"Its either a dog or a missile, there's no middle ground..." Widebody

Man I love the missle part about it! hehe

Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com

 

Feared7 - Maybe you can explain it better. These replies are not consistant and are confusing. Full boost to me is the max' boost you can do, not when the turbos "begin" to boost.

On sequential you can have full boost by 4500rpm, but that's only "1" turbo. So if on parallel you have full boost by 4500rpm's on "both" turbos, isn't that more power?

 

Even at 4000 rpms, the only thing you won't have is the transition. Any FD with modest mods makes the transition almost non-existant. Hell, just about everyone that drives my car never even notices the transistion.

Nope, I upgraded them. I didn't rip them off the car never to put them back.

Nope, didn't get rid of it.

Race? 90% of the people on this forum don't "race" their cars. The most racing over half the forum does is the typical street light race. I will be doing open track racing starting next month (providing everything is in working order).

However, I beg the differ on the 1/4 mile part though using exact same cars (on stock turbos). Since you aren't gaining anything in the top end only losing the low, the poor-mans NS will not yield the same results there. The full-NS should help as you'll gain slightly better airflow and some added power at the high end.

You are missing my point. I never said that noone should ever do the poor-mans NS. What I said was it's not a good way to fix a boost problem and it doesn't guarantee that it will fix the problem at all. Troubleshoot the problem, don't bandaide it.

 

If I could "easily" trouble shoot my Seq. system, I'd go back in a heart beat! 90% of my driving is in the city. But, I know that it isn't going to be easy. So, I probably won't be spending the time to chase down all the issues. Besides, my mechanic said that I have some cracks in turbos and that I may have some transition issues.

 

I'd suggest using the Sequential/ Non-sequential switch. It's all done electronically. Takes about 45 minutes to install and you can decide on the fly which one you like for a certain situation. I installed mine on a perfectly working simplified turbo control system. If yours isn't already working it'll probably still have issues until u fix whatever is wrong.But if you want to try it I know there's info on it somewhere on this forum. I think i even linked to the install instructions once. Just make sure you get the correct switch. It's not something u can just pick up at Radio Shack but it's not expensive. If u do want to try that route and can't find the info let me know and i'll try to dig it up.

 

I know I've already explained and you probably don't wanna hear from me again, but I'll try again anyway.

Full boost is full boost. In stock form, 10 psi is it. Whether you get it at 3000 or 7500 rpm, it's still 10 psi. There is more power later in the rev range, but only due to the fact that the engine is spinning faster. The number of turbos operating has nothing to do with it, it all depends on what that little gauge on your a-pillar says.

 

Yeah but I like arguing Sorry if you have better things to do, but as for me, I have no life outside of my car (especially when it rains 24/7 and I can't go play with it )

 

911GT2,

You can't really argue with someone unless you are debating the same point. Your poll misses Mahjik's point by a few hundred yards. A few hours of preventive maintenance on the rat's nest and somewhere between $100 and $300 on new parts (hose and solenoids) will provide years of trouble-free driving with the sequential turbos. Substantially changing the characteristics of the car for a fews hours of work is not a good enough reason to go to NS.

 

Good point for 100% racing use, but for mixed use or non-race use, seq'l has it's place.

 

I like the simplicity of non-seq, but I hate the response. It is true that when I'm rowing through the gears at WOT, it doesn't matter whether I have sequential or non-seq.

But for the other 95% of the time I'm driving, I'm glad my car is sequential. My car makes about 15 psi almost instantly, even as low as 2500 RPM. This is great when I'm driving in the city, or coming home from work on curvy mountain roads.

I think non-seq would be a BIG mistake for someone who autocrosses. Keep that in mind if you are an avid autocrosser.

BTW, I have had no problems with my sequential setup since I simplified it a couple of years ago. A few feet of hose, and only 6 solenoids. The emissions system is more complicated than the sequential system, don't confuse or combine the two.

Wade

 

Ok then, obviously I have become the minority here. And now to bow out with what little dignity I have left, you guys can keep your seq, and I'll keep my non-seq, and we'll all be happy.

 

Well I had just done a hose job in Jan and replaced a lot of the solinoids, which amounted to $400 and no car for a few weeks. Then I start getting boost problems AGAIN a few months later. Rather than spend more money, time, blood, and sweat trying to figure this out again, when I know i'm going to dump it when I go single in the future, I just trashed the system. I'm full non-sequential now. I start building boost at the same time I did before, but it rises a little slower now. I think the only people who would complain with this set-up are people who have been spoiled by the almost instant boost of the SEQ set-up for too long. If you've ever driven any high powered turbo cars you would know that full boost by 3500 is not bad lag. Especially when you can rev out to 8000-9000rpms, thats a very broad range of power. And what is the problem with downshifting if you need more power? Below 3000rpm should be for cruising or light acceleration. If you need to get on it, downshift for gods sake. That what gears are for lol.

For the simplicity, reliabilty, and smoothness of this setup, I'd say its easily worth the few hundred rpm of boost I lost out of 8000.

My mods are listed below, so my results will probably be alot different than yours. Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

With seq system I can hit 7-8 psi at 1800rpm, full boost is just a couple hundred rpm later. I can imagine myself smoking the non-seq cars in most daily driving situations. For auto-xing non-seq is not a good choice in any situation. For road racing I can see it working. For in town/city driving non-seq will also loose. Where do you drive your car?


Although the rotary doesn't mind being revved up there is NO reason it needs to be cruised around at 3500-4000rpm all the time. So non-seq guys are either buzzing around at an uncomfortable rpm or completely out of the powerband most of the time.

I haven't had any problems with seq systems breaking myself and I've had 13 FDs. The problems I've had with boost was a non functional double throttle control and a couple cars with new motors where I had reversed a vacuum line. Both were relatively quick fixes.

Oh and what are the ages of most the non-seq guys? I'd bet on the younger side. Just because it is a "MOD" doesn't imply that it is a good one.

 

Cast one more vote for NS.

 

I've got one question. How much simplification (emmissions and other solenoids) can be done while still seuquential?

The main atractant of NS is the simplification to near nothing.

 

i did the full NS conversion and i get my full stock boost by 3100rpm.

-Zach

 

Thats awesome, do you have a dyno sheet to back that up?

Turbojeff, you and I both know that I respect and revere you as a god ( ) But I gotta disagree with you here man. As much as I'd like to see the stock seq system work flawlessly, every time, the fact of the matter is it doesn't. And until it does, I'm sticking with reliability over low range, not gonna use it power. If I wanted a wider power band I'd be driving a Z-28, SS, mustang, vette, viper, something along those lines. Half the rev range of "oh my god" acceleration is good enough for me. (Still ing though )

 

i really wish i did.....havent had **** for time lately to throw it back on. Im also waiting for another group of ppl to go back...id much rather pay $30 than $75.

 

No problem with you disagreeing with me. Wide powerbands are relative, a wide powerband on a turbo rotary is still different than a wide powerband of a V8.

Everyone is going to have different experiences, if you like what you have that is fine with me.

Still I've got some good experiences with the seq system. For auto-xing it is a must, can't really argue with that.

BTW, last auto-x I was at there was a 911GT2, he got last place in ASP, musta had a bad couple of days. SWEET car though. I'd take it and last place.

 

I've had the experience to have both stock turbos and upgraded twins setup in both seq and non-seq and overall seq is much more enjoyable. You guys who say about being how when you're racing you're never below 4K rpms anyway - do you race your car 100% of the time? When you're cruising around town or on mountain roads - NS blows - again, it blows. I had full NS with both the stockers and BNRs and I hated it. There was definitely more midrange..I won't argue that. But on the street, a properly maintained and tuned seq car will be the funnest car to drive. I had my FD for 5 years and never had a problem with the seq system - I am one of the few that swtiched back from full NS to seq and loved every second of it. To each his own - I liked 15 psi by 2800 rpms..even if it was on one turbo

 

Thats awesome, I've yet to see one. I wanna race on just so it can hand me my ***, and I can say "I got beat by a 911GT2!"

kwikrx7, no I don't race my car 100% of the time, nor 50% of the time. Most of my time spent driving is just going to work, school, or other errand-type things. But the car is very enjoyable to me then. I can drive it slow if I want, and fast if I want. But I don't hold on for dear life at half throttle in 1st gear, as I sometimes had to when I was seq. I kinda like having the option of driving with or without boost.

There are many times I drive my car where I never even touch the boost. City and highway driving, it's quite possible to not even bother. Maybe it's just me, but I like the option.

 

sorry doods...non seq is a drag in town...some of you non seq guys live out in the sticks and so non seq is all fine and dandy...but live in the city and your opinion would be different if you had the pleasure of a highway once a week at most...i mean hell..with non seq you dont get to enjoy it til yer speeding...which you can do out in the country....with seq i can still play in town...zoom zoom.

911gt ...i would like to compare your dyno sheet to my dyno sheet from 4k rpms and below. i imagine ive got at least a 50lb of torque gain on you by 2700-3krpms...if you were sequential we would be much muich closer in the rpm range that is normal for daily driving.

but to each their own....tis an endless discussion.


j

 

I live in Worcester. It's the 2nd largest city in Mass. Right behind that little town called Boston.

 

Where's the info on this? Sounds neat. I'd like to try it. Can't find anything though.

 

The website that used to have it is down but i'll try to see if i ever saved the info on my hard drive. Gene Felber is the guy's name that had the writeup. He's on this forum and actually helped me make sure i set it up correctly. The only thing weird about it is that if i leave it in non-seq mode and turn the car off when i restart it goes into limp mode. I haven't spoken to Gene about this yet since it's a minor annoyance.