Is it possible to build a system monitor for the FD?
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,083
Likes: 4
From: california
check out this device in the JC Whitney catalog . (DriveRight Car Chip monitor). it plugs into the connector and monitor most engine functions and trouble codes, but its for 96 and up cars if we could mod this thing it would do everything we need.
Jeff
Jeff
Super Snuggles
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 10,091
Likes: 34
From: Redmond, WA
Originally Posted by DaleClark
I imagine Mazda might have available documentation on the protocol and interface - I still plan on calling Mazda and seeing if anyone there can help. Worth a call 
Originally Posted by DaleClark
Well, some of the legwork has been done -
http://www.technosquareinc.com/MDM100Z.pdf
Techtom Japan has made a box called the MDM-100Z. It's most of what I'm thinking of - it plugs right in to the diagnostic port and shows TONS of information. Bad part is it's $430 - ouch! But, at least someone has made something like this.
I'm also wondering if there's an aftermarket US made scan tool that would do the trick. Some of the newer scan tools are VERY reasonably priced. It's just hard to find the older stuff, as there's TONS of OBD-II scan tools out there
Dale
http://www.technosquareinc.com/MDM100Z.pdf
Techtom Japan has made a box called the MDM-100Z. It's most of what I'm thinking of - it plugs right in to the diagnostic port and shows TONS of information. Bad part is it's $430 - ouch! But, at least someone has made something like this
.I'm also wondering if there's an aftermarket US made scan tool that would do the trick. Some of the newer scan tools are VERY reasonably priced. It's just hard to find the older stuff, as there's TONS of OBD-II scan tools out there
Dale
There's that darn monitor. I was going to buy over a year ago but forgot where I saw it (adding it to the list now).
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,626
Likes: 2,733
From: Pensacola, FL
Look in the shop manual - it's right there. The DT-S1000 code reader interfaces to the plug, lets you run simulation tests, monitor voltages, all KINDS of stuff. It's shown in use all throughout the engine/fuel injection section of the shop manual.
Dale
Dale
Update, my dealership friend said that some of the mechanics there have the expensive 'universal' scanners. If I can get in there in the next week or two, we'll see what kind of info they can get from my car.
List of Ford autos that use the MECS connector, some are OBD-1, others are OBD-2. The Probe is listed also, although it doesn't specify whether the MECS connector is strictly a 17-pin thing, or if there are multiple styles of MECS connectors (similar to a DIN plug, there are lots of varieties of them).
http://www.actron.com/media/categori...128_CP9131.pdf
According to this site, they have a scanner that connects to the " 1989-1995 Probe/ Mazda MECS "
http://www.nexiq.com/catalog/pro_det...ME=&group_id=1
Here is a MECS connector for sale, looks like it will connect to our box: http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/otc3305-19.html
Does anyone read Japanese? This site came up in a google search for "MECS mazda": http://www.kmecs.com/
-s-
List of Ford autos that use the MECS connector, some are OBD-1, others are OBD-2. The Probe is listed also, although it doesn't specify whether the MECS connector is strictly a 17-pin thing, or if there are multiple styles of MECS connectors (similar to a DIN plug, there are lots of varieties of them).
http://www.actron.com/media/categori...128_CP9131.pdf
According to this site, they have a scanner that connects to the " 1989-1995 Probe/ Mazda MECS "
http://www.nexiq.com/catalog/pro_det...ME=&group_id=1
Here is a MECS connector for sale, looks like it will connect to our box: http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/otc3305-19.html
Does anyone read Japanese? This site came up in a google search for "MECS mazda": http://www.kmecs.com/
-s-
Check this out; info from pages 15-16:
http://www.tradervar.com/SUPER%20Aut...50_english.pdf
-s-
http://www.tradervar.com/SUPER%20Aut...50_english.pdf
Ford Historic (OBD I)
Since 1984, Ford used several different types of powertrain control modules (PCM). Refer to “On-Board Diagnostics” on page 1-2. With the proper adapter cables, your tool will be able to read these systems as well.
Use the Battery Power cable to provide 12V to the tool for all systems.
(...)
MECS (Mazda Electronic Control System)
MECS vehicles (1988 –1995) use either a 6-pin (with pigtail) or a 17-pin DLC. The 6-pin MECS adapter cable and jumper wires (P/N 9131) are used to connect the tool to both DLCs. Both adapter cables are also available through your dealer.
Since 1984, Ford used several different types of powertrain control modules (PCM). Refer to “On-Board Diagnostics” on page 1-2. With the proper adapter cables, your tool will be able to read these systems as well.
Use the Battery Power cable to provide 12V to the tool for all systems.
(...)
MECS (Mazda Electronic Control System)
MECS vehicles (1988 –1995) use either a 6-pin (with pigtail) or a 17-pin DLC. The 6-pin MECS adapter cable and jumper wires (P/N 9131) are used to connect the tool to both DLCs. Both adapter cables are also available through your dealer.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR
Originally Posted by DaleClark
As I found out above, the only wires going to the ECU are MEN, TEN, and FEN - that's it.
Yeah, the trickiest part is figuring out the communcation protocol, commands that the ECU will expect, etc. I imagine Mazda might have available documentation on the protocol and interface - I still plan on calling Mazda and seeing if anyone there can help. Worth a call.
Yeah, the trickiest part is figuring out the communcation protocol, commands that the ECU will expect, etc. I imagine Mazda might have available documentation on the protocol and interface - I still plan on calling Mazda and seeing if anyone there can help. Worth a call
.Did you ever get in touch with anyone who could help? I'm thinking it's probably a simple serial stream (like OBD-II) so it should be easy to decrypt if we have any idea what they codes coming out of it actually mean.
Hello Dale - What happened??
Dale/Everybody
did you guys ever make any progress on this?
Do you think a Mazda dealership would part with their tester for a reasonable price - if they have been replaced by more "universal" scan tools??
did you guys ever make any progress on this?
Do you think a Mazda dealership would part with their tester for a reasonable price - if they have been replaced by more "universal" scan tools??
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
From: Perth, Australia
On a similar (but not quite same) topic, has anyone thought of making a tool to plug into the stock wiring harness?
At the moment, when troubleshooting turbo solenoid problems, I'm using the sewing needle method. I get sick of double checking I'm in the right connector pin.
It would be nice to have a board of switches, that plugs into the stock harness at the ECU (when you remove the ECU of course) so that you could easily toggle the various solenoids on/off.
I'm sure you could extend it to some sort of micro controller based system that could read from sensors, but that would probably involve a significant amount of work. I think it would be easier to reverse engineer the Mazda tool.
At the moment, when troubleshooting turbo solenoid problems, I'm using the sewing needle method. I get sick of double checking I'm in the right connector pin.
It would be nice to have a board of switches, that plugs into the stock harness at the ECU (when you remove the ECU of course) so that you could easily toggle the various solenoids on/off.
I'm sure you could extend it to some sort of micro controller based system that could read from sensors, but that would probably involve a significant amount of work. I think it would be easier to reverse engineer the Mazda tool.
jeffrored92, toggling the solenoids on or off is an interesting idea, but what would it show you? What would happen if you flip the switch and the solenoid didn't do anything, how could you tell the difference?
Personally, I think that most of the people who are good with electronics have already ditched the stock ECU, or are planning to.
-s-
Personally, I think that most of the people who are good with electronics have already ditched the stock ECU, or are planning to.
-s-
Originally Posted by jeffrored92
On a similar (but not quite same) topic, has anyone thought of making a tool to plug into the stock wiring harness?
At the moment, when troubleshooting turbo solenoid problems, I'm using the sewing needle method. I get sick of double checking I'm in the right connector pin.
It would be nice to have a board of switches, that plugs into the stock harness at the ECU (when you remove the ECU of course) so that you could easily toggle the various solenoids on/off.
I'm sure you could extend it to some sort of micro controller based system that could read from sensors, but that would probably involve a significant amount of work. I think it would be easier to reverse engineer the Mazda tool.
At the moment, when troubleshooting turbo solenoid problems, I'm using the sewing needle method. I get sick of double checking I'm in the right connector pin.
It would be nice to have a board of switches, that plugs into the stock harness at the ECU (when you remove the ECU of course) so that you could easily toggle the various solenoids on/off.
I'm sure you could extend it to some sort of micro controller based system that could read from sensors, but that would probably involve a significant amount of work. I think it would be easier to reverse engineer the Mazda tool.
:-) neil
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
You can get the ecu connecter from Maurice (Canzoomer guy). We use them to build piggy back ECUs for RX-8s. Same connector as the RX-7. E-mail him at maurice@harddata.com. Tell him you'd like to buy a 122 pin ecu connector. Tell him David Beale sent you. Then I'm sure to get in trouble.
Seems to me this project, while useful and interesting, would be easier and probably less expensive, if you just bought an Apex'I PFC, and data logger. Then you can use your laptop to access all that data, even as you drive. Total cost would be about $1400 not counting the laptop.
Seems to me this project, while useful and interesting, would be easier and probably less expensive, if you just bought an Apex'I PFC, and data logger. Then you can use your laptop to access all that data, even as you drive. Total cost would be about $1400 not counting the laptop.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,626
Likes: 2,733
From: Pensacola, FL
I've really done most all I can on the topic - I'm not an EEE, and I don't understand serial data signals, especially how to reverse engineer an interface. I would love to have something like this in my tool arsenal, though!
I'm not sure if the PFC keeps the functionality of the scan tool or not, though.
Dale
I'm not sure if the PFC keeps the functionality of the scan tool or not, though.
Dale
OK - what I really wanted to know is - has anyone asked a Mazda dealer if they would sell their DST 1000 ? and how much?
or
has anyone found out if the "generic" engine diagnostic scanners (snap-on for example) were ever sold with cards that were programmed for the Third Gen?
don't everyone speak at once...
thx
or
has anyone found out if the "generic" engine diagnostic scanners (snap-on for example) were ever sold with cards that were programmed for the Third Gen?
don't everyone speak at once...
thx
Snap On MT2500 Scan Tool
For Dale Clark (and who ever else cares)
this is the note I got back from my buddy who used to design scanners for Snap-on, I was asking him about the value of buying a snap-on MT2500 "red Brick" scanner off Ebay - they are about $300 - plus the cartridges ($100?)
here is his reply:
Heard back from Val, it sounds like you may not want to bother with the Scanner.... she looked through the database and it looks like for 93/94 RX7's the only capabilities the scanner has are:
1. Auto Code Read
2. Functional Tests
- O2 Sensor Test
- Switch Test
- Base Timing Check
Sometimes even if the factory scan tool has a capability (such as datastream), Snap-on would choose not to do it either because the info was not released by the mfg, or it was not worth reverse-engineering 'cause it's a low-volume application (............like an RX7?).
Since you have the service manuals they probably describe a way to manually retrieve the codes, and I don't know what value the tests are (....unless you're having a problem with that particular system, then they're Real valuable !)....
Anyway, might want to re-consider.
If you still want to pursue this.... stay away from the latest-latest (black cartridge) ones since those are flash-updateable on the Snap-on dealer's truck only (instead of mail-in update.... or an update that can be 'traded' on EBay). Apparently corporate got tired of creating a secondary market on EBay for people trading their old stuff when they got new updates, so they made it where you have to go to the dealer.... pretty stupid of them if you ask me. Musta' been some MBA who made the decision.... oh, sorry.
OK - he's making fun of my MBA - but my question to Dale is : Does the MT2500 do everything that the factory Mazda scan tool can do? Or can the factory tool do more than described above? Since you've read the factory manual cover to cover, you should know...
thx
Jim
this is the note I got back from my buddy who used to design scanners for Snap-on, I was asking him about the value of buying a snap-on MT2500 "red Brick" scanner off Ebay - they are about $300 - plus the cartridges ($100?)
here is his reply:
Heard back from Val, it sounds like you may not want to bother with the Scanner.... she looked through the database and it looks like for 93/94 RX7's the only capabilities the scanner has are:
1. Auto Code Read
2. Functional Tests
- O2 Sensor Test
- Switch Test
- Base Timing Check
Sometimes even if the factory scan tool has a capability (such as datastream), Snap-on would choose not to do it either because the info was not released by the mfg, or it was not worth reverse-engineering 'cause it's a low-volume application (............like an RX7?).
Since you have the service manuals they probably describe a way to manually retrieve the codes, and I don't know what value the tests are (....unless you're having a problem with that particular system, then they're Real valuable !)....
Anyway, might want to re-consider.
If you still want to pursue this.... stay away from the latest-latest (black cartridge) ones since those are flash-updateable on the Snap-on dealer's truck only (instead of mail-in update.... or an update that can be 'traded' on EBay). Apparently corporate got tired of creating a secondary market on EBay for people trading their old stuff when they got new updates, so they made it where you have to go to the dealer.... pretty stupid of them if you ask me. Musta' been some MBA who made the decision.... oh, sorry.
OK - he's making fun of my MBA - but my question to Dale is : Does the MT2500 do everything that the factory Mazda scan tool can do? Or can the factory tool do more than described above? Since you've read the factory manual cover to cover, you should know...
thx
Jim
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 15,626
Likes: 2,733
From: Pensacola, FL
Yeah, that's just a basic scanner. Sounds like it duplicates the jumper wire/watch the flashing Check Engine Light feature, and the switch test feature (which I've been working on finding a hack to test that out). The Mazda tool actually does a datastream and reads info straight from the ECU in real time.
That's good to know that the Snap-On tool doesn't do it, though. Keeps someone from buying it and hoping that it will.
This probably wouldn't be hard to reverse engineer, if you had the DTS-1000, an EE, and someone fluent with serial communications handy. I'm 0 for 3 there, unfortunately.
Dale
That's good to know that the Snap-On tool doesn't do it, though. Keeps someone from buying it and hoping that it will
.This probably wouldn't be hard to reverse engineer, if you had the DTS-1000, an EE, and someone fluent with serial communications handy
. I'm 0 for 3 there, unfortunately.Dale
...the tool Mazda uses now that replaces the DTS-1000 and a couple of the other diagnostic tools is the NGS Star tester from Hickok.
http://www.hickok-inc.com/ngs/ngsintro.html
http://www.hickok-inc.com/ngs/ngsintro.html