My Water to Air Setup - Australia
06-06-09, 08:32 PM
#26
This is what I will be using in my FC for a heat exchanger. It's a radiator with fan and shroud from an Arctic Cat ATV. Has a typical radiator cap for filling and for maintaining system pressure. 1 inch inlet and outlet nipples. It fits perfectly to the left of the hood latch on my FC.....not sure what kind of room you would have for it in your FD though so my rambling may be pointless, but here are pics:
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06-06-09, 08:45 PM
#27
I circulated the chilled water in this time of about 10min each session.
I think there would have been another 4 or so minutes of use left in the system as the water left was still extremely cold. The IC core was frosted up....
06-06-09, 09:00 PM
#28
Rotary Enthusiast
My setup using a 4.5" thick intercooler with 3" in/out pipes works great with less heat soak than the 28"X9"X3" Front mount I had in there originally. Water is better at heat transfer than air, part of the reason 95% of all car engines are water cooled. The trick is in getting the heat out of the water just as efficiently. This can be accomplished by having the appropriately sized heat exchanger up front to dissipate as much heat into the incoming air as the water it taking from the turbo charge pipes. My set up has a 500gph water pump using 7/8" hoses and an aluminum 2"X7"X28" heat exchanger up front and my IAT's actually went down both after extended driving and more notably when in traffic. I was impressed...an I can't complain for the reduced lag due to less piping and pressure drop.
Here is a link to an album of the engine bay.
http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/v...0Engine%20Bay/
Let me know what you guys think.
Chris
Here is a link to an album of the engine bay.
http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/v...0Engine%20Bay/
Let me know what you guys think.
Chris
06-07-09, 12:21 AM
#30
[QUOTE=ChrisRX8PR;9270555]My setup using a 4.5" thick intercooler with 3" in/out pipes works great with less heat soak than the 28"X9"X3" Front mount I had in there originally. Water is better at heat transfer than air, part of the reason 95% of all car engines are water cooled. The trick is in getting the heat out of the water just as efficiently. This can be accomplished by having the appropriately sized heat exchanger up front to dissipate as much heat into the incoming air as the water it taking from the turbo charge pipes. My set up has a 500gph water pump using 7/8" hoses and an aluminum 2"X7"X28" heat exchanger up front and my IAT's actually went down both after extended driving and more notably when in traffic. I was impressed...an I can't complain for the reduced lag due to less piping and pressure drop.
Here is a link to an album of the engine bay.
http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/v...0Engine%20Bay/
Let me know what you guys think.
Chris[/QUOTE
Alright. So you just use water and have it going from a resivor/jug/cooler, threw a radiator/ heat exchanger then into your intercooler? And it seems as if you drive this pretty often on the street. What Pump are you using? It looks as if you have a radiator cap onto the line to the intercooler? Can you give me some info on your setup as in what your using as a heat exchanger and the size, how your system works, do you know your AIT's? Im very very interseted in doing this but want as much info and input into it as possible and also so people can understand what people's setups are for ideas and good info.
Your car is f**kn SICK!!!
Here is a link to an album of the engine bay.
http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/v...0Engine%20Bay/
Let me know what you guys think.
Chris[/QUOTE
Alright. So you just use water and have it going from a resivor/jug/cooler, threw a radiator/ heat exchanger then into your intercooler? And it seems as if you drive this pretty often on the street. What Pump are you using? It looks as if you have a radiator cap onto the line to the intercooler? Can you give me some info on your setup as in what your using as a heat exchanger and the size, how your system works, do you know your AIT's? Im very very interseted in doing this but want as much info and input into it as possible and also so people can understand what people's setups are for ideas and good info.
Your car is f**kn SICK!!!
06-07-09, 12:26 AM
#31
Yeah refilled it each time but would have been more like 10min running time for the above amount of water and ice. I had the car warming up for at least 3 minutes before I went out and after I came in from the track to let oil temps stabilise.
I circulated the chilled water in this time of about 10min each session.
I think there would have been another 4 or so minutes of use left in the system as the water left was still extremely cold. The IC core was frosted up....
I circulated the chilled water in this time of about 10min each session.
I think there would have been another 4 or so minutes of use left in the system as the water left was still extremely cold. The IC core was frosted up....
06-07-09, 08:33 AM
#32
The system may not be applicable for every application, but it obviously works for yours.
It looks like it is effective for your driving purpose, and as such, I say great job.
Now, that video... I really like the video segments behind the right front tire. You can see the camber change during cornering, and the sidewall of your tire flexing inward, and ... yeah... its awesome!
It looks like it is effective for your driving purpose, and as such, I say great job.
Now, that video... I really like the video segments behind the right front tire. You can see the camber change during cornering, and the sidewall of your tire flexing inward, and ... yeah... its awesome!
06-07-09, 09:13 AM
#33
Racing Rotary Since 1983
iTrader: (6)
a picture can produce a thousand words... no i am not going to lay that many on you but...
this picture shows the genius of the FD chassis. the car is rolling 3 degrees or thereabouts and look at the all important outside tires camber. the front tire is just about perfect.
w 2 inches of bump the FD chassis pulls the front tire in at the top about 3 degrees thus maintaining the necessary camber thru body roll.
the rear looks like it needs about a degree or so more negative camber set static.
i recently spec'd the suspension on a Hyundai Genesis Coupe. since it has a strut front suspension (and the front is the most important) it has virtually no camber gain in bump. so if you put it in this picture you would see 3+degrees of body roll and the front outside tire would be positive camber 3+ degrees and the car would be plowing like a John Deer tractor.
love the FD.
really nice car James. apologies for slightly off subject but couldn't resist.
hc
06-07-09, 12:00 PM
#37
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Nice work, I totaly agree that the water 2 air is a better system + the reduced pipping. Do you think of having the core + a V mount radiator dedicated to the core would result in a big drop in temp? I just can't see myself adding the ice box for street driving. Again, great job and adding a heat exchange would make it even better.
06-07-09, 04:16 PM
#38
Rotary Enthusiast
[QUOTE=just startn;9270916]
Read my post again, I specified what flow my pump has and what size heat exchanger I used....I also have a 7" fan on the Heat exchanger.
I don't have a reservoir, I just have that radiator cap on the line that goes from the intercooler to where the pump draws. I basically turn the system on and fill it with water until it fill to the edge of the cap and close it off at which point the intercooler, lines, pump, and heat exchanger are full of water. You don't need a tank with water if you have the proper heat exchanger installed unless you intend to put ice in it and I don't because it was designed for the street.
I only drive it on the street and it behaves perfectly.
Chris
My setup using a 4.5" thick intercooler with 3" in/out pipes works great with less heat soak than the 28"X9"X3" Front mount I had in there originally. Water is better at heat transfer than air, part of the reason 95% of all car engines are water cooled. The trick is in getting the heat out of the water just as efficiently. This can be accomplished by having the appropriately sized heat exchanger up front to dissipate as much heat into the incoming air as the water it taking from the turbo charge pipes. My set up has a 500gph water pump using 7/8" hoses and an aluminum 2"X7"X28" heat exchanger up front and my IAT's actually went down both after extended driving and more notably when in traffic. I was impressed...an I can't complain for the reduced lag due to less piping and pressure drop.
Here is a link to an album of the engine bay.
http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/v...0Engine%20Bay/
Let me know what you guys think.
Chris[/QUOTE
Alright. So you just use water and have it going from a resivor/jug/cooler, threw a radiator/ heat exchanger then into your intercooler? And it seems as if you drive this pretty often on the street. What Pump are you using? It looks as if you have a radiator cap onto the line to the intercooler? Can you give me some info on your setup as in what your using as a heat exchanger and the size, how your system works, do you know your AIT's? Im very very interseted in doing this but want as much info and input into it as possible and also so people can understand what people's setups are for ideas and good info.
Your car is f**kn SICK!!!
Here is a link to an album of the engine bay.
http://s679.photobucket.com/albums/v...0Engine%20Bay/
Let me know what you guys think.
Chris[/QUOTE
Alright. So you just use water and have it going from a resivor/jug/cooler, threw a radiator/ heat exchanger then into your intercooler? And it seems as if you drive this pretty often on the street. What Pump are you using? It looks as if you have a radiator cap onto the line to the intercooler? Can you give me some info on your setup as in what your using as a heat exchanger and the size, how your system works, do you know your AIT's? Im very very interseted in doing this but want as much info and input into it as possible and also so people can understand what people's setups are for ideas and good info.
Your car is f**kn SICK!!!
I don't have a reservoir, I just have that radiator cap on the line that goes from the intercooler to where the pump draws. I basically turn the system on and fill it with water until it fill to the edge of the cap and close it off at which point the intercooler, lines, pump, and heat exchanger are full of water. You don't need a tank with water if you have the proper heat exchanger installed unless you intend to put ice in it and I don't because it was designed for the street.
I only drive it on the street and it behaves perfectly.
Chris
06-07-09, 04:17 PM
#39
Rotary Enthusiast
Nice work, I totaly agree that the water 2 air is a better system + the reduced pipping. Do you think of having the core + a V mount radiator dedicated to the core would result in a big drop in temp? I just can't see myself adding the ice box for street driving. Again, great job and adding a heat exchange would make it even better.
Chris
06-07-09, 04:27 PM
#40
[QUOTE=ChrisRX8PR;9272029]
Read my post again, I specified what flow my pump has and what size heat exchanger I used....I also have a 7" fan on the Heat exchanger.
I don't have a reservoir, I just have that radiator cap on the line that goes from the intercooler to where the pump draws. I basically turn the system on and fill it with water until it fill to the edge of the cap and close it off at which point the intercooler, lines, pump, and heat exchanger are full of water. You don't need a tank with water if you have the proper heat exchanger installed unless you intend to put ice in it and I don't because it was designed for the street.
I only drive it on the street and it behaves perfectly.
Chris
alright alright alright, I think im going to do this setup. i wonder if you use somthng like a heater core or a/c core put a fan on it and mount it were the fog light goes in the bumper wonder if thats good enough to keep the water cool....probably not
Read my post again, I specified what flow my pump has and what size heat exchanger I used....I also have a 7" fan on the Heat exchanger.
I don't have a reservoir, I just have that radiator cap on the line that goes from the intercooler to where the pump draws. I basically turn the system on and fill it with water until it fill to the edge of the cap and close it off at which point the intercooler, lines, pump, and heat exchanger are full of water. You don't need a tank with water if you have the proper heat exchanger installed unless you intend to put ice in it and I don't because it was designed for the street.
I only drive it on the street and it behaves perfectly.
Chris
06-07-09, 04:50 PM
#41
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Somebody (probably in China) is making replacement tube & fin condensers, which is totally inappropriate for A/C use on this car but would probably be perfect for your needs.
06-19-09, 11:46 PM
#44
Running this style heat exchanger. whats your thoughts on it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TRANE-Prima-Flo-...3A1%7C294%3A50
I got my heat echanger its 23.5x7.5x1.5.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TRANE-Prima-Flo-...3A1%7C294%3A50
I got my heat echanger its 23.5x7.5x1.5.
11-20-09, 03:36 PM
#45
This is a great thread. Very nice setup. I am planning an A2W setup. Considering heat exchanger & intercooler core sizes and locations for autox/street/HPDE/TT/Track use. I'm interested in maybe a small reservoir capable of fitting some ice (for short autox and TT sprints), but not willing to sacrifice the already limited storage space. Thoughts on alternative tank size/locations? How do I determine optimal sizing for core and heat exchanger (assuming no ice box)?
There are only a handful of location to put the heat exchanger where it would get flow; oil cooler opening & radiator opening.
If I used the radiator opening it could be either SMIC location, VMIC location, or FMIC location. Here are my thoughts on the alternatives.
SMIC: Heat soak is still an issue. Would want to insulate the core/intercooler to avoid heat soak from OE mounted rad.
VMIC: A lot of much work to modify radiator, a/c and p/s cooling orientation, but will ultimately provide least heat soak. Clearly works best with vented hood. Clearance for heat exchanger and core may be an issue.
FMIC: Minimal heat soak. Will utilize existing cooling fan. Blocks airflow to radiator. May overheat engine water temp during circuit/track conditions. Would want to insulate the core/intercooler to avoid heat soak from OE mounted rad.
Oil Cooler Location: Minimal heak soak. Would consider adding fan. Would I need to use both (required heat exchanger size is a relevant here) or just one? Again this may significantly hinder oil cooling (same as FMIC) and cause overheating issues on track/circuit conditions. Would want to insulate the core/intercooler to avoid heat soak from OE mounted rad.
There are only a handful of location to put the heat exchanger where it would get flow; oil cooler opening & radiator opening.
If I used the radiator opening it could be either SMIC location, VMIC location, or FMIC location. Here are my thoughts on the alternatives.
SMIC: Heat soak is still an issue. Would want to insulate the core/intercooler to avoid heat soak from OE mounted rad.
VMIC: A lot of much work to modify radiator, a/c and p/s cooling orientation, but will ultimately provide least heat soak. Clearly works best with vented hood. Clearance for heat exchanger and core may be an issue.
FMIC: Minimal heat soak. Will utilize existing cooling fan. Blocks airflow to radiator. May overheat engine water temp during circuit/track conditions. Would want to insulate the core/intercooler to avoid heat soak from OE mounted rad.
Oil Cooler Location: Minimal heak soak. Would consider adding fan. Would I need to use both (required heat exchanger size is a relevant here) or just one? Again this may significantly hinder oil cooling (same as FMIC) and cause overheating issues on track/circuit conditions. Would want to insulate the core/intercooler to avoid heat soak from OE mounted rad.
02-10-10, 10:27 PM
#46
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Love the a2w setup, I'm doing one on mine in a few days. Only problem I see on yours is the size of the core. Its probably 10 x 5 x 4.5" (so 225 ci). I feel its not big enough for a rotary that pushes 600cfm at redline with stock boost and stock redline. I'm doing a double core a2w intercooler so roughly 10 x 10 x 9" with a motorcycle radiator up front for cooling. Doesn't add much more volume in the system, but will cool A LOT better. I'll try to post before and after temps, expecting at least a 60F drop over stock so about 10% increase in HP/Torque
04-22-10, 06:57 PM
#47
Selling the setup now guys as a cheap V mount came up I couldn't resist!
$450 + shipping for the kit including:
Is a great setup, needed is pump, reservoir and lines (plus small heat exchanger if required) and away you go!
By the way, this core is rated at over 450CFM applications:
Water to Air Intercooler - 11"x9"x3.5" - O/S I/O (Type 8)
[INT000209]
This impressive Liquid/Air intercooler is better than any FMIC.
100% Lightweight aluminum, No Epoxy Used In Core
Recommended for over 450 CFM
Pressure Drop: Less than 0.1 PSI. This is not a typo! Liquid/Air Intercoolers have incredibly low pressure drop.
Inlet: 2.5" Outlet: 2.5"
Core Size: 9.25"x3.5"x3.5" (Endtanks add to length)
Maximum water/air pressure: 70 PSI
This intercooler has the inlet and outlet on the OPPOSITE SIDE.
Note: The water inlet and outlet on most water/air intercooles are BPT threads. BPT fittings are difficult to find in the United States, so ours all come with NPT threads.
$450 + shipping for the kit including:
- Polished cooler
- Polished custom (short) piping
- Mounting bracket to bolt unit to x member
- Silicone bends
- Clamps
Is a great setup, needed is pump, reservoir and lines (plus small heat exchanger if required) and away you go!
By the way, this core is rated at over 450CFM applications:
Water to Air Intercooler - 11"x9"x3.5" - O/S I/O (Type 8)
[INT000209]
This impressive Liquid/Air intercooler is better than any FMIC.
100% Lightweight aluminum, No Epoxy Used In Core
Recommended for over 450 CFM
Pressure Drop: Less than 0.1 PSI. This is not a typo! Liquid/Air Intercoolers have incredibly low pressure drop.
Inlet: 2.5" Outlet: 2.5"
Core Size: 9.25"x3.5"x3.5" (Endtanks add to length)
Maximum water/air pressure: 70 PSI
This intercooler has the inlet and outlet on the OPPOSITE SIDE.
Note: The water inlet and outlet on most water/air intercooles are BPT threads. BPT fittings are difficult to find in the United States, so ours all come with NPT threads.
05-02-10, 08:44 PM
#48
I HAVE air to water as well
i have been using air to water for some time now. I used a 94 Thunderbird air to air core and built a water box/reservoir around it. The first car that this setup was in had a toyota 4 runner radiator that i cut in half and tig welded some new tanks on it. this setup currently resides in a 94 r2 and i am using a 1" thick 12' x 24" core right in front of the condenser.
05-03-10, 09:39 PM
#49
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Ive had my air to water setup for about a month and love it but intrest seems low compared to Air to Air. I think its due to the numbers of rumors going around about it. Some true some not.
