, if i remove the pump and the lines, and then loop the lines on the rack back into each other, should i remove all the fluid in the rack or leave it in??

axr6

I'd suggest removing most of the fluid, except a very small amount to lube the piston in the rack. If you leave too much fluid you will be forcing it back and forth, pumping it with the piston and it will introduce additional steering effort to do so.

Albert

Edit: what I suggest for you to try is to remove the pump belt, drain the oil at the cooling loop rubber hose coupling in front of the radiator. Then, remove the two hardline connections from the rack itself at both sides of the piston. Turn the wheel back and forth to expell most oil and place a piece of rug over the rack fittings with a couple of rubber bands to allow breathing and catch any more oil coming out.

Drive the car, test it to see if you like the feel. If not, all you have to do is reconnect the two rack fittings, fill the pump with oil, turn the wheel back and forth, start the engine, turn the wheel back and forth again to purge the air from the lines, and your back to your old power steering.

EZFD

thanks for he tip

PDViper77

iTrader: (9)

Maval Rack Review:
After driving the car for 800 miles with my converted rack, I would never go back to power steering ever again. The only complaint that I have is parallel parking but anything over 2mph isn't too bad.

ReadyKW

I just did this conversion. I found another steering rack that I had sent to Maval, and simply swapped the manual rack in (stored my PS rack and pump in case I ever change my mind). First impressions: this car does not need PS.

I have owned or driven four other "sporty" cars with manual steering: a 72 911, 65 Corvette, 58 Austin Healey, and 88 911. The Rx7 is the 2nd easiest. Only the 72 911 beats it IMHO. I also have 255/35-18 up front. I am a weakling and can easily make 90 degree turns from a stop with one hand on the steering and one on the shifter.

When I finished, I weighed the PS pump, cooling line, pulley, bolts that attach the pump to the bracket, hoses etc on my bathroom digital scale. I included a half quart of oil to compensate for the fluid (system was at this point totally drained). I came up with 12 lbs.

jimlab

Er, thanks Jim?