Hey, just to let you guy's know that Chris has built a couple of motors for me in the past, one in my 1st gen car and the one in my 3rd gen now. I've had good power and made 368 rwhp last time on the dyno and the motor is going strong. I hope you figure out your problem with your car soon.

 

What is the maximum HP anyone has ever put down with a Cat in place? My car put down 274 (@ the wheels) with the A/C on (no cutout at WOT on mine) and in 3rd gear. Cam told me that with the A/c cutting out like it should and in 4th gear I would have been @ 300 Hp to the ground. I am runnning a 130000 miles stock Cat.

 

368 rwhp. That's more like it!
Chris builds good motors, no question. This one is a good headscratcher. Could I put on aftermarket coils, and a midpipe? Sure. Would it help HP? Probably. But the issue remains that configured as it is, it should be making 30-40 more. If the car didn't drive as well as it does, the diagnosis might be easier, but I had the car out today, and it drives perfectly. I dunno....

 

I have read that the racing beat in a little restrictive compared to some other exhausts. I suggest you research for a better flowing exhaust that suites your needs and go get a mid. I got my mid pipe and down pipe on ebay new for $220 shipped. It works great. I also have a PFS exhaust, and a rotary expert in Sac told me that my car is one of the best flowing fd's he has ever ran.

 

I had a mid pipe for a while but had bad boost creep so I went back to the Cat. Even with a pop off valve and a ported wastegate It could not be controlled. I have a DP, CB, PFC, intake, huge custom intercooler and a custom Y-pipe, ported motor (pettit), 1300 secondaries, new coils and new engine harness. I wish there were a better alternative to the Cat but the boost creep was terrible and it was also very loud with the mid pipe. I was thinking of installing a exhaust dump for the track and getting the Datalogit and having two sets of maps.

 

It's not the fricking cat-back people. For all of those bad-mouthing the Racing Beat, have you ever looked at one? It's straight through all the way. The only reason it's quieter is because it actually has a real muffler and not a tiny little cannister. Also, I know there's quite a few guys over 400 rwhp with the RB, so let's drop that from the equation....

 

Have you checked the compression? Some others have mentioned it, but I have not seen any follow up. Maybe I missed it.

 

What does the dyno graph look like... Probably gets unstable at the high end. Just like my car.... it is the cat....

 

Your plugs are way too cold for you setup and power potential. Stock 7-9 setup is perfect for 300hp. 300- 400 run all 9s. Higher then you need 10s.

Once again your AFRs are insanely rich. Around 11.5 for 12PSI boost and around 11.2 for 14PSI is better.

Been running this for years with no problems.

I use to run B9EGVS and now am trying the BR9EIX with about 350HP.

 

In the order they were asked:
- The compression is good on both rotors. It's been checked, oh, about 6 or 8 times.


- the dyno graph was not unstable at the high end. Smooth power / torque production, but not enough for my setup. This car ran absolutely flawlessly (except for getting the idle speed set) throughout the entire dyno session. Steve told me that this happens in about 1 out of every 9 cars he tunes.

- I agree with Rynberg about the Racing Beat cat-back. What bends are there are mild, it's a straight thru design, it does have a real can that absorbs sound so you can live with it, and it's a 3" pipe. Even if it was 'restrictive', there still couldn't be more than a couple hp difference.

- Hi flow cats do not compromise the hp as much as one would think. I'm sure it does to a degree, but not the level that we're talking about here. And, as I've said, Steve feels that with this setup, it should do better.

- max cooper suggested the PFS intercooler. If it's not flowing (blockage, whatever) the backpressure back to the turbos could cause extra heat in them, and heat-up the intake charge, and compromise hp. Makes sense, no?

- I was under the car to take a look at the HKS downpipe, and I do think that this is an area where flow could be slowed. The cast pipe makes a pretty sharp 90 degree downturn out of the manifold, as opposed to the more gently radiused turns of other DP's- which is why I've ordered an ATR DP.

Thanks for all the brainpower.

 

^ Agreed... EDIT: DOH, you beat me to the post.. i agree with the post above yours..

 

Just removed the plugs that were used for the dyno session. Now, I know to correctly read a plug, you should chop the ignition at full throttle, but this is a bit impractical on a street car. However, all plugs are light tan on the electrode, with no carbon buildup around the insulator. If the plugs were too cold, they'd be much darker, and there might be some buildup around the insulator. So, the 10's (at least with the iridium plugs seem to be right- and they agree with the car, as it drives wonderfully. Platinum might be different.

I've attached a photo of one of the plugs for reference.

 

gcthree haha are you kidding...a sniffer test here in NY. Throw any inspection guy a hundred dollar bill and ask for the "special". They don't even use my car on the dyno...

 

So let me ask you this....did you pop an apex seal and keep the same turbos on the car?

If so thats your probably the problem.....massive turbine wheel damage

STEPHEN

 

wow... 100octane.. that's too much money!

 

I did crack an apex seal last year (hence the rebuild and street port job) but the turbos were spared- not a scratch. Only lost a rotor housing. Plus, we're making boost, but HP is off about 10%.

As for the price of gas....I imagine when the 'detonation prevention device' or whatever KDR is going to finally sell, will probably be a few hundred dollars- at least. In comparison, $5.49/gal is cheap, and more effective. Now, if I drove the car daily, I would need to get my head examined, but as a weekend/ good weather car, the fuel is cheap insurance against detonation. And you can run as much boost as you want with this stuff (notice I said YOU, and not me).

 

steve kan dyno tunes cars just about every weekend in nearly every state imagineable, he sees the dyno results with different exhaust setups, mods, and turbos

i take his word that the racing beat dual is restrictive, i think he has mentioned a bit more than 2-3hp from getting rid of the RB dual

 

here is an idea to check the cat -

get one of those small ball shaped cameras that one uses on their home computers. remove the cat and take it inside. slide the tiny ball down into the cat to see if the honeycomb is melted.

you can also try swapping in my cat for a run to see if it feels any different.

 

Thats almost impossible unless the entire apex seal remained intact which is typically rare. The ONLY way to tell if there is turbine wheel damage is to completely pull the turbos apart so that you can see the shaft and everything.

In addition when I've had turnine wheel damage, I could still make boost, the car just felt weaker than before and it seemed a little more laggy than normal

Also, its not the RB exhaust, I made over 400rw with that exhaust

STEPHEN

 

The seal cracked, but did not disintegrate, thus sparing the turbos. There was damage to the housing, which needed to be replaced, and the rotor was salvaged, too.

Thanks for the input on the RB. The notion of this exhaust being restrictive just didn't add up.

Alberto, the cat is 6 months old, with about 1,000 miles on it. Unless there is a technical problem with the cat (manufacturing defect), I doubt it is damaged. I'll know more this week when I replace the HKS downpipe with a mandrel bent one.

Thanks for all the input, guys.

 

The apex seal cracked and did not disintegrate. It wiped the housing, but the rotor was salvageable. The turbos escaped without damage.

Thanks for the input on the RB exhaust. The notion of this exhaust being restrictive just didn't add up for me.

Alberto, the cat is about 6 months and 1,000 miles old. From looking at the plugs, the mixture is about right, so unless there is a manufacturing defect, I cannot imagaine that it is clogged.

 

If the rotor housing was ruined then that means SOME portion of the apex seal (no matter how little) seperated and went thru the exhaust. Which in turn would go thru one of your turbine wheels.

If they just crack but stay 100% in tact it doesnt hurt the housing. Most of the time when they are just cracked people dont even notice it till the crack gets worse and part of the seal breaks off making your car idle like a big block on drugs

STEPHEN

 

Chris Rogers did the upgrades and porting on my Malloy reman engine....I highly recommend him

 

I made 300rwhp with that IC,efini Y, the main cat and that exhaust. With stock ports and on a mild street port. Seq and non-seq.

 

Think I received a private message about this as well but oh well. As for air flow in the IC side here's the stuff from Cirian's site.

PFS IC

Core 3.5" x 10.4" x 10.5" CID of core 382.2

CFM of air flowed at 1.5 psi of pressure drop 410

Pressure drop at 10 psi and 6000 RPM 1.25 psi

Efficiency of heat transfer at 5mph air speed through core. 43%

Efficiency of heat transfer at 20mph air speed through core. 71%




ASP Medium IC

Core 3.5" x 12.55" x 11.55" CID of core 507.3

CFM of air flowed at 1.5 psi of pressure drop 620

Pressure drop at 10 psi and 6000 RPM .6 psi

Efficiency of heat transfer at 5mph air speed through core. 56%

Efficiency of heat transfer at 20mph air speed through core. 86%




ASP Race IC

Core 3.5" x 12.55" x 17" CID of core 746.7

CFM of air flowed at 1.5 psi of pressure drop 760

Pressure drop at 10 psi and 6000 RPM .35 psi

Efficiency of heat transfer at 5mph air speed through core. 76%

Efficiency of heat transfer at 20mph air speed through core. 88%