NITROUS EXPRESS N-ter Cooler Chiller
05-07-02, 07:29 PM
#26
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Originally posted by MazdaMike
i always though N2O was bad for the apex seals like well, its harder on a rotary than it is on a cyl
i always though N2O was bad for the apex seals like well, its harder on a rotary than it is on a cyl
07-10-02, 11:34 AM
#27
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So, anyone used one of these kits? If no,
I plan to do some dyno testing this weekend. Couple of base runs on the dyno to get everything warmed up and toss down some consistant numbers, then supercool my intercooler with spray from a Nitrous bottle and pull another run without changing anything.
I'll do all tests using .8bar boost so even if I get a few extra pounds due to the super cold intercooler I'll still be in a safe boost range.
I'll be doing all the Nitrous spraying onto the intercooler with the car idling (ie not during the run) so the car doesn't accidently inhale any stray nitrous and go boom!
I've got a PFC and datalogit so I'll be logging everything I can which includes intake temps, boost levels and I'll have a WB hooked up.
I'll post the results of the tests on Saturday.
Wish me luck!
k
I plan to do some dyno testing this weekend. Couple of base runs on the dyno to get everything warmed up and toss down some consistant numbers, then supercool my intercooler with spray from a Nitrous bottle and pull another run without changing anything.
I'll do all tests using .8bar boost so even if I get a few extra pounds due to the super cold intercooler I'll still be in a safe boost range.
I'll be doing all the Nitrous spraying onto the intercooler with the car idling (ie not during the run) so the car doesn't accidently inhale any stray nitrous and go boom!
I've got a PFC and datalogit so I'll be logging everything I can which includes intake temps, boost levels and I'll have a WB hooked up.
I'll post the results of the tests on Saturday.
Wish me luck!
k
07-10-02, 12:10 PM
#29
Bigger and better things
Originally posted by nocab72
So, anyone used one of these kits? If no,
I plan to do some dyno testing this weekend. Couple of base runs on the dyno to get everything warmed up and toss down some consistant numbers, then supercool my intercooler with spray from a Nitrous bottle and pull another run without changing anything.
I'll do all tests using .8bar boost so even if I get a few extra pounds due to the super cold intercooler I'll still be in a safe boost range.
I'll be doing all the Nitrous spraying onto the intercooler with the car idling (ie not during the run) so the car doesn't accidently inhale any stray nitrous and go boom!
I've got a PFC and datalogit so I'll be logging everything I can which includes intake temps, boost levels and I'll have a WB hooked up.
I'll post the results of the tests on Saturday.
Wish me luck!
k
So, anyone used one of these kits? If no,
I plan to do some dyno testing this weekend. Couple of base runs on the dyno to get everything warmed up and toss down some consistant numbers, then supercool my intercooler with spray from a Nitrous bottle and pull another run without changing anything.
I'll do all tests using .8bar boost so even if I get a few extra pounds due to the super cold intercooler I'll still be in a safe boost range.
I'll be doing all the Nitrous spraying onto the intercooler with the car idling (ie not during the run) so the car doesn't accidently inhale any stray nitrous and go boom!
I've got a PFC and datalogit so I'll be logging everything I can which includes intake temps, boost levels and I'll have a WB hooked up.
I'll post the results of the tests on Saturday.
Wish me luck!
k
07-10-02, 12:34 PM
#30
This makes sense.
Its just like shaking or turning a can of dust-off or airbrush propel upside down: you get a super-cool blast of gas. that will chill things quickly. If you have an enclosed intake (you should) the gas won't get in the combustion chamber at all. It will just cool the surface of the IC core. No different than packing ice on it, or driving on a real cold day.
Other than on-boost applications, this would be a great device to undo major heat-soak after you've been parked or sitting in traffic. It takes a long time for the flow through the duct of a SMIC to do the job. PFCs have air temp compensation built in to the maps, so the fuel should be available.
can't wait to see some test results.
Its just like shaking or turning a can of dust-off or airbrush propel upside down: you get a super-cool blast of gas. that will chill things quickly. If you have an enclosed intake (you should) the gas won't get in the combustion chamber at all. It will just cool the surface of the IC core. No different than packing ice on it, or driving on a real cold day.
Other than on-boost applications, this would be a great device to undo major heat-soak after you've been parked or sitting in traffic. It takes a long time for the flow through the duct of a SMIC to do the job. PFCs have air temp compensation built in to the maps, so the fuel should be available.
can't wait to see some test results.
07-10-02, 12:43 PM
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I don't see how this can't work. 50 hp does seem high though. People have been putting ice on there intakes for ever, same principle here. Only difference is you are doing it during the run. I wouldn't worry about the intake sucking in to much n20. In my case the filter is in front of the IC, the n20 is going to be forced out the back of the IC and head towards the firewall. I am sure some may get sucked in but not much.
I was going to buy one but n-tech won't sell just the spray bar, I already have an N20 kit from an old car laying around, and don't need anything but the bar.
I was going to buy one but n-tech won't sell just the spray bar, I already have an N20 kit from an old car laying around, and don't need anything but the bar.
07-10-02, 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by mkoch1
I was going to buy one but n-tech won't sell just the spray bar, I already have an N20 kit from an old car laying around, and don't need anything but the bar.
I was going to buy one but n-tech won't sell just the spray bar, I already have an N20 kit from an old car laying around, and don't need anything but the bar.
I meant nitrous express won't sell just the bar.
07-10-02, 02:00 PM
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want2race - I've got an upgraded fuel pump and watch my inj duty cycles closely. Have been boosting 1bar on occation for racing ... duty cycles reach 90%, got a set of 1300cc secondaries coming in soon, I'm on top of it. 
Thanks for the words of caution though!
Speaking to people who have worked with the Nter cooler kit, it can easily be hooked up to spray only during WOT, or anytime via switch/relay.
If I move ahead with this project because of good results on Friday, I'll probably configure up some type of relay with timer so I can push a button and get XX seconds of spray anytime whether during a race, or just prior to. The XX seconds will vary based on the duration of spray needed to bring intake temps down to where I want them. With the PFC, that should be very easy to monitor...I wonder, does the PFC display negative degree's C? I've never driven my car in natural climate cold enough to test that?!?
K
Thanks for the words of caution though!Speaking to people who have worked with the Nter cooler kit, it can easily be hooked up to spray only during WOT, or anytime via switch/relay.
If I move ahead with this project because of good results on Friday, I'll probably configure up some type of relay with timer so I can push a button and get XX seconds of spray anytime whether during a race, or just prior to. The XX seconds will vary based on the duration of spray needed to bring intake temps down to where I want them. With the PFC, that should be very easy to monitor...I wonder, does the PFC display negative degree's C? I've never driven my car in natural climate cold enough to test that?!?
K
07-10-02, 02:24 PM
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From: http://www.lourdsmusic.com/bnrsupercars/ic.htm
"An accessory kit will be offered along with the Top Mount Intercooler (TMIC) kit. Accessories such as electric cooling fans and a misting kit. These items help alter heat soak while standing still."
Sounds similiar, but couldn't be NEAR as cold...Nitrous is something like -127 degrees!!! I don't think any amount of water misting is going to touch that!!!
K
"An accessory kit will be offered along with the Top Mount Intercooler (TMIC) kit. Accessories such as electric cooling fans and a misting kit. These items help alter heat soak while standing still."
Sounds similiar, but couldn't be NEAR as cold...Nitrous is something like -127 degrees!!! I don't think any amount of water misting is going to touch that!!!
K
07-10-02, 02:33 PM
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True but you could make your own water misting kit... using the windshield washer tank and pump. That would hold alot of liquid and it would be cheap to set-up / refill.
*Since rubbing alcohol evaporates much faster than water and is a great way to cool things off, why not spray rubbing alcohol? We've used it to cool IC between and during dyno runs before.
*Since rubbing alcohol evaporates much faster than water and is a great way to cool things off, why not spray rubbing alcohol? We've used it to cool IC between and during dyno runs before.
07-10-02, 02:41 PM
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More info taken from: http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...nitroushow.cfm
Cooler intake air is denser and contain more oxygen atoms per cubic foot. So cooler air will allow more fuel to be burned and intern make more power. A 10 degree drop in temperature can add 1 to 1.5% power to an engine. Nitrous oxide boils at -129°F and it will begin to boil as soon as it is injected. This can cause a 80° or so drop in manifold air temperature. Now if we are dealing with say a 400 hp engine, we can see well over 30 hp gained from the cooling effect alone. This cooling effect also helps the engine deal with detonation.
K
Cooler intake air is denser and contain more oxygen atoms per cubic foot. So cooler air will allow more fuel to be burned and intern make more power. A 10 degree drop in temperature can add 1 to 1.5% power to an engine. Nitrous oxide boils at -129°F and it will begin to boil as soon as it is injected. This can cause a 80° or so drop in manifold air temperature. Now if we are dealing with say a 400 hp engine, we can see well over 30 hp gained from the cooling effect alone. This cooling effect also helps the engine deal with detonation.
K
07-10-02, 05:39 PM
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i dont have a FMIC installed so i'm not sure on clearances....but couldnt you put this between the rad and FMIC? either way if you have it mounted in between or in front of the IC, it would be nice to have it temperature activated....with another switch limiting that one to WOT only runs...
hmm...or maybe less than WOT runs....
just thinking out loud...
hmm...or maybe less than WOT runs....
just thinking out loud...
07-10-02, 07:40 PM
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Cool idea
First off to Silver R1, Ideal Gas Law, nice pull.
There is a controller available ($80-$125) for a misting system that turns on from injector duty cycle and shuts off based on IC temp. No I don't sell this thing, I just have one waiting to install. I'm suprised so few people seem interested. Might be able to work for this too. If you don't want to draw CO2 into the intake, get a cold air intake.
There is a controller available ($80-$125) for a misting system that turns on from injector duty cycle and shuts off based on IC temp. No I don't sell this thing, I just have one waiting to install. I'm suprised so few people seem interested. Might be able to work for this too. If you don't want to draw CO2 into the intake, get a cold air intake.
07-10-02, 09:04 PM
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Re: Cool idea
Originally posted by WhtRocket
First off to Silver R1, Ideal Gas Law, nice pull.
There is a controller available ($80-$125) for a misting system that turns on from injector duty cycle and shuts off based on IC temp. No I don't sell this thing, I just have one waiting to install. I'm suprised so few people seem interested. Might be able to work for this too. If you don't want to draw CO2 into the intake, get a cold air intake.
First off to Silver R1, Ideal Gas Law, nice pull.
There is a controller available ($80-$125) for a misting system that turns on from injector duty cycle and shuts off based on IC temp. No I don't sell this thing, I just have one waiting to install. I'm suprised so few people seem interested. Might be able to work for this too. If you don't want to draw CO2 into the intake, get a cold air intake.
give us more info...
07-12-02, 03:12 AM
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I'm itching to see nocab72's test results.
Can anyone tell me how much difference there is between the temps of N20 and C02? I'm wondering what the performance difference between the two would be and how long a bottle would last.
Can anyone tell me how much difference there is between the temps of N20 and C02? I'm wondering what the performance difference between the two would be and how long a bottle would last.
07-12-02, 11:48 AM
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CO2 - Boiling point: -109.3 F
N2O - Boiling point: -129.0 F
Pretty close in boiling temps. CO2 is much less expensive, I'll certainly be exploring filling the Nitrous bottle with CO2 instead of N2O if I end up using it on a consistant basis.
I should have the results and dyno graphs up tonight!
K
N2O - Boiling point: -129.0 F
Pretty close in boiling temps. CO2 is much less expensive, I'll certainly be exploring filling the Nitrous bottle with CO2 instead of N2O if I end up using it on a consistant basis.
I should have the results and dyno graphs up tonight!
K
07-12-02, 01:17 PM
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I started a new thread with this question incase whomever knows the answer to this doesn't read *this* thread.
A common modification I've read about involves removing the double butterfly throttle body, can someone tell me what criteria (the temperature of what) determines wether one or both butterfly's open?
I realize it is a safety feature for controlling boost/fuel/air while the car is cold, but what actually determines when both butterfly's open? Is it oil temp, intake temps, coolant temps or something else?
I haven't done the modification to eliminate the double butterfly on my car and wanted to verify that it isn't the intake temp that is measured to determine open or closed second butterfly. ie if I supercool my intercooler during this experiment will that cause one of my butterfly's NOT to open, kinda screwing up my experiment.
Thanks for any info!
K
A common modification I've read about involves removing the double butterfly throttle body, can someone tell me what criteria (the temperature of what) determines wether one or both butterfly's open?
I realize it is a safety feature for controlling boost/fuel/air while the car is cold, but what actually determines when both butterfly's open? Is it oil temp, intake temps, coolant temps or something else?
I haven't done the modification to eliminate the double butterfly on my car and wanted to verify that it isn't the intake temp that is measured to determine open or closed second butterfly. ie if I supercool my intercooler during this experiment will that cause one of my butterfly's NOT to open, kinda screwing up my experiment.
Thanks for any info!
K
