Silverstone

Scotty:
Encouraging story. My problem does seem very much the same as yours. Even though there seemed to be a problem with my plugs I've never know the car to be difficult to start. It always fires right up. Once the engine is warmed up nicely the white smoke goes away. I'm going to just keep topping it off as you did. It never seems to get very low on coolant so far, just a couple of inches. This coolant problem just needs to go away. I'm going to have a hard time explaining to a buyer that he just needs to top off the coolant every morning

This is crazy. In the last few months I've been pouring money into this car. It all started with me deciding that this was the year to get my air conditioner all straightened out. Then the 5th gear synchro problem followed by the clutch replacment. Now this. Somebody just shoot me! I know my wife is about to.

bajaman

Silverstone - It is good that you acknowledge your limited mechanical/repair experience as part of this thread. A lot of guys who only have a pair of Vise-Grips and a 6 pc socket set think they are ready to go do a rebuild...lol! It sounds like you have lined up some good help hopefully. Just to recap a lot that has already been said in various posts, it is important to understand that ANY sort of block-weld treatment is indeed just a temporary fix. I had a devil of a time getting my heater core unplugged, for example. There are also some people that have reported having difficulties getting a block-sealed engine apart, I think there are even some rebuilders that WON'T touch one. You seem to have a relatively minor leak (if at all) and thus you are a good candidate for a (relatively) inexpensive rebuild. The 'bad' part of all this is that it takes just as much time and effort to pull an engine and fix a mild problem as it does a major problem. You just save some bucks on some parts is all, i.e. you don't have to replace trashed rotors and/or rotor housings or irons. That is about it.
You should definitely do the coolant gasses test to help you finally and for sure evaluate your leak possibility. Keep in mind that there is a big difference between a car that is "smoking" at start up due to normal condensation vs a car that is burning coolant. Condensation is just water vapor and it dissipates very rapidly. Burning coolant has a thicker, heavier consistency and tends to hang around a bit longer.
Just for grins I just went out and pulled the AST cap and filler neck caps off my FD and started it and let it run a minute or so. No bubbles. Not one. Whereas when I knew I had a leaky 'O' ring it would bubble immediately, which is what you report.
But there are also a host of other causes which can exhibit similar symptoms, the main ones being ANY hose or hose connection that is leaking. There have been threads on here about people that were just about ready to pull their engines and then they replaced one or two or ALL of their hoses and it fixed their problems. Some of these hoses are little BASTARDS to get to, some are wrapped in protective sleeves that can conceal small leaks.
You will likely want to replace these hoses anyway. I know, it is expensive and a hassle, but I did it to mine when I replaced my engine. Every single hose is brand new in the entire engine bay. Coolant, vacuum, pressure lines...the works. I would not hesitate for a second to hop in my car and circumnavigate the U.S., that is the confidence I have in it now.
You are kind of at a crossroads regarding your FD, we understand that. Every one of us that have owned these cars for 3, 5, 7, 10, or 13 years even have ALL been at that point where you scream to the heavens, "WHEN IS ENOUGH, ENOUGH???"
And sometimes you just have to walk away for a month or two (because these cars can't or shouldn't be anything resembling a daily driver, or a REQUIRED daily driver anyhow) and think about the cost-to-benefit ratio of the car. Does it bring you the joy to offset the pain? Are other bills being let go just to pay for FD expenses? Has your wife or girlfriend 'cut you off' with the ultimatum of, "Okay...it is the car or ME!"
These are the things to ask oneself when looking at spending a bunch of money and time on these cars.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

If coolant is shooting out of the exhaust then there's no reason for any more testing.

Also if the engine hasn't been overheated there's a good chance all the housings are good and the problem is simply a bad o ring so I'd take the car to Rick's Rotary shop and have him do a rebuild for you. I'm a long way from CA but I've heard good things about this shop and owned a car with one of his rebuilt engines that was really good.

Good luck

Silverstone

Thanks for all the wise words from everyone. Well I just started it up this morning to sort of ponder the situation. It started right up with no hesistation. Water vapor came out the exhaust for the 1st 3 to 5 min. and then was completely clear. Anyone know where I can get the exhaust gas check of the coolant? Right now I feel that I most likely have the very beginnings of a coolant o-ring leak, perhaps minor right now but will only get worse. I have inspected the hoses fairly well and all are tight with clamps in place. Can't see any coolant leaking from them at all. Here is the brief history of my deciding to sell it. Just after I got the AC fixed I decided this was a good year to sell it since everything worked now and it was in excellent condition. Decided to replace it with a new Pontiac Solstice GXP 2007 model. Then the clutch and tranny needed replacing after a friend blew out my 5th gear synchro. Got that done and figured since my new car isn't going to be delivered until Fall at best I would start out with a high price $18,500 and just see how it goes. I figured I could get at least $15K for it later on if it doesn't sell over the summer. Now I'm not sure what to do. I could just keep it and not fix it and wait, or fix it and sell it for maybe 15K or not fix it and probably only get around 8K for it. After I get a good estimate I'll decide, but I will verify with the exhaust gas in coolant first.

Silverstone

I looked into this SteelSeal and it looked possibly worth trying. The only thing is that is says right in their literature online that it is NOT for fixing broken seals and is only for cracked heads and blocks. But then it does say it works for blown head gaskets so maybe it would work for a blown coolant seal. I've got a call into them to ask them what they think.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Yep. That crap gets into everything. Don't expect your heater core to remain unblocked ........... among other things.

Sounds like you have not tried to remove all of the air from the system as I advised earlier.

BANNOR

You have a nice low milage FD. Dont mess it up by pouring anything other than what is supposed to be in the cooling system into it. Sell it as a car that needs a new engine if it needs one. Or get a reman and be done with it.

*RX007*

iTrader: (4)

i know karack and he does great work but if i recall he has a big waiting list, you should contact him and really fair prices

Silverstone

I tried. Apparently his waiting list is so long he isn't returning calls. I sent him a PM and left a phone message 3 days ago.

Silverstone

Let me see, after 8 top offs, wouldn't the air be out by now? After seeing those champagne bubbles coming up and seeing a dark sludge in my overflow tank on the dip stick, I figure it's just grasping at straws at this point. Besides I used the burbing technique in the 3rd gen FAQ. I really don't think it was an air bubble or even the caps at this point. I put my old caps back on. They are the better Mazda ones and don't seem worn at all. I had my AST replaced only 4000 miles ago and it came with a new cap. Karack is apparently too busy to even return my call to him.

BTW I called the SteelSeal people and the guys was so anxious to see if his product worked on rotaries that he's sending me a bottle for free. He says there are no suspended particles in the stuff and that there is an antedote if anything gets clogged, White Vinegar. I've been exploring all possibilities from Block weld to LS1 conversion.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Sorry I tried to help. I guess that the difficulty of my suggestion was just too much for you to try. Good luck with your rebuild.

Silverstone

Dear Adam,

I humbly beg your forgiveness. It was a good suggestion but actually what I'm planning on doing is bringing it into my local Sacramento shop and have them thoroughly investigate all the hoses, thermostat and yes, any possible air bubbles. I want the professionals to completely rule out all these other possible causes of losing coolant before I get too deep into the re-build idea or even the SteelSeal. I'm going to wait until my free bottle of SteelSeal arrives and give that to the shop as well to use if they do find the o-ring is bad. Even this steel seal product is difficult to use and involves removing the thermostat (don't even know where it is), possibly bypassing the heating core if that is possible, and there is also a step where you are supposed to remove one of the spark plugs to remove backpressure I guess. All this stuff is beyond my meager oil changing skills. I've had bubbles in my cooling system before after changing coolant and they always resolved themselves by topping off a couple of times and none of those times did I lose coolant out my overflow tank. There's something else going on here and I'm just hoping its a kinked hose somewhere but as I said before with the other symptoms it would be too much luck. But really your opinion is appreciated!

Silverstone

Ok I have made my final decision based on my detailed observations.
1. I am not going to use the Steel Seal product unless the problem gets worse.
2. I am going to continue to sell the car as-is.

Some observations:
1. I have had the car for 5 yrs but have put only 4000 miles on it as a weekend fun car.
2. I believe the car has had the problem since I bought it and it was not noticed by me because I never drove the car in hot weather or with the air conditioner on. The AC didn't work when I first got the car and that was also the reason I never drove in hot weather.
3. I have noticed that during a recent cool spell, I have been able to drive it and not get the coolant loss.
4. I recently got the AC fixed and so have been able to drive in hot weather and with the AC on and this is when the problem first presented itself.
5. I believe the motor is still in need of a rebuild but at this point it is not critical to get it fixed. If I see any coolant on the ground or get the low coolant buzzer, I can simply top it off with coolant as I've been doing. No overheating problem has been observed. The coolant seal probably has been compromised but is still a minor leak and is not causing any loss of power or allowing coolant to pass into combustion chamber. With the way that I drive the car I could possibly put off any major repair for years if I wanted to.
6. If I don't sell it right away, I will just hang on to it and get a full rebuild sometime down the line in 1 or 2 years.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

had some problems with my voice mail, i have a bit of a list of PMs to sort through but i will get back to you shortly.

CantGoStraight

The black sludge in the recovery tank is a pretty good sign the seal has failed and combustion gases are getting into the coolant system. I did the block weld treatment on my first engine and after three years on the new motor am suffering no ill effects from doing it. I followed all the directions and the how to ion the forum and the only thing I'd do over is find away to heat up the engine without the thermostat as it took for ever to get all that damn soap concentrate outta the system before I added the block weld. I got 14 months more out of the motor and didn't baby it like I should have brfore total failure.

Silverstone

Well another change. Karack responded to my desperate plea for help and I was able to speak to him (Ben) on the phone. He has been recommended by some in this forum and seems to really know what he's doing. It's a couple hours drive for me but his quotes for rebuild were the best yet so if my coolant seal is blown, I'm just going to have him fix it for me. The backlog is about 4 - 5 wks but that does not bother me. I've got lots of time as the 7 isn't my daily driver. First I'm going to set up an appt for him to diagnose my problem and then if it needs a rebuild, I'll have him do it when he is available. I'm so glad I found Karack! Thanks to everyone for pointing him out to me.