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Herblenny 02-14-12 11:59 AM

Modified Magazine Tuner Shootout - Street car ONLY!!
 
I was told by Modified that rotary car should be represented for this... Any volunteers? If so, post here.

http://image.modified.com/f/40120050...tout+cover.jpg


Originally Posted by Modified Mag
After five years of our no-holds-barred Tuner Shootout event, we’ve decided it’s time to mix things up a little. Just like in previous years, the Shootout is being held in the Phoenix, AZ area, with UMS Tuning hosting the dyno competition (March 30th, 2012) and NASA AZ hosting all the on-track action at Firebird Raceway (March 31st, 2012). The Shootout is also still going to feature an autocross, a time attack, and a drag race, along with a power test on the dyno.

But to put a new twist on the event, the 2012 Shootout will cater to street driven yet still highly tuned vehicles, rather than the all-out race cars that have dominated the event in years past. This means the entrants this year will be cars with full OEM glass, OEM fuel tanks, and OEM lighting (headlights, turn signals, and taillights), full interiors from the front seats forward (aftermarket seats and harnesses permitted), and a full exhaust system (no cut-outs or bypasses) including a functional catalytic converter and muffler.

To measure what we consider two of the most important aspects of any street driven tuner car, we’ve added an emissions component (using a tailpipe sniffer) and an exhaust sound level component (using a dB meter) to the dyno competition. As a result, the winner of the dyno competition may not be the team with the most powerful engine, but rather the team with the best combination of power, low emissions and legal exhaust dB.

Once again Continental Tire is the title sponsor, and given that this year’s event is meant for street driven cars, we’ll be requiring all teams to compete on Continental street tires (most likely their Extreme Contact DW, which come in a wide range of sizes).

There will be four events that will judge the performance of your car. Dyno (25 points) + emissions (10 points), Drag (75 points), Autocross (100 points) and Time Attack (100 points). The car with the highest overall score from these four events will win the overall championship. Trophies will also be awarded to the highest scoring FWD, RWD, and AWD cars.

The Rules:

• Your car must be equipped with:

OEM windscreen and windows (Lexan or other lightweight glass replacements not permitted).

OEM fuel tank (fuel cells not permitted) and unleaded or e85 fuel.

OEM lighting (headlights, turn signals, and taillights must all be functional, as is required on a street legal vehicle).

A full interior from the front seats forward (aftermarket seats and harnesses permitted. Roll bars and roll cages may be added, but interior trim can only be modified to the extent required to fit these safety items).

A full exhaust system (no cut-outs or bypasses permitted), including a functional catalytic converter) and muffler.

• You may put any driver you want in your car and there is no requirement for the same driver to pilot the vehicle during the 3 timed events. You can, therefore, opt to have a drag racer do the 1/4-mile runs and then swap in a Time Attack driver for that portion of the event. You may also choose to have different drivers pilot your car during the same event (ie. you can have more than one driver make a pass during the drag runs, but your team will still be limited to 3 passes total).

• You may change the aero, suspension, brake and ECU settings of your vehicle between events in any manner you wish. You can, for example, choose to remove the rear wing for the 1/4-mile runs and put it back on for the Time Attack. Similarly, you can run a high boost map on the dyno and then run a lower boost map for the autocross or time attack events.

• You are permitted to repair your vehicle between events, but you cannot change major mechanical parts between events unless it’s a necessary repair to complete the competition (you can fix stuff that breaks, but we don’t want teams switching turbos, rear ends, or other major mechanical components between events because we feel that places too much stress on the teams).

• Continental will be providing the street tires for this event and you will have to run on one set for the entire event.

If you think you’ve got a car worthy of entry into this event, please send us the following:

- Photos of your vehicle including exterior, interior and engine bay shots
- A list of modifications made to your car
- Why we should pick your vehicle for this competition

Email your submissions to peter@modified.com

Please be aware that the cost of attending this event is left up to you but we guarantee a good time with some awesome racers and some great exposure in the magazine for all contestants.

Read more: http://www.modified.com/news/modp-12...#ixzz1mNdV3cGF


XLR8 02-14-12 12:15 PM

I can think of a few that should step up..... ;)

rx7rcer09 02-14-12 12:41 PM

must have CAT....... im out ;)

cptpain 02-14-12 01:00 PM

Sounds like something similar to Sport Compact Cars' Ultimate Street Car Challenge.... which then became "Shop sponsored barely legal street car challenge" and then is now the "time attack challenge"

Herblenny 02-14-12 01:06 PM

Problem is that its in AZ... I have couple of people in mind but going from East to West will cost some cash. Anyone know of any 20B or 13B that's 500+WHP street car?

TwinCharged RX7 02-14-12 02:51 PM

I might just have to ship my car out haha

97SupraTwinTurbo 02-14-12 02:57 PM


Originally Posted by rx7rcer09 (Post 10979119)
must have CAT....... im out ;)

hahah That's about 90% of this forum.

Herblenny 02-14-12 03:54 PM

putting a high flow cat isn't a big deal..

Scrub 02-14-12 04:00 PM

Anyone want to pay to have my car shipped to Arizona? hahaha

GoodfellaFD3S 02-14-12 04:35 PM

Hmmmmmmmm

Supernaut 02-14-12 04:53 PM

SBG aint OEM yo.

the_glass_man 02-14-12 05:40 PM

I'd enter it, if it didn't require changing half of my cars setup. Being in Phoenix would even give me the chance to see my family. Some of these rules look like they are purposely trying to cock block rotaries. How many high horsepower rotaries run catalytic convertors? How many high horsepower well sorted rotaries run a catalytic convertor and run a quiet exhaust system?

Looks like they are trying to set us up for failure.

I would just be happy to see a well sorted RX-7 or RX-8 that doesn't finish in the back of the back like some of the other shot outs due to various problems. Wouldn't care if it was 20B or not.

Turblown 02-14-12 07:29 PM

I've got the perfect customer's car for this. It meets all the criteria, and is a short road course car. Did 370rwhp @ low boost yesterday stopping @ 5800rpms before the WG started to creep a couple psi..

Herblenny 02-14-12 08:22 PM

Post up some specs and pics! I'll forward to the editor of Modified... those I think could represent this community.

David Hayes 02-14-12 08:45 PM

Well I did put the hi flow cat on for a reason - this must be it. Talked to Steven, Phil, and it would take a T56 swap and an LSD for me. Which of course also means swapping out the clutch. Anyone wanna sponsor this? :)

RCCAZ 1 02-14-12 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by David Hayes (Post 10979749)
Well I did put the hi flow cat on for a reason - this must be it. Talked to Steven, Phil, and it would take a T56 swap and an LSD for me. Which of course also means swapping out the clutch. Anyone wanna sponsor this? :)

We'll find someone to put you up here in Phoenix if you make it to the main event David!

David Hayes 02-14-12 09:01 PM

^Thanks for the offer. I love the Phoenix area. Without sponsors, it just won't happen for me. I'd have about $4K in tranny and diff stuff plus $2K in shipping costs. Would do it if I could put something together on the sponsorship side. I'd love to get a good driver to take the car out and see what it can do - a 700HP RX7 would give the competition something to think about.

Without the above work though, we'd just be asking for trouble.

RCCAZ 1 02-14-12 09:14 PM


Originally Posted by David Hayes (Post 10979761)
^Thanks for the offer. I love the Phoenix area. Without sponsors, it just won't happen for me. I'd have about $4K in tranny and diff stuff plus $2K in shipping costs. Would do it if I could put something together on the sponsorship side. I'd love to get a good driver to take the car out and see what it can do - a 700HP RX7 would give the competition something to think about.

Without the above work though, we'd just be asking for trouble.

Friend of mine at Honeywell is the SCCA National Champion in B-stock (BMW 330i E46) two years running, so he could probably assist with autocross driving duties :)

Brent Dalton 02-14-12 11:39 PM

Interesting location. I'm sure it was done since it's one stop shopping as all the venues can be held at one location. I believe an AutoX driver/car would be the prime target for this event. It's a small road course,which an AutoX car and driver would excel at. Of course they woud do well on the AutoX course. ProSolo events feature a tree so alot of them have "launch experience", or you could just get one of the drag guys to run the car on the strip.

It'd be interesting to know how much time there is inbetween events. While they say you can make changes, I don't think they'll be that much time as it appears all three events are rolled up into 1 day.

turbojeff 02-14-12 11:50 PM

I would like to enter my car bit I think it is too far to the street car to be competitive...

Actually I am reading Car and Driver right now and wonder how well the new 650hp bone stock Mustang would do in the competition.

Turblown 02-15-12 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by Herblenny (Post 10979715)
Post up some specs and pics! I'll forward to the editor of Modified... those I think could represent this community.

Once I hear back from the owner I will. I am pretty sure hes driven the track where this event is hosted many times.

Turblown 02-15-12 10:17 AM


Originally Posted by David Hayes (Post 10979761)
^Thanks for the offer. I love the Phoenix area. Without sponsors, it just won't happen for me. I'd have about $4K in tranny and diff stuff plus $2K in shipping costs. Would do it if I could put something together on the sponsorship side. I'd love to get a good driver to take the car out and see what it can do - a 700HP RX7 would give the competition something to think about.

Without the above work though, we'd just be asking for trouble.

I will do $500, do you wanna speak to some of the other shops?

RCCAZ 1 02-15-12 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by Turblown (Post 10979652)
I've got the perfect customer's car for this. It meets all the criteria, and is a short road course car. Did 370rwhp @ low boost yesterday stopping @ 5800rpms before the WG started to creep a couple psi..

Does he have a cat and airpump? I think you'll need about 450 to 500 RW to be "in the mix." Recent article in C&D slated the new ZL1 Camaro against the Nissan GTR and the GTR won, so plan on some GTRs and ZL1 Camaros with race-prepped suspensions.

IMO, the car will need to pass emissions while running high 10s, low 11s and be a track monster to be competitive. No small feat! Actually, an E85 setup might just be the ticket! Should help with the emissions issue, correct?

I'm thinking the big-power E85 Lambo and Supra guys in the area will be all over this. Many have made the switch to Pro EFI which compensates for different fuels.

David Hayes 02-15-12 01:01 PM


Originally Posted by Turblown (Post 10980322)
I will do $500, do you wanna speak to some of the other shops?

Elliot, that would be awesome. Not very sure on how to approach shops with this. After speaking to Steve Osley here in Asheville, I'd need the following:

- T56 tranny
- LSD. Looking at the Carbonetic unit as it is carbon not metal and supposedly pretty quiet on the street
- Clutch as the T56 uses the opposite of the FD

That would do it but to be safe, I'd throw on a set of chromoly axles too.

Maybe I should contact Carbonetic?

Just haven't done this before.

Turblown 02-15-12 01:16 PM


Originally Posted by RCCAZ 1 (Post 10980518)
Does he have a cat and airpump? I think you'll need about 450 to 500 RW to be "in the mix." Recent article in C&D slated the new ZL1 Camaro against the Nissan GTR and the GTR won, so plan on some GTRs and ZL1 Camaros with race-prepped suspensions.

IMO, the car will need to pass emissions while running high 10s, low 11s and be a track monster to be competitive. No small feat! Actually, an E85 setup might just be the ticket! Should help with the emissions issue, correct?

I'm thinking the big-power E85 Lambo and Supra guys in the area will be all over this. Many have made the switch to Pro EFI which compensates for different fuels.

It has a Cat, but no airpump. I am thinking of sending an Rx-8 unit if hes interested. It should be 500rwhp car without the Cat. Keep in mind its probably only one area of the test, to win this contest will no doubt be HARD.

David,

Call the shops that sell those parts and see if they are interested in sponsoring you for the event. I would call the guys who have worked on the car, like Kilo Racing..

This is a big event worth sponsoring, to buy similar magazine coverage would be well over $10,000...

TwinCharged RX7 02-15-12 03:48 PM

Can anyone recommend the best way to get a car out there?

allrotor93 02-15-12 04:07 PM

shipping is around $1000

tranny from gnx7 $2000
clutch from spec $1700
driveshaft from Hinson $500
Axles from DSS $1800
Diff brace from Samberg $600
Diff (kaaz,carbonetics, cusco) $1000
shifter $250

labor xxxxxxx

David Hayes 02-15-12 04:57 PM

Well, Ive got some feelers out to Carbonetics for a new clutch and one of their carbon LSDs. If this is a go, I'll get more serious on the event.

David Hayes 02-15-12 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by allrotor93 (Post 10980786)
shipping is around $1000

tranny from gnx7 $2000
clutch from spec $1700
driveshaft from Hinson $500
Axles from DSS $1800
Diff brace from Samberg $600
Diff (kaaz,carbonetics, cusco) $1000
shifter $250

labor xxxxxxx

Jonathan, do you think I could get by with just the DSS chromoly axles for $600 versus the complete "pro" axles for $1,800? And for the diff brace, I'm assuming my Banzai Racing unit would still work?

TwinCharged RX7 02-15-12 05:37 PM

Does anyone have advice on which 3" high flow cat flows the best? I don't care so much about it's actual catalytic performance.

Looks like it should be metal for a rotary, can anyone find something that flows better than this? http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...6647&fromsla=T

RCCAZ 1 02-15-12 05:58 PM


Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7 (Post 10980757)
Can anyone recommend the best way to get a car out there?

Best or Cheap? Cheapest would be friend and truck with trailer. Best would probably be Reliable Carrier's enclosed semi trailer.

scribo 02-15-12 06:02 PM

uship.com is a great place to find shipping quotes.

I've had an offer for ~600 from coast to coast once.

calculon 02-15-12 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7 (Post 10980884)
Does anyone have advice on which 3" high flow cat flows the best? . . .

You might try SMB.

http://www.smb.net.au/catalyticconverters.htm

TwinCharged RX7 02-15-12 10:56 PM


Originally Posted by RCCAZ 1 (Post 10980919)
Best or Cheap? Cheapest would be friend and truck with trailer. Best would probably be Reliable Carrier's enclosed semi trailer.

Thanks, I'll check into it. If I get to go I definitely would ship it and fly out.


Originally Posted by calculon (Post 10980942)

SMB is a little too rich for my blood. I'll check out a few other places and see if there is anything that flows as well.

muibubbles 02-15-12 11:29 PM

hahahah i stopped reading after this:


To measure what we consider two of the most important aspects of any street driven tuner car, we’ve added an emissions component (using a tailpipe sniffer) and an exhaust sound level component (using a dB meter) to the dyno competition. As a result, the winner of the dyno competition may not be the team with the most powerful engine, but rather the team with the best combination of power, low emissions and legal exhaust dB.
IMO 95% people who mod there car get rid of their cat first....... lol

got_hp 02-15-12 11:32 PM


Originally Posted by muibubbles (Post 10981410)
hahahah i stopped reading after this:

IMO 95% people who mod there car get rid of their cat first....... lol

agreed... the emissions portion is incredibly lame.

David Hayes 02-16-12 06:03 AM


Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7 (Post 10980884)
Does anyone have advice on which 3" high flow cat flows the best? I don't care so much about it's actual catalytic performance.

Looks like it should be metal for a rotary, can anyone find something that flows better than this? http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...6647&fromsla=T

Hey Collin, did a bunch of research on CATs before I put on my 3.5 inch Magnflow 200 cell metallic unit. I made 675 WHP with mine - not too shabby.

Here is what I recommend for the 3 inch:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details

It's essentially the same as the one you are looking at and who knows, maybe Verocious buys them from Magnaflow?

I went with a 200 cell unit because it will control emissions but the best flowing ones are 100 cell units like this one:

http://performancepeddlerwholesale.c...T_ID=SUP200605

They will flow better than the 200 cell units but won't do much for emissions.

Now the actual "best" are probably the SMB units recommended by Dale Clark. He used them with really good success. But these would be more for having on your car permanently.

And ideally, you'd place the CAT right around where the mid pipe starts so you don't melt it. This is per Magnaflow.

David Hayes 02-16-12 06:04 AM


Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7 (Post 10980757)
Can anyone recommend the best way to get a car out there?

pm allrotor93 for info on this. He ships cars all the time.

Herblenny 02-16-12 08:07 AM


Originally Posted by RCCAZ 1 (Post 10980518)
Does he have a cat and airpump? I think you'll need about 450 to 500 RW to be "in the mix." Recent article in C&D slated the new ZL1 Camaro against the Nissan GTR and the GTR won, so plan on some GTRs and ZL1 Camaros with race-prepped suspensions.

GTR will be in an awd class so don't have to worry about GTRs, Evo, STi..


Originally Posted by RCCAZ 1 (Post 10980518)
IMO, the car will need to pass emissions while running high 10s, low 11s and be a track monster to be competitive. No small feat! Actually, an E85 setup might just be the ticket! Should help with the emissions issue, correct?

I agree... I think to be competitive in the emission portion, E85 will do better.


Originally Posted by RCCAZ 1 (Post 10980518)
I'm thinking the big-power E85 Lambo and Supra guys in the area will be all over this. Many have made the switch to Pro EFI which compensates for different fuels.

Not sure who will show up, I was just told to help find a good representation from rotary community. Personally, if I had to choose, someone making 500+WHP running e85 with track set up.. I don't think super high HP with laggy turbo will win.. Let's look at the numbers here..

Dyno (25 points)
Emissions (10 points)
Drag (75 points)
Autocross (100 points)
Time Attack (100 points)

Dyno is only 25 pts and Emission is 10 pts - Not sure how they are going to rank and assign pts (I'll find out), but if you come in mid level and win both AutoX and Time Attack, someone will have a good chance of winning. I'll find out more about the point system for you guys..

TwinCharged RX7 02-16-12 08:08 AM

Awesome, thanks David, appreciate it.

FullFunctionEng 02-16-12 08:31 AM

Yay for a local event! Too bad my fd would need too much work to be ready.. we will be out there though and would love to see an fd represent the community.

Herblenny 02-16-12 08:36 AM

Info about scoring..


Originally Posted by Modified Mag
Scoring:

The fastest team from the Autocross and Time Attack events will be awarded 100 points. The fastest team from the Drag event will be awarded 75 points. The winner of the Dyno competition will be awarded 25 points. The winner of the emissions test competition will be awarded 15 points. All other teams will be scored as a percentage of the winning values. Finally, teams will be penalized 1 point for every dB they register over the 95 dB limit.

The points formula used for the three timed events is as follows:

(Winning car’s time) ÷ (your car’s time) X (max # of points for the event)

Example 1 – the winning 1/4-mile time is 10.998 seconds and your car posts a best of 12.327 seconds. As a result your car will be awarded 66.914 points (10.998/12.327*75).

Example 2 – the fastest Autocross time is 42.025 seconds and your car posts a best time of 47.899 seconds. As a result, your car will be awarded 87.736 points (42.025/47.899*100).

Example 3 – the fastest Time Attack lap time is 65.351 seconds and your car turns a best lap time of 67.012. As a result your car will be awarded 97.521 points (65.351/67.012*100).

We feel this system is fairest because it recognizes gaps in speed, unlike a system where 100 points is awarded for 1st, 80 points for 2nd, 70 points for 3rd, 60 points for 4th, etc. Under our system, if you win an event by a large margin you will score proportionately more points in that event than your competitors.

Dyno & Emissions Competition: Since this is a non-timed event, we will be using our usual ‘Power Under The Curve’ method. For the purposes of this competition, we define this as the sum of all HP readings produced on the dyno in 100 RPM increments for the best 3,000 rpm range for your engine. By totaling power in this way, we will be evaluating how much useable power each engine produces in the RPM range it’s most likely to be operating in during the timed events.

Example: The most powerful car posts a power under the curve value of 20,000 HP (in its best 3000 RPM range in 100 RPM increments). They are awarded 25 points for this part of the event. Your car posts 18,000 HP under the curve. As a result, your car will be awarded 22.5 points (18000/20000*25) for this part of the event.

Emissions Test: While your car is still on the dyno (immediately after your final dyno run), we will measure HC, CO and NOx. This will be done using a 5-gas tailpipe analyzer during a 90-second idle test (approx. 900 RPM) followed by a 90-second 3000 RPM 100 lb/ft (as measured on the dyno) test. Your car’s HC and NOx readings (in ppm) will be totaled and the team with the lowest overall emissions will be the winner and receive the maximum 10 points for the event. CO will be recorded and reported on in the story so that readers see all three gases normally included in an e-test, but we won’t be using CO for scoring.

Example: The cleanest car registers HC of 10ppm and NOx of 15ppm during the idle test and HC of 15ppm and NOx of 25ppm during the 3000 RPM loaded test for a total emissions test value of 65ppm. As a result this car is awarded 10 points. Your car registers HC of 14ppm and NOx of 21 at idle and HC of 20ppm and NOx of 44ppm at 3000 RPM for a total of 99ppm. As a result, your car is awarded 6.6 points (65/99*10) for this event.

Exhaust dB Test: Once the emissions test is complete we will measure exhaust dB the same way the state of California does, where the legal limit is 95 dB. Teams will lose 1 point from their Shootout total for every dB they exceed this limit. The dB test will be done as follows:

The dB meter microphone shall be at the same height as the exhaust outlet and no closer to the pavement than 8’’ when the exhaust outlet is lower than this height. The microphone shall be positioned with its longitudinal axis parallel to the ground, 20’’ (+/- 1’’) from the nearest edge of the exhaust outlet and 45 degrees (+/- 10 degrees) from the axis of the outlet. The engine shall be at a normal running temperature with the transmission in neutral. The test shall be made at an average steady-state engine speed of three-quarters of maximum rpm.

The Classes:

All teams will compete head-to-head for the Overall Champion trophy. Trophies will also be awarded to the highest scoring AWD, RWD and FWD teams.

By this type of scoring, it could come down to a close race..

Also read the fine points here... 1 pt per dB will be deducted IF your car exceeds 95dB. This means, you could win all the races but if you make 120dB, you could actually loose the race.. Since this is already a VERY close race (based on scoring system), in my opinion, noise level might come down to be one of the most important thing..

I'll do some calculation and show you guys what I mean later on the day... I have a work audit to attend :)

Turblown 02-16-12 09:03 AM

I didn't see anything regulating gas, correct?

My customer is in, but to make 500+rwhp with a cat is going to take 100 octane.

Waiting on the other pictures from him to post up. I think this car will do well; GTX35R with a Tial 1.03 makes full boost by 3200rpms, and the car is setup for this track..

Makes me glad he went with the waste-gate reroute..

Herblenny 02-16-12 09:29 AM


Originally Posted by Turblown (Post 10981765)
I didn't see anything regulating gas, correct?

My customer is in, but to make 500+rwhp with a cat is going to take 100 octane.

Waiting on the other pictures from him to post up. I think this car will do well; GTX35R with a Tial 1.03 makes full boost by 3200rpms, and the car is setup for this track..

Makes me glad he went with the waste-gate reroute..

Can you email me some detail specs? herblenny@gmail.com

Make sure the car is quiet :) I just verified with Modified and no points will be gain below 95dB and points will be taken away after 95dB.

Here is a dB comparison chart..

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

swilson@assetworks.com 02-16-12 09:32 AM

Since fuel mileage is not part of the equation...
Seems E85 is the way to go. That plus very short rear gears (e.g. 4.77)
A Cat and e85 with a proper tune for each objective.

Then you just need a hot shoe... or two
There are national caliber auto-x guys on this board.
Drag, road course and dyno tuning expert ... Pluto?

Davin 02-16-12 09:33 AM

There are so many loop holes to cheat, it is not even funny!

TwinCharged RX7 02-16-12 09:38 AM

They are also adjusting the rules to be more specific. Auxiliary injection is acceptable, as long as primary fuel is from the OEM gas tank, then meth injection as auxiliary at high boost is fine. So 93 octane and meth injection will be better than E85.

calculon 02-16-12 09:42 AM

If you're not breaking an established rule (i.e. - loophole), it's not cheating. :)

Herblenny 02-16-12 10:32 AM


Originally Posted by TwinCharged RX7 (Post 10981803)
They are also adjusting the rules to be more specific. Auxiliary injection is acceptable, as long as primary fuel is from the OEM gas tank, then meth injection as auxiliary at high boost is fine. So 93 octane and meth injection will be better than E85.

Not better for emissions...

Here is what the test from National Renewable Energy Laboratory shows compare to E85 vs. Gasoline.

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/vehi...sions_e85.html

HC is 18% difference
NOx is 52% difference

Those are the two numbers they really care about.. also combine with right tune, E85, 2-3 rotor FI RX7 should do really well!!

TwinCharged RX7 02-16-12 01:06 PM

Is E85 better for power on the dyno too? I think we'll have to trade emissions scoring for power scoring, or vice versa.


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