My front splitter for cooling
11-13-03, 08:09 AM
#26
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Originally posted by racerfoo
haha, so im a riceboy?
haha, so im a riceboy?
" in there. No offense intended. Sorry.
Last edited by DamonB; 11-13-03 at 08:11 AM.
11-13-03, 08:10 AM
#27
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Originally posted by Fd3BOOST
Paul Winter has a very similar air damn on his car.
Paul Winter has a very similar air damn on his car.
11-13-03, 08:13 AM
#28
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Originally posted by rpm_pwr
Real racers dont need gunmetal painted rims.
-pete
Real racers dont need gunmetal painted rims.
-pete
The road wheels are always clean, the race wheels always look like they've been to LeMans
11-13-03, 10:41 AM
#30
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I helped develop those diveplanes (wedge shapes right in front of the front wheels) on the Competition Coupe Viper (Mumford's) in the picture in this thread 
I also coordinated getting them made in time for that race too, which Mumford won btw. The yellow Comp Coupe at the top of the corksrew has them too.
Making almost any type of splitter/airdam change to the front of a car will have some sort of aero effects. Usually good ones because it forces the air around the car instead of under it.
I also coordinated getting them made in time for that race too, which Mumford won btw. The yellow Comp Coupe at the top of the corksrew has them too.Making almost any type of splitter/airdam change to the front of a car will have some sort of aero effects. Usually good ones because it forces the air around the car instead of under it.
11-13-03, 11:01 AM
#31
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Originally posted by ExpensiveHobby22
I helped develop those diveplanes (wedge shapes right in front of the front wheels) on the Competition Coupe Viper (Mumford's) in the picture in this thread
I helped develop those diveplanes (wedge shapes right in front of the front wheels) on the Competition Coupe Viper (Mumford's) in the picture in this thread
Can you give us any of the knowledge base that goes into the dive planes? How'd you decide on area? Angle of attack? Number? Rules limitations? etc...My splitter design was very empirical...as in it looks about right! lol
Last edited by DamonB; 11-13-03 at 11:12 AM.
11-13-03, 03:14 PM
#32
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We came upon the final design of the dive planes through extensive testing in our wind tunnel. Some of the dimensions of it were dictated by the rules of the series the cars were racing in though. Aesthetics played a role too.
We began with a pretty standard example of dive planes used on similar race cars, and then went through iterations trying to optimize downforce vs. drag. Common sense and basic aero theory gives you an idea of where to start. You then optimize past that.
Without a wind tunnel you can do ink droplet tests to see where you have attatched and detached air. Attatched = good and Detatched = bad. Or you can attatch little string flickers, then drive while someone is filming what they do to get an idea of the same information.
That's basically the route we took. I don't want anyone to think I did all the work on these things. I am actually pretty new to the aerodynamics realm of engineering myself. I worked with a very knowledgeble aerodynamicist during the rotation where I was involved with the diveplanes, and he did the bulk of the work but let me have more input than I ever would have expected.
Anyway, one thing I learned is that even small changes can have large effects. We once saw a huge (relative to the gains we had been having) change in the front lift numbers of a car when we made the leading edge of the splitter completely flat vs. slightly curved along the bottom.
Sorry for the novel guys.
We began with a pretty standard example of dive planes used on similar race cars, and then went through iterations trying to optimize downforce vs. drag. Common sense and basic aero theory gives you an idea of where to start. You then optimize past that.
Without a wind tunnel you can do ink droplet tests to see where you have attatched and detached air. Attatched = good and Detatched = bad. Or you can attatch little string flickers, then drive while someone is filming what they do to get an idea of the same information.
That's basically the route we took. I don't want anyone to think I did all the work on these things. I am actually pretty new to the aerodynamics realm of engineering myself. I worked with a very knowledgeble aerodynamicist during the rotation where I was involved with the diveplanes, and he did the bulk of the work but let me have more input than I ever would have expected.
Anyway, one thing I learned is that even small changes can have large effects. We once saw a huge (relative to the gains we had been having) change in the front lift numbers of a car when we made the leading edge of the splitter completely flat vs. slightly curved along the bottom.
Sorry for the novel guys.
11-13-03, 04:27 PM
#33
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Originally posted by ExpensiveHobby22
We once saw a huge (relative to the gains we had been having) change in the front lift numbers of a car when we made the leading edge of the splitter completely flat vs. slightly curved along the bottom.
We once saw a huge (relative to the gains we had been having) change in the front lift numbers of a car when we made the leading edge of the splitter completely flat vs. slightly curved along the bottom.
11-13-03, 05:54 PM
#34
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Originally posted by ExpensiveHobby22
I helped develop those diveplanes (wedge shapes right in front of the front wheels) on the Competition Coupe Viper (Mumford's) in the picture in this thread I also coordinated getting them made in time for that race too, which Mumford won btw. The yellow Comp Coupe at the top of the corksrew has them too.
I helped develop those diveplanes (wedge shapes right in front of the front wheels) on the Competition Coupe Viper (Mumford's) in the picture in this thread
I also coordinated getting them made in time for that race too, which Mumford won btw. The yellow Comp Coupe at the top of the corksrew has them too.
Back on topic - fellow RX7 track junkie Paul Winter (who I think is mentioned already in this thread for having a splitter custom made for the bottom of his PFS front bumper) also has diveplanes that look similar to al the above. I heard it 2nd hand that they made a small but discernable difference on the track.
11-13-03, 07:18 PM
#35
Rotary Freak
IF you market your part, get the money up front as many people on this forum do not pay for parts sent to them .Vence at Performance Garage in Nashville made a larger splitter for his silver 7 , It looked very good and was looked at by others as the car went down the road .It had two little braces on top , It was alum plate I think .
11-14-03, 08:01 AM
#36
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Originally posted by ExpensiveHobby22
I am actually pretty new to the aerodynamics realm of engineering myself. I worked with a very knowledgeble aerodynamicist during the rotation where I was involved with the diveplanes, and he did the bulk of the work but let me have more input than I ever would have expected.
I am actually pretty new to the aerodynamics realm of engineering myself. I worked with a very knowledgeble aerodynamicist during the rotation where I was involved with the diveplanes, and he did the bulk of the work but let me have more input than I ever would have expected.
Thanks.
11-14-03, 11:55 AM
#37
Originally posted by duboisr
It looked very good and was looked at by others as the car went down the road .It had two little braces on top , It was alum plate I think .
It looked very good and was looked at by others as the car went down the road .It had two little braces on top , It was alum plate I think .
11-14-03, 01:48 PM
#39
Originally posted by racerfoo
i like the idea of the shark mouth. im always paranoid about my temps, but i havnt gotten around to doing it. maybe this winter.
i like the idea of the shark mouth. im always paranoid about my temps, but i havnt gotten around to doing it. maybe this winter.
11-14-03, 02:52 PM
#41
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Originally posted by jimlab
Damon, have you seen this write-up on Wael's site?
Damon, have you seen this write-up on Wael's site?
The Dibond material I used is much more rigid and will take some abuse.
Of course I didn't use a jig saw either
I created the curve by removing the stock lip and entering the bezier points from datum using a ruler and a square. Then I entered it into the CAD/CAM platform and cnc'd the sucker (along with some spares) 
My splitter has exactly the same shape as the stock lip except it sits out in front of the car, the rear edge under the car is still shaped correctly as well; it's not straight as in the pics on Wael's site. There's no reason the splitter can't be one piece but again I made it in two because each side is the same, so I can just replace half of it if something happens.
11-14-03, 07:41 PM
#42
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I removed my fog lights and increased my airflow into my radiator.
Nice front Lip DamonB, it looks good and is totally functional. Unfortunately I will still argue with you that a bigger radiator should come first.
Nice front Lip DamonB, it looks good and is totally functional. Unfortunately I will still argue with you that a bigger radiator should come first.
11-15-03, 09:03 AM
#43
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Re: Good idea
What are those two metal connectors that are bolted to the lip and the bumper? I saw that on the fd with 99 lip but i don't think it will actually tilt the lip up or down. Is that functional or just for looks.
By the way Mahjik, do you have any more pics of that shark mod? like from the front or so?
By the way Mahjik, do you have any more pics of that shark mod? like from the front or so?
Originally posted by Coulthard Fan
DamonB's idea seems to be in part the same concept as the 99+ front splitter, which was AFAIK redesigned to stop stagnant air (due to the larger grill openings) from going under the car, instead of through the respective coolers.
Also, this reminds me somewhat of the front splitter Eric Messley of EMI Racing Suspensions designed for Doug Hayashi's NSX Files car:
and 
and for Paul Mumford's (may he RIP) SCCA Speed GT Viper Comp Coupe:
... in an effort to primarily create downforce on the front of these production based cars. I think proper flow through the cooling systems was a secondary motivation.
Notice also that Eric's splitters also extend a few inches lower to the ground than the stock nose of the cars (on the Viper it looks like they molded in a lower spoiler before adding the lip).
DamonB - It looks like your splitterattaches right to the bottom of the stock bumper cover, eliminating the small (base model ) lip. Did you consider any means to lower the splitter to the ground? I know it would hit everything on the street, but I've thought that someday I'd have my bodyshop make me a easily removable carbon fibre splitter like this JUST for the track.
DamonB's idea seems to be in part the same concept as the 99+ front splitter, which was AFAIK redesigned to stop stagnant air (due to the larger grill openings) from going under the car, instead of through the respective coolers.
Also, this reminds me somewhat of the front splitter Eric Messley of EMI Racing Suspensions designed for Doug Hayashi's NSX Files car:
and and for Paul Mumford's (may he RIP) SCCA Speed GT Viper Comp Coupe:
... in an effort to primarily create downforce on the front of these production based cars. I think proper flow through the cooling systems was a secondary motivation.
Notice also that Eric's splitters also extend a few inches lower to the ground than the stock nose of the cars (on the Viper it looks like they molded in a lower spoiler before adding the lip).
DamonB - It looks like your splitterattaches right to the bottom of the stock bumper cover, eliminating the small (base model ) lip. Did you consider any means to lower the splitter to the ground? I know it would hit everything on the street, but I've thought that someday I'd have my bodyshop make me a easily removable carbon fibre splitter like this JUST for the track.
11-15-03, 09:41 AM
#44
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Originally posted by FormerPorscheGuy
IUnfortunately I will still argue with you that a bigger radiator should come first.
IUnfortunately I will still argue with you that a bigger radiator should come first.
If I am not having cooling issues with the stock radiator, I have no need to go buy another radiator. Makes perfect sense to me.
11-15-03, 09:43 AM
#45
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Re: Re: Good idea
Originally posted by BoOsTin FD
What are those two metal connectors that are bolted to the lip and the bumper?
What are those two metal connectors that are bolted to the lip and the bumper?
On a racecar with a real splitter/front diffusor setup the struts are there because the splitter creates downforce. Without the struts the tray would try and bend due to the aero forces on it. My splitter is not a source of downforce and so doesn't require them.
11-15-03, 03:29 PM
#46
Very nice job on the splitter Damon. From the pic, it's hard to tell how far down it extends. The stock lip doesnt go down very far from the bumper, maybe just over an inch (my car is not here to measure). Does this one extend down very much, or mostly out?
I don't want to make one, I'm just curious
Adam
I don't want to make one, I'm just curious
Adam
11-15-03, 04:28 PM
#47
Re: Re: Good idea
Originally posted by BoOsTin FD
By the way Mahjik, do you have any more pics of that shark mod? like from the front or so?
By the way Mahjik, do you have any more pics of that shark mod? like from the front or so?
It hard to tell exactly how much extra space is opened up until you see it parked next to a stock frontend without the mod. Then you see the difference.
11-15-03, 05:47 PM
#49
Originally posted by adam c
If you really want that much more air, why do you still have the fog lights on the car? Looks??
If you really want that much more air, why do you still have the fog lights on the car? Looks??
11-15-03, 06:12 PM
#50
Originally posted by Mahjik
IMO, I really doubt the fog lights block that much air. However, the shark mod is more than just opening the front a little more. You also cut out the raised part of the undercarriage (since it's now lower). The two parts combined really make a difference.
IMO, I really doubt the fog lights block that much air. However, the shark mod is more than just opening the front a little more. You also cut out the raised part of the undercarriage (since it's now lower). The two parts combined really make a difference.
BTW, I have fog lights too........