FDZero

iTrader: (10)

Hey all,

I just recently had my starter replaced because my car's starter was having trouble cranking up first few tries. Upon getting it back from Mazda (yah...only bring there for smaller things like this), it was a Brand new "Reman" starter they ordered/installed. When I picked up...the car started up very, very fast...at least 100% faster starting...was lovely. Volts before crank was 12-ish and once cranked 14.1 or so. Was beautiful like this for a couple weeks...1st try everytime it would start and started up fast. But last weekend, I noticed while driving, the car didn't seem to crank nearly as fast and later on that day, wouldn't crank on 1st try anymore..just click, click, etc...more like 2nd and 3rd time it would. Reading my alternator indicator from apexi turbo timer...then noticed my voltage could be up as high as around 13.9 but COULD drop to around 12.5 (flashing on LED). So maybe it's not starter and it's my alternator?

As of today, it's been a week since I drove the FD...I have a daily driver too. This time, it took me about a good 7-8 times to finally start the car. On each failed attempt, the volt readings on Apexi turbo timer was 11.7. When it did crank finally..it quickly went from 10.5 (lowest i ever seen), 11 something to 13.9 with the charging of alternator. Drove around...parked...cool down..came back, start up 1st try just fine.

So is my starter faulty...bad solonoied? Bad battery (got April 2005 from Sear's Diehard) Alternator ( ...which I'll be replacing soon)? Doing some searching still. All of these symptoms include no AC, stereo or any accessory load. Temp. wise around here is warm weather and at night slightly cool. Problems start mainly on fresh crank of the day but througout the day of driving, no-cranking on 1st try occurs less..mainly help with alternator charging. Idle, boost, etc all seem okay all otherwise. Any info would help, thanks, Tam

crazyrx7

I would like to know the answer as well as I am currently having the same problems. I replaced the started 3000miles ago from Ray at Malloy.

R.K.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

I doubt the starter is bad. Really, the only culprits could be weak battery, weak alternator, or bad electrical connections (battery terminals, alternator/starter terminals, etc).

Just because the battery is a little over a year old doesn't mean it's good.

If you let the car sit for a long time, you could also have something draining the battery down. Do you have a big stereo, glovebox light stays on, something like that?

Dale

FDZero

iTrader: (10)

Hi,

Thanks for info, Dale. I do have my glovebox light that stays on at night (will need to build surface to it). But other than that...no other things I know of. later today I'll check around electrical connections and tommorrow, I am going to advanced auto tomorrow for alt/battery check. Will see what's up hopefully.

Tam

caredden

iTrader: (148)

Tam,

I hope you have success with getting autozone to test your battery and alternator. I took my car to autozone once and the tech freaked out when I told him I didn't have 4, 6, or 8 cylinders...rotary, what is that?

I agree with Dale, I do NOT think the starter is the culprit. Does it sound weak when you are trying to start it? In other words, does the car display the same symptoms as having a weak battery?

One trick you can do is have someone jump your car off with jumper cables. If your car fires up quickly, then I think it would be safe to assume that your starter is good...

good luck,

Charlie

FDZero

iTrader: (10)

Heh, I hope the tech/staff that checks my alt/battery is car-smart or at least knows what he's doing..haha. Heh.

I forgot to note, this morning on 1st crank of day going to work...after 7 or so tries (again!) of just click, click...the car finally started up but was a sluggish start..way slower than 1st day i got starter replaced. Volts on apexi turbo timer meter read before crank...11.7...than once finally cranked it read something like...10.5...11.2...13..5..and 14.0 I know it cranks like this but those first 2 digits are pretty low. Drive to work was average 13.7v w/ no ac/load...towards end of drive..say 25 minutes, was like 13.2v (no load still). Car cranks fine though after driving...cool down, turn off...crank on again. Tam

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I agree with Dale, try a new/better battery.

FDZero

iTrader: (10)

Hey all...well, I took my car to Advanced Auto Parts and Sears in my area. Both places checked my battery and alternator...and both places tested/printed out results displaying "good." Results included was as seen below. Also, I came straight to these places after work, which took another 5 cranking tries (8 hours since last cranked)...volts was 13.9 at crank. 20 minute drive to these places slowly dwindled to 13.5. After these two places, heading back home...it was a shocking flucuating b/w 12.5-13.00v driving home...wow, this sucks!

Battery
Sears Diehard Gold Spec = 550 CCA

Starter
Cranking volts = 10.88
-----
Good

Charging
Load volts = 13.39
No-load volts = 13.44
Diodes good
-----
Good

Visual inspection good = good (cables, belt, hold down, tray, etc)

*Note - the rolling machine they both used required entry of 6 cyl or 4 cyl only...opted for 4 cyl. And with the test, I had to hold RPM @ 2K...through the end of the hold (about 10 seconds)...the volts would drop from 13.5 or so to like 12.5 real quick and reving the RPM back to 2K was a slightly more force on gas pedal.

Master_Ly

Tam? You sound familiar...do I know you??? LOL, J/K. Anyhoot, this sucks you are being plagued by this nuisance. Let's recap, the primary and simple things have all been troubleshooted (voltage of battery and alternator) and/or replace (starter and battery little over a year old). I also remember you mentioning Mazda checked your groundings for the starter and when you try to crank it and does the clicking, the courtesy lights on the cluster panel don't dim out. Since all of this has checked out to be in good shape, I will throw this left field idea as food for thoughts. I think possibly your ignition maybe out or there is some sort of security that is activating and not allowing the car to start. Since I have no clue about the FD's security, I would go for more of the ignition or more specific, the key ignition. Lets say hypothetically this is the case, it would explain the random starts as for it is working when it wants to or how the light is not dimming out because the signal is not being sent to attempt to start the car. Any takers??? LOL. Other than this, I would check the fuses with a fuse light tester. I have one you can borrow if you want. This may not be the case but since electrical has been a topic of discussion on a 13 year old car, doesn't hurt to check out the possibly, original fuses and replace them along with other parts that will go after enduring time.
Kiet

chinoflyer

iTrader: (1)

you might want to check your starter power cable...

R1stKnight

This is what mine has been doing for the last 2 year now ... turn the key and get one click, turn key again, one click, and so on, then suddenly starts right up. Totally random, sometimes works on first turn and other times maybe 15 tries. One time I sat for 1/2 hour before giving up and, just to **** me off, started first try a few days later!

I tried a grounding kit thinking it was a bad connection, but no such luck. Battery is strong. Haven't replaced starter yet, but that is pretty much my last option.

Any other ideas or suggestions?

Speed of light

iTrader: (8)

Mine does this too. Sometimes works on first try, other times a few clicks, but it always starts. It sounds like the starter solenoid is pulling in, but I don't know for sure because there are other relays (and switches) in the start circuit. Someone needs to get under the car while clicking it to feel if the clicking we hear is really the starter solenoid. I have assumed the problem to be with the starter because I have the original with 160K miles on it. Now I am not so sure.

I was running a compression check the other day and noticed that the starter never missed once, nor could I get it to click. OK, so why is it working now? Well, for one, I used a remote hand button to activate the starter from outside the car. (Connected to the starter solenoid wire and 12V directly.) Hmmmm..... I am beginning to think the problem is not in the starter. The starter bendix has a fairly strong spring in it and if the solenoid isn't getting enough juice, the main contacts in the motor may not close even though it is clicking. Maybe the solenoid just needs to pull in harder [to make contact].

I've also noticed that if I hold the ignition key to start posiition and work the clutch pedal, that the car will usually start on the 2nd or 3rd kick. Hmmm. Maybe a bad clutch interlock switch?

Other possible culprits could include the ignition switch itself or the starter "cut" relay or anything that introduces a high resistance to the starter solenoid circuit. Note that it is not uncommon for switches/relays to fail in a manner where they will close but have a higher than normal contact resistance.

Note that there is another type of internal starter failure that can occur that can cause intermittent starter operation: If the brushes aren't making good contact or there is a dead armature segment, sometimes it will take several "bumps" to get the armature to move sufficiently to get good contact and spin. I don't think this is the problem we have with our FD's, and I haven't run across this problem in about 20 years, but I mention it so that you are aware. It IS possible for some of use to have different problems but with the same symptoms.

I can confirm that the battery and charging system are NOT the problem. For you guys that are wondering, 10.5V at cranking is perfectly normal and good. Starters typically pull 100+ amps and are designed for less than 12V at cranking.

So who will solve this FD mystery?

FDZero

iTrader: (10)

Hey Speed of light,

Thanks for the in-depth info. I'll jot down these notes. WIll have to report back on latest findings. Hope everyone else is having better luck than me. Tam

7 BOUND

hey guys, just wanted to asked if you guys has automatic FD's, my brother had a auto FD and he had the same problems, found out that the ignition went out on him, he replaced it and no problems since then.

R1stKnight

I'd also like to thank Speed of light for all the info. I definitely have a few more things to check out now. I've been holding off on replacing the starter because I really don't think it's the issue ... and it's not exactly cheap either.

7 BOUND ... my FD is manual, but I really wouldn't be surprised if it's something to do with the ignition.

Great thread FDZero! Hope you get your problem resolved ... I'll forward along anything I manage to find with mine in case it will help.

FDZero

iTrader: (10)

Hey everyone, I went back to Fred (my mechanic) and further inspection he has stated my clutch switch is the culprit of the problem. He will get back to me but he's going to check into other things related around the ignition/electrical aspects. This is similiar to what Speed of Light has stated above. Does this sound about right possibly...I'm not too familiar with electrical/ignition aspects. Thanks in advance.

mad_7tist

if the starter circuit seem scomplicated you need to take it somewhere to be diagnosed because it is a simple circuit.

first get your battery load tested and dont just assume it is "good"
do a voltage drop test on the load wire. put one terminal of your meter on the battery positive. put the other on the starter load wire and give the car a long crank. shold be less than a coulpe of 1/10ths dc.
12v from the ignition switch. (verify when key is put to crank)
12v going into and out of the clutch switch. ( again verify with a meter key cranking)
12v getting to the s terminal on the starter.

if any of these read low move toward the source(ignition switch) till it is right. and you have found the loss of voltage
look at all the simple stuff battery cables clean and tight. s terminal clean and tight clip.

if the starter clicks and it is getting ~11v on the s terminal and the battery is known good you can try taking off the solenoid and cleaning it's contacts inside, it is just a big plunger.

if the s terminal does not get ~11 volts you need to find the cause of the voltage drop as described earlier.

this is not just reading the commander which shows battery volatge, you need to get under the car and measure them.

remember if you pull the battery cables

neg is first one off last one on

BigIslandSevens

iTrader: (4)

FWIW:

I had been haveing the same clicking ,.... random starting isuues until yesterday. Then it died all the way. after a day of push starting the car. I had time to look into it. Long story short the starter cut relay is bad. I unplugged the connector ( blue 4 wire connector under the drivers side kick panel,..by the dead pedal;D)and jumped the black/blue to the blue/white( the 2 bigger gauge wires) at the connector. And.. perfect starting on the first turn of the key every time...

This is a temporary fix . I am ordering a new relay to replace this one. But for those of you who are suffering from a wierd starting issue that gets worse with time, keep this in mind.

crazyrx7

I had the same problem for years. This winter I installed a new clutch switch and looked at the old one and it was pooched. The part is only $15 and it takes 5 min to install. It fixed my problem.

R.K.