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So I'm buying my next FD and I found a rather nice price on a seemingly quality car from Omaha, Nebraska. I'm concerned about rust and such, but I've never lived out of the South as an adult and have no idea beyond the very obvious of what I should be looking for as indicators.
He sent me some engine bay pictures, and I can see some rust around the stock-mount intercooler and the passenger's shock mount, along with what looks like calcification on various metal bits. Is this normal for the age of the car or is this a red flag?
looks good to me. that surface rust on the sub frame in engine bay looks to be nothing to worry about and is normal for that area. You can just give it a light sand & spray with some black paint to re-protect it when/if in your posession. infact I think that may even just be a bracket which you can probably just remove anyway.
cant tell anything from the underneath front pic, as thats just a plastic undertray.
rear under car pic looks good. looks like a trust/greddy exhaust.
Also, 5k on a rebuild. 95k miles, 93 silver Touring 5spd, still has partition, hatch cover, and full Bose Wave speakers in rear. Intake/exhaust/short shifter, tow links, and wheels are the only mods.
Will stay like that for a while as I have some attention I want to turn to the E92 when I can have it off the road for more than a day or two at a time without paying for a rental (full suspension refresh and inlet kit to go with the FMIC, then a full custom tune).
Eventually, willl replace exhaust (don't love this one, prefer something a little quieter), replace turbos (something similar size but smoother - ball bearing/ceramic/whateverthefuck/etc), replace wheels (don't love them but they aren't terrible), 99 JDM from bumper mask and probably spoiler (though I'm undecided on that). Need to upgrade radiator - considering V-mount setup with FMIC. That would require a tune, but Rotary Performance is only a few hours away in Dallas, and I can borrow a truck to tow with.
Will rebuild the stereo myself, probably fab a sub box to fit in the (otherwise useless) spare tire well.
Thanks for the help gents, I've asked for suspension bit pictures which he'll get me by tomorrow (he works late shifts and I'm in no rush).
Eventually, willl replace exhaust (don't love this one, prefer something a little quieter), replace turbos (something similar size but smoother - ball bearing/ceramic/whateverthefuck/etc), replace wheels (don't love them but they aren't terrible), 99 JDM from bumper mask and probably spoiler (though I'm undecided on that). Need to upgrade radiator - considering V-mount setup with FMIC. That would require a tune, but Rotary Performance is only a few hours away in Dallas, and I can borrow a truck to tow with.
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FYI. You cant really just "replace the turbos with something similar sized".
With the FD having sequential twins standard, that only leaves with you a couple of options.
One is to get some modified stock twin turbos (i.e the BNR turbos). Or even some "99 spec twins" (i have some in great condition from my own car, along with all the "99 spec" stuff I will be getting rid of soon)
The second (and IMO best) option is to go to a single turbo setup, which requires many new components including manifold, turbo, wastegate, bov, ECU, new injectors, fuel pump, new piping etc etc. basically a full on build.
problem is, you cant bolt anything up to the stock manifold, other then the stock twins
Not my first rodeo - it's neither my first FD nor my first turbo car. For that matter, my daily driver is a modified turbocharged car. I can replace turbos with any size I want, so long as I fuel, spark, and tune appropriately.
I have no interest in a single turbo setup - a high boost threshold, high response lag, and a peaky powerband don't interest me. If I wanted that, I'd turbo a Civic or buy a Supra. I'll be retaining the stock sequential setup - maybe moving to the later model simplified sequential setup, and upgrading the turbos to a same frame, upgraded thrust bearing, compressor and impeller wheels, and ported housing.
We do the same thing in the BMW world - lots of guys hit the airflow limit of the stock turbos and upgrade to something in the stock frame (Rob Beck turbos, IHI makes a set, so on) that allows another 150hp at the wheels. I'm not that interested in the power numbers, but rather increasing responsiveness, lowering the boost threshold, and reducing lag.
Well my DD is an FD I DD'd it with sequential twins (99 spec 280hp type-RS, no less) for many years.
You cant replace the FD's turbo's with "any size you want". You can go slightly larger (like the BNR's) for not much gain, and keep the complexity and heat factory that goes with it.
The restrictive exhaust manifold is going to limit you no matter what you do. Remove the flapper, go non-seq, high flow it, port what you will. The fact is those turbo's will not be very efficient at higher boost pressures.
a well sized single turbo is not going to loose anything to a sequential twin setup. people are seeing 20+ psi at 3000rpm and holds till redline with modern turbos.
With all due respect, this may not be your first rodeo, but times change and a good single will give you the broadest power band of all.
Not my first rodeo - it's neither my first FD nor my first turbo car. For that matter, my daily driver is a modified turbocharged car. I can replace turbos with any size I want, so long as I fuel, spark, and tune appropriately.
I have no interest in a single turbo setup - a high boost threshold, high response lag, and a peaky powerband don't interest me. If I wanted that, I'd turbo a Civic or buy a Supra. I'll be retaining the stock sequential setup - maybe moving to the later model simplified sequential setup, and upgrading the turbos to a same frame, upgraded thrust bearing, compressor and impeller wheels, and ported housing.
We do the same thing in the BMW world - lots of guys hit the airflow limit of the stock turbos and upgrade to something in the stock frame (Rob Beck turbos, IHI makes a set, so on) that allows another 150hp at the wheels. I'm not that interested in the power numbers, but rather increasing responsiveness, lowering the boost threshold, and reducing lag.
Like two other members stated you only have a couple of turbo choices as far a twins go. You must be thinking single turbos not twins. You should probably do a little more research bud.
funny thing is there is single turbo setups now that can give same low end response as the twins but much better top end power. no offense to the BNRs but HP to dollar, it's not a great turnaround.
So I've been familiar with FDs since I bought my first one back in 98. I'll admit that I'm not an expert, but I'm generally pretty familiar with turbocharging cars.
I'm not sure if I'm just not making myself clear regarding my goals - I'm not interested in a significant power gain. I'm interested in smoothing the power curve and increasing responsiveness. Replacing the factory turbos with aftermarket turbos - even if the exact A/R, impeller blade, and so one - that utilize the technological advances since 1992. Things like ball-bearings, ceramic coatings, billet impeller wheels, and so on.
I'm not familiar enough with the mechanics of the sequential setup to suggest I know better than a well established community - I was just a punk kid last time I had an FD. I do know that improvements can be made by replacing 22 year old turbos with modern versions. I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that other gains can be made by cheats like clipping turbine wheels and the like, and that slight size variance on both the impeller and compressor wheels and housings can make changes to the boost threshold, compressor efficiency, and so on.
I mean, I'm a genius - I read Corky Bell's book!
Also, I'm not ruling anything out yet, I haven't shifted gears to FD research because I don't have mods on my timeline for another year or two, beyond reliability mods. I have a lot to learn yet.
funny thing is there is single turbo setups now that can give same low end response as the twins but much better top end power. no offense to the BNRs but HP to dollar, it's not a great turnaround.
ok so in all seriousness, here are a few reasons why you cant just "upgrade" the twins to use any size turbo you want.
Firstly, this is the stock manifold. As you can see, nothing but the stock "brick" will bolt up to it.
Now onto the turbo;s themselves. As you can see. They are one unit.
In later model turbo's, the compressor wheels literally contacts the housing. There is an abraidable lining in there. This of course means there is no where to fit a bigger compressor wheel..as even with the stock size there is no extra clearance.
Next up, you cant go and change the whole compressor housing and fit a bigger wheel, because then suddenly the cross over pipe that connects the turbos together wont fit. Same with a whole host of other things. Suddenly upgrading the stock turbo's does not seem like such a good idea.
Take a look over in the single turbo section if your interested in that. There are many good options, most of which will put a pretty big dent in your wallet!
Some good single turbo options would be a Garrett GT35R, Borg Warner S360, The whole Borg Warner EFR line (which are the best of the best). Turblown also has some really good custom/hybrid options
the Borg Warner EFR series for one(EFR 8374 for example), a number of them are capable of 15+psi before 2600 RPMs with a single turbo, and will dust any twins in power potential.
easily capable of 400+whp on pump gas, internally gated for lack of complexity, cheaper than BNRs with a wider power range potential. do i need to say more?
the twins were great when the car was new, single turbos have overtaken the need for low end response from small turbos with a mid frame responsive turbo design.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 07-13-15 at 09:32 PM.
Maybe off topic here, but I personally feel that the reason the FD is/was twin turbo to begin with is because it was built or designed during the time that the Japanese "gentlemen's agreement" was in place.
i,e the agreement that said that no Japanese car manufacturer would build cars over 280hp.
SO (in my opinion) mazda built a complicated twin turbo system in an attempt to have as much "power under the curve" and response as possible, while still falling under the 280hp limit.
Maybe off topic here, but I personally feel that the reason the FD is/was twin turbo to begin with is because it was built or designed during the time that the Japanese "gentlemen's agreement" was in place.
i,e the agreement that said that no Japanese car manufacturer would build cars over 280hp.
SO (in my opinion) mazda built a complicated twin turbo system in an attempt to have as much "power under the curve" and response as possible, while still falling under the 280hp limit.
that's just my take on it
technically mazda has always tried to produce as much power as early as possible. this is seen in the 2nd gen series 4 with a twin scroll turbo that divided the turbo runners in half for low speed velocity to aid in spool. then on the series 5 they used a divided shorter runner manifold with a wastegate dump solenoid to aid in boost ramp up and overshoot.
these were rather unique approaches to simply just tossing on a turbo and seeing what it could do on its own.
There's no rust on that car, it looks perfect. You had to have seen rust on a car before, it looks like rust on anything else. Rust and corrosion are not the same thing, every FD has the typical corrosion on certain metals even if it was stored indoors with 0 miles. Look at a car from a place like Chicago where they salt the roads a lot and you'll see rust. Typically you look for it on steel parts including bumpers and underside of the car including suspension and frame. There won't be as much rust in an engine bay even in a very rusted out car.
However usually you can't see rust issues until it's too late
Rust spots:
Rear hatch under spare
Either rear quarter down low (sometimes there is literally a pool of water in the a passenger rear quarter panel LOL)
Under carpet on passenger or drivers side edge especially if the car is a touring
And the usual spots if it's in the rust capital (north east) or everywhere LOL
Should you be more concerned about that wide open pipe on the upper intake? How long has been driving around sucking unfiltered air into his turbos and rotor housings?
07-13-15, 03:01 PM
