Mazdaspeed Bushings
10-15-08, 04:10 PM
#26
If you can read Japanese there is a description here:
http://www.hirano-tire.co.jp/mazda-s/mazda-12.htm
The ratio is the same - the rubber in the assembly is 40% stiffer.
http://www.hirano-tire.co.jp/mazda-s/mazda-12.htm
The ratio is the same - the rubber in the assembly is 40% stiffer.
10-16-08, 09:23 AM
#30
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10-16-08, 10:53 AM
#31
The reason for stiffer bushings is to reduce deflections. Deflection results from stiffness and load.
Howard Coleman made the point that not all parts of the linkage are put under significant stress. The upper control arms, for example. Those will see very little real-world difference in performance because you're reducing an already-small deflection.
The areas where you'll notice the most difference are those with heavier loads: motor mounts, diff mounts, lower control arm bushings, trailing arm bushings.
Pillowballs are also important because even tiny loads can produce significant deflections if they're worn out.
Dave
Howard Coleman made the point that not all parts of the linkage are put under significant stress. The upper control arms, for example. Those will see very little real-world difference in performance because you're reducing an already-small deflection.
The areas where you'll notice the most difference are those with heavier loads: motor mounts, diff mounts, lower control arm bushings, trailing arm bushings.
Pillowballs are also important because even tiny loads can produce significant deflections if they're worn out.
Dave
I agree.
In my case, it wound up being one of those situations where I figured I might as well install them (the inner upper control arm and shock bushing) since I already had them. If I had to do it over again, I probably would not have gone through the expense unless those bushings were legitimately worn out.
jmw23712 - the ride quality of the poly Superpro bushings are pretty good. Its hard to notice a difference in ride quality when compared to good stock bushings. You do notice when you change the critical bushings that dgeesman mentioned in the form of accuracy and precision in more extreme driving maneuvers (such as on track). There was a thread with reviews of the bushings in this section. You might want to search for it if you want more info.
10-16-08, 01:15 PM
#32
I agree.
In my case, it wound up being one of those situations where I figured I might as well install them (the inner upper control arm and shock bushing) since I already had them. If I had to do it over again, I probably would not have gone through the expense unless those bushings were legitimately worn out.
In my case, it wound up being one of those situations where I figured I might as well install them (the inner upper control arm and shock bushing) since I already had them. If I had to do it over again, I probably would not have gone through the expense unless those bushings were legitimately worn out.
I certainly don't regret doing it however because it transformed the car in terms of feel. I was basically trying the recapture the much rawer feel of the Integra Type-R I used to own.
I also gained an understanding why so many Jimlab bushings sets are sold by users who never got around to installing them: swapping the 14 rubber control arm bushings is a serious amount of work. I thought I'd get it done in a few weekends but it took much longer.
Last edited by moconnor; 10-16-08 at 01:20 PM.
10-16-08, 11:53 PM
#33
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10-18-08, 12:21 PM
#36
Super Snuggles
How do you know Mark? Did you ask them?
Most people didn't have the tools, skill, or time required to swap them, or they bought them as a hedge against availability of OEM replacements. I asked a few people why they sold them, BTW.
Which was clearly stated up front. No surprises there.
Sure, ask pomanferrari. Apparently he's the only one who ever installed a set, because he's the only one I ever heard whining about squeaking. But after you ask him that, ask him why an apparently successful patent attorney didn't just replace them with OEM parts if he wasn't happy, but instead chose to whine about it. Repeatedly. For years. Like a little bitch.
Mark, just admit that you really don't know anything about the bushings, because you never installed your own set. However, you take every opportunity to talk about it because you have a personal axe to grind where I'm concerned. Possibly because I called you out for (among other things) being a psychotic Christian zealot with anger management problems, and for taking Dutasteride to combat your receding hair line?
Too bad a trip to the gym won't grow more hair on your head.
Most people didn't have the tools, skill, or time required to swap them, or they bought them as a hedge against availability of OEM replacements. I asked a few people why they sold them, BTW.
the nylon 6/6 requires zerks and periodic greasing
...just ask pomanferrari
Mark, just admit that you really don't know anything about the bushings, because you never installed your own set. However, you take every opportunity to talk about it because you have a personal axe to grind where I'm concerned. Possibly because I called you out for (among other things) being a psychotic Christian zealot with anger management problems, and for taking Dutasteride to combat your receding hair line?
Too bad a trip to the gym won't grow more hair on your head.
10-18-08, 12:41 PM
#37
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I'm sure your bushings are fine for the track, Jim, but quite frankly the material selection was poor considering the intended audience (street drivers), 99% of whom don't want to bother with greasing bushings every six months
btw my hair is fine (not sure why you care?), thanks for more worthless conjecture
10-18-08, 12:51 PM
#38
Super Snuggles
It was the appropriate material for a part that had to be machined to remain cost effective, because tooling for polyurethane molds requires a highly expensive investment. Why do you think Energy Suspension never produced a kit for the FD? Because it wasn't profitable given the low production numbers and potential customer base.
No one was forced to buy a set, and the potential downsides were stated up front. You can't get any fairer than that.
btw my hair is fine
Post a picture of yourself, without a baseball cap on, and I'll believe you.
10-18-08, 12:56 PM
#39
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the preferred material for racing would be Nylatron
Last edited by 2007 ZX-10; 10-18-08 at 01:06 PM.
10-18-08, 01:16 PM
#40
Super Snuggles
the preferred material for racing would be Nylatron
10-18-08, 01:26 PM
#42
Super Snuggles
Nylatron GS is molybdenum disulphide (MoS2) impregnated. It also costs around 6-7 times as much as Nylon 6-6. Do you think anyone was interested in a $2,500 bushing kit, or do you think that -- as in most production ventures -- acceptable compromises had to be made? Hell, I believe I even asked people if they wanted the more expensive pre-lubricated material, but you'd have to dig up the old newsgroup postings for that.
The compromise was that the bushings had to be lubricated periodically. That was stated clearly, repeatedly, and without any attempt to hide the fact that there would be ongoing maintenance involved. The installation instructions also clearly stated that the bushings were "intended for off-road use ONLY. Unobtainium Motorsports makes no claims as to the legality of use of these products on a licensed vehicle used on public roads or highways."
Now, which leg are you standing on? You obviously don't know jack **** about plastics.
Last edited by jimlab; 10-18-08 at 01:29 PM.
10-18-08, 02:26 PM
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I'm throwing the bs flag on that claim
for example
http://www.goodparts.com/shop/index.php?categoryID=12
face it, Jim, you picked the wrong material, you used what was readily available instead of doing the proper research
for example
http://www.goodparts.com/shop/index.php?categoryID=12
face it, Jim, you picked the wrong material, you used what was readily available instead of doing the proper research
Last edited by 2007 ZX-10; 10-18-08 at 02:29 PM.
10-18-08, 03:16 PM
#45
Super Snuggles
Nice try, Mark. How long did it take you to dig that up?
Take a good look at the size of the bushings in the kit you linked to. Do any of them look like they're the size of most of the bushings in the FD kit? Now, find out what a foot of 3" diameter Nylatron GS rod costs, and get back to me. The front lower control arm bushings required about 2 feet of 3" rod alone, and that's before you even consider machining costs or the requirement to buy in bulk.
You're absolutely right, I had no clue about Nylatron because I didn't do my research. Here's a post from 2002 proving it.
Last edited by jimlab; 10-18-08 at 03:20 PM.
