If your so worried about it, why don't you get it street tuned ? And then get a final tune once its broken in?

thewird

 

Well I am gonna go back to the base mod MAP that came with the POwer FC and see if the glowing goes away. It is hella rich and I may have to temporarily put on a midpipe to avoid buring up my new cat but oh well. The timing is probably not correct as it has a very large street port. The tuner is helping me get it sorted out. I may have to get a temporary tune from him until it is broken in. I know turbos get redhot but this was hot like I had been racing the car but it was occuring at idle. I am thinking timing because the car was idling at 1400-1500 and could not be adjusted any lower using throttle plates or cable.

 

If I were you, I wouldn't worry too much. People can make mistakes putting an engine back together, they can miss a vacuum hose, or connector pretty easily. Just do some spot checking to make sure everything is hooked together as it should be, and that you don't have any vacuum leaks. If everything is where it should be, then as everyone else has indicated it's probably just a tuning issue. In that case, just park the car if you can or at least go easy on it when you drive.

As far as the high idle is concerned, check your throttle cable to make sure it's not too tight. There is some play in the bracket at the TB, so its fairly easy to bolt it back on too tight if your not careful. I've had mine a little too tight a few times after removing the UIM, and it obviously causes the car to idle really high.

 

the high idle was with everything as loose as it would go. I could not physically lower the idle any more. The idle bled screw under throttle body was all the way in, the adjuster on the throttle body was asloose and the cable had plenty of slack.

 

What are the idle settings in the powerFC? You can look at this in the commander.

thewird

 

you might as well have brian tune your tune car really quick for drive ability up to 4 grand or so. that will get you atleast 500 miles on your new engine and you can go from there as to what might still be happeneing.

High idle...do you still have your ISC solenoid on the Throttle body? If not than you will have to have the idle adjusted manually as you were doing. And you will have to set the idle setting at 0.

 

My current idle situation is independent from Power FC. The idle settings are 900rpm. I even tried lowering them and no change. As I recall from working on other cars and adjusting timing using the distributor, as you advanced the timing the rpms would increase. I am assuming the same would happen here except electronically. My problem is that before with the Power FC base MAP the car was so rich the cat glowed red under idle conditions (I never checked the turbos back then. Then I leaned the car up a bit with BDC's MAP and the cat stopped glowing and that is when I noticed the turbos. I don't think the turbo was glowing before because the idle issue and cracking metal, gurgling began recently. What I really worries me is that the turbo is red and the coolant is only 85C. So maybe that means my coolant lines to the turbo are not working??

 

There is also a screw underneath that controls idle. I don't think timing has anything to do with it but what leading and trailing are you idling at?

thewird

 

first answer if you still have your ISC, that could be a part of your high idle problems.

 

Where is it located? Can you post a pic?

 

Nevermind. i found a pic. i still have the ISC. In fact I know I do cause when I initially was doing the Power FC learn the car idled itself up under load of lights and A/C.

I don't suppose anyone has a MAP for a stock FD laying around. I wanted to compare timing and injection corrections.

 

If yo u have a datalogit just save your current map and than re inital the PFC on the commander. that is the base map.

 

What size injectors are you running? primary and secondary?

Tim

 

Other than street port the motor and turbos are stock

 

If your car is idling that high on it's own there must be a vacuume leak somewhere. Get some carb cleaner and start spraying between the TB and UIM, the UIM and LIM, the LIM to engine and lastly any various areas where vacuume lines connect. The glowing condition is normal for something revving for a period of time. You're forgetting that its an internal combustion engine that's containing explosions. The metal creaking and cracking is everything dissipating heat. You might also have a defective ISC solenoid... Wouldn't be the first time.

 

Well, had some time to play around with the car. Loaded two different MAPS. The Power FC base mod map that came with the PFC and one of my tuner's MAPs which is quite a bit leaner. With the PFC base mod MAP the car smokes black at idle, idles rough. With the leaner tuner MAP is idles better and doesn't really smoke. I fixed the high idle. However, at idle both MAPs caused my cat to glow red. Didn't seem to glow after cruising for a few minutes, just at idle. So I am thinking it has to be a sticking injector or timing issue. Cause my tuners MAP is about 15% leaner and it still seems to be getting to much gas at idle down into the cat. I guess I am gonna have to remove the injectors and send them off to be cleaned and balanced and go from there. I will put my wideband on it first though to confirm it is rich.

Any suggestions appreciated or options for cleaning injectors

 

For the record, I had to take out about 25% of the fuel at idle to get my large street port to idle properly. Note that the only change was to swap a ported motor for a bone stock motor. I also had to replace the plugs once after the motor was fired to get it to run correctly.

Your cat shouldn't be glowing at idle....my 1st guess is that it's still too rich, the 2nd is that there is a persistent misfire.

 

yeah by now plugs may be fouled. The second map I put on was 15% leaner but the timing was way different too. I'm assuming a leaking injector will show up as super rich on my wideband too? I am gonna put it in tomorrow when I am off work. I may just pull the injectors anyway just to be safe. They need to be cleaned I am sure.

 

Sounds like you have an injector issue.

Typically on a street port you can just change the injector and idle settings on the power fc base map and the car should idle fine with no problems. You can lean it out a little at idle but really isnt going to change the way the car runs.

 

Well, maybe.... Note that If there is any misfire, or incomplete combustion, the AFR will NOT read correctly, it will read lean. I know this seems counterintuitive, however, it is because AFR sensors see Oxygen, not fuel, and there will always be excess Oxygen in the exhaust any time there is a misfire.

I just keep taking out fuel at idle till the motor wants to quit and add a little back in till it smooths out plus a couple of percent. I haven't found the timing to be too critical, although I think I use around 5-->10deg. BTDC, IIRC.

 

Fuel injector's need to be cleaned outside of the car. Those things that you pour in your tank are a gimmick. Send them to Keith at www.KGparts.com or his injector rehab site at www.injector-rehab.com Tell him Lance Mayhon sent you!

 

I will do the injectors. I am just tired of spending money on this car. Guilty pleasure I guess. I also want to get it running decent so I can break it in. Brian from BDC is supposed to be coming down my way soon so I want the car to be ready for him. I appreciate all the help.

 

OK so I drove this thing again today about 100 miles. Logged a bit, but only in the section of the MAP that I can safely drive in. Up to about 4200rpm and no boost. What I noticed. AFR is rich at idle which I knew. Some 15-16 just off idle to about 2400rpm. At cruise on highway run 11-12. However, again as I get to 4K I get several 10's and car starts to cut out. So I can fix this thing with some tuning. My question is that how does one tune the inj settings when all you get from some logging is about 30-40 cells out of 400. Do I just adjust for those? Still have some idle hunting. Also, I logged in 3rd starting at 2K and depress the throttle about 1/4 and let the rpms build up to about 4200k. Can I log accurately if I just drive it like normal through the gears? I have the Datalogit set to avg so it should avg the readings right?

 

Upload your map.

thewird