Swamp RX-7

After owning my FD for over two years now, I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly with this car. I know the car better than anything in my life, and it is the reason I changed majors in college from film to automotive technology. Now I see so many new FD owners with questions ranging from, "is my motor gonna blow up", to,"my turbos don't work right". Well, from my non-stop study of the FD, from concept, to production car, to legend(or infamy), I found that mazda did some things right, and some things wrong. Bare in mind, all you experienced FD dudes, that I'm writting this because there are so many posts and threads stating that the car is all busted up and sucks. We all know what mazda did right, the styling of this car is still considered to be the most beautiful car to have come out of Japan. The car handles better than anything I have ever driven, and I still get a big grin when taking a turn over 65 MPH. The design of the sequential twin-turbos is really something amazing, and passengers in the FD still say,"holy ****!" when I stomp on the gas. The light-weight parts and rotary engine I can't stop talking about. So, what am I getting at? The thing is, Mazda did one thing wrong. It's not the small radiator, plastic AST, rubber vaccume hoses, or anything else. It's the service department at your local Mazda dealership. In my humble opinion, if Mazda of America, and Japan for that matter, would have required that at least ONE technician in the sevice bay was trained for work on the FD, half the problems we have had would not have occoured. Let's say that Mazda would not let you sell RX-7's unless you were certified to work on them. A good technician would have spotted problems like the AST, or the very small radiator. He would also be able to diagnose the turbo problems we have. With the RX-8 right around the corner, it makes me nervous that mazda will repeat the same mistakes it made with the FD. If the RX-8 comes out and sells like hot-cakes(which I think it will) that will be a blessing and a curse to the rotary community. Now we will have a new rotary powered car that only a hand full of technicians can trouble-shoot, and the cycle will start again. So, just remember that education is the key to this car. I can't state enough how this car truly is amazing, and if you're down in the dumps because it's not running right, don't give up!! Don't be scared of the FD, if you take care of her, she will gladly take care of you! So, lets get this thread rolling, what do you all think? Do you think the FD has a bad rap because of simple problems that weren't spotted early? Or, do you think it was because of major design flaws, and or improper modding?

rynberg

While I do think they could have designed some things better (ast, rat's nest), I think you have some valid points. Truly, most of the problems and reputation of the FD come from improper modding and ignorant service departments. What other car REQUIRES you to go to an independent tuner/shop to get work done on it? It's a ******* travesty. I sure hope Mazda is educating the dealers and service departments about the RX-8, although without the twin-turbo system, working on these should be much, much easier.

93TTRX7

I agree, I will only take my car to Rotary Power and have Jeff look at it...also I'm gonna switch to single turbo as soon as possible. I think the sequential set up has too many wild cards for my liking. Also I think it was a beautiful post, it kind of gets depressing to hear how our cars are made like crap and that they just look nice...the engineering of the motor is even more advanced than the supra in my opinion. A 1.3L producing 255 horsepower is a feat, and those people that overlook it and put it down are truly haters. A true sports car will have it's ups and downs, you just have to bear with it. If your wife was good one day, and bad another...you wouldn't go around town saying that she's an unreliable bitch...you'd resolve matters and enjoy the good times.

Swamp RX-7

Very true. The thing that bothers me is the fact that older,"sports cars" like lambos and Ferraris had their fare share of problems, however the problems were called,"personality", FD problems fall under unreliable, and crap. But, through my own experience, sports car and reliable do not fit togeather.

R1Outcast

I completely agree with you. I haven't had any serious problems on my '93 because my mechanic knows the car in and out, he owns his own '94 with a long list of mods that he did himself. I know if it weren’t for him I would be having all kinds of simple problems turn into big ones by incompetent mechanics (incompetent with FD's).

hapa

The biggest problem with the FD is the precat. I believe it's responsible for all of the common breaks in our motor. First the rx7 in Japan doesn't have this pre-cat, it's only in the U.S. because of the EPA and cold start emmisions. The precat adds a TON of heat into the engine bay, this then cooks all of the plastic parts on the motor. I believe this leads to the quick demise of the AST, and other coolant problems, it heats and cracks ALL of the coolant hoses; especially the turbo coolant hoses. This heat also kills the stock vacuum lines, and solenoids. All of this heat also taxes the stock radiator and creates cracks in the plastic end-tanks. The Fuel pulsation dampner (which ALWAYS fails) also dies faster due to this heat. Bottom line is without the damn pre-cat our cooling systems would last longer, we'd have better boost patterns, and less chances for fuel fires on the motor. I bought a downpipe 1 week after having my FD, and I believe that it's dramatically increased the life of my car.

It is true that most (99%) of mazda dealerships have no clue on how to fix an FD. If we didn't have so many problems in the first place this wouldn't have mattered so much. I truly believe that if Mazda had certified master mechanics in EVERY dealership that could handle the FD, there would be 100's more FD's on the road today.

The best part about new owners and rx7's, is they want 500 horsepower out of a 1.3 litre turbo motor, without thinking about maintanence. To be honest any turbo car is going to require more maintanence than a naturally aspirated motor. So we've already established the fact that it's not a Honda. The turbo system is overly complex, especially compared with the MKIV supra system. If people took SMARTER, BETTER care of their FD's they would save more money and be able to modify their cars more intelligently. I chuckle to myself whenever I read "I have downpipe, catback, intake, can I add a midpipe with no computer?" The better question is why would you take this risk to begin with? It costs roughly around $4500 for a motor reuild (just an average guess #), and your going to risk it for a little bit of power? If people took proper care of their car's and modified them with a total informed picture in mind, the FD wouldn't have the reputation is has. Our beloved FD is a

With the RX8 I'm sure it will be easier to work on (no turbo) and hopefully Mazda will spend some real money on tech support. These will both be precluded to the fact that a non-turbo rotary has better reliability than a turbo version. So hopefully Mazda will take a good look at their service centers, training, and techs. Mazda has good mechanics, they just need the proper training of the cars to handle any issues that arrise. Given those factors I don't see why the RX8 shouldn't be a large success, and pave the way for a new RX7 and hopefully rotary Miata as well.

eric

bajaman

Swamp, I agree with what you say. I will only add one thing:
The FD was THE flagship of all the Mazda line, whilst it was in production. It was simply their premier car. When it ceased being imported, the 929 inherited the title.

Long live the FD, King of Mazda!

2-Rotor

I was waiting for a thread like this to start because i have a few issues to throw out there. First is ANY great sports car has its share of problems but i think the really bad rap the car gets about its reliability issues is because its made in Japan, a country known to build reliable and economical cars. Therefore it gets bashed for being unreliable. Secondly i agree that if Mazda trained their technicans things would be different instead of them just throwing parts at the problem to fix it. Third, look at how the amount of FD's are etheir:

1) good condition with only minor problems; wear and tear.(lightly modified consisting of reliability mods)
2) a car with nothing but problems no matter how many engines, turbos, solinoids, and vacuum hoses were replaced still the same problems.
3) heavily modded cars with weird *** problems due to lack of knowledge while modding.

The verdict, you ethier get a really good one or you bear the curse of a bad one. I truely believe that if properly maintained from the begining a lot of the bad ones would not exist. IMHO at the time these cars were new and the people who bought them brand new majority of the first owners used the assumption of a car coming from Japan would not need extensive maintence. Then there were the others who knew what was needed to take care of the vehicle but those people were very few.

So i believe i can live with the maintence on this car cause i KNOW how the car operates myself. The best FD's will be owned by the ones who know how to maintain them. Its expensive but its worth it!!!! Happy rotoring!!!!

atihun

I have heard from a realiable source, one that works at Mazda, that service people are already going through training for the RX-8. I think if they know what they're doing, they won't make the same mistake twice. And they did know that the FD support was non-existant. One thing that killed them here was the complexity of the twin turbocharging system. They replaced turbos just because they didn't know how to troubleshoot the control system.

rynberg

This is because teenagers and young twenty-year olds cannot afford older 911s, Ferraris, and Lamborghinis. Well, you might be able to pick up a 308 or 328 or really old 911 but..... Most older examples of these are 3rd or 4th or 10th cars of wealthy owners and the maintenance required by their 1000 miles/year use can be deemed "personality". When FDs daily driven by teenagers and twenty-somethings with barely enough money to pay for repairs (while eating Ramen noodles for every meal) have problems, it goes from "personality" to "unreliable piece of ****" pretty quick.

I do think that this forum tends to depress a little because of the number of problem posts but all in all, the FD is STILL one of the greatest cars ever made. In an era when cars were putting on weight faster than Oprah on a binge, Mazda put out a trimmed down pure sports car with styling that looks incredible to both the eyes and the wind tunnel. And even though most of us mod for more power, a stock 255 hp and 11 hp/lb is still a kick in the *** even by today's standards.

BrianK

FYI: the 929 was discontinued in the states the same year the FD was. The Millenia & MX-6 were the only "high end" car at the dealerships after that

Qball

i hate that 5th gear synchro crap.. mine's going south with 90k. i think that's ridiculous oversight.

juliof

The truth is Mazda f**k up, they should have tested these cars more especially the motor give me a break.The dealer should have some mechanics that know the cars, they should have replaced these motors with upgraded version if there is a defect like(o-rings). Dont get me wrong I love my FD but after owning only Z cars till now, I can say honestly these cars are fragile. I wish this car was made by Nissian or Toyota it would have been overly built , and be reliable as hell probably would have been considered as a truly awsome car.Instead these cars seem to be used and abused then put up for sale after engine problems.

warsaw

swamp next time break your post into paragraphs

much easier on the eyes

rynberg

Yeah, if Nissan or Toyota built a powerful twin-turbo sports car, it would have weighed 3500 lbs, not as good looking, not as good handling, without as much personality, OH WAIT........

Swamp RX-7

sorry about that =)

Swamp RX-7

ok, one question. In 20 years, what car will be remembered the most, and have the biggest following? The RX-7 TT, the 300ZX, or the Supra? All cars around the same year of course, 93 and up.

kwikrx7

The 3 cars you mentioned will be the 3 remembered. The Z made the top 10 best cars I think every year in production (90-96) - while heavy, it was pretty reliable and a fun sportscar. The Supra left a big mark on the sports car as probably being the fastest out of Japan. With a very conservative 320 hp (more like 350) it always won the performance contests. But the FD left the biggest grin on peoples faces after driving it. Although the numbers of all 3 cars are very similar in perfromance, the FD had the best feel for the road, was the funnest to drive, was best known for "carving" mountain and back roads, and handled the best. Being in all 3 cars I'd have to say the FD made me smile the most. The Supra was a Lexus on steroids, the Z felt like a yacht with turbos but the FD was like razor blade with incredible steering response and immediate boost.
I agree about the precat causing most of these problems (heat). Being up at KD Rotary alot, Dave has told me many stories about dealers replacing turbos left and right for $4K a shot when the main problem was the precat being clogged - imagine the underhood temps with a clogged OEM precat. The coolant seal problem (I had this one ) was a result of the owner before me overheated the car (probably a result of the precat) and cracked the o-rings and coolant seals. Unfortunately, not everyone ran out to get a dp after getting their new FD, so everybody's time is coming to replace the engine

Swamp RX-7

Anybody else?

Toadman

Cosmo, REPU, RX-2,3, RX-7....Rotary-Power, no doubt about it. Any auto manufacturers come out with breaking technology? Well, if you wanna count the GMIimpact and Honda Hybrid, but they're for enviro-freakaziods.

Anyone can build a dime-a-dozen hi-perf piston engine, i.e. Supra, Z-car, etc.

How many asian imports have won the 24 hours of LeMans?

Cyrio

I don't own an FD, so I obviously can't give any info except what i've read.

Basically I just wanted to say this is a cool thread. Its probably the best one i've read on this forum so far. Good posts by everyone.


chris

thatoneguy

I'm sure it wasn't worth the time, effort, and possibly money for the Mazda dealers to send just one mechanic to training to service the FD due to the low volume. Some dealerships probably haven't even seen an FD before.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the big problem was that they had the fuel recall which entails taking the rats nest off, by people who didnt want to, and then when the car didnt get put back together right and the second turbo didn't work....

i think if you went back and looked at the warranty claims you would find out the NOBODY knew how to work on the car when it came out, and the sequential turbos were way too complex for stupid americans to figure out. the tribute is just as bad as the fd but its not complex, they come in every 3000miles but they dont come back with the turbos not working

mazda has however, learned from their mistakes and the rx8 is a lot simpler. they also want to make sure that they have no problems with it. they realize that the rotaries reputation is at stake (again) and they dont want to screw it up.

mike

bajaman

You are right, I stand corrected.....I thought that the 929 went on thru the '96 year......but it did not.

hapa

While not being economical at all, Mazda dealerships have a responsibility to be able to service their entire lineup. I'm sorry, but not training techs due to economics is a **** poor excuse at best. I'm not a certified mechanic, but I've studied enough to fix most problems on my car. The tech's at mazda are definatley capable of learning to fix an FD just like me. They are far from incapable, they are just untrained, and uneducated when it comes to FD's. It's simply unreasonable to ask the general public to buy cars, if the same company is unable to service them properly. This is why Mazda sales have been so bad. They make excellent cars, but if you don't provide the proper service in the long run, your going to alienate all of your clientele.

If you can't send 1 tech from each dealership, then train one tech per district or area. Is it unreasonable to ask for 1 tech that floats between 3-6 dealerships just to service FD's? This is just a thought off the top of my head. Or what about 1 dealership in an area that is recommended for ALL FD repairs/diagnosis in that area? I wouldn't mind taking my car to a farther dealership to have it fixed right. I know many many FD owners that go to great lengths to get their car serviced "right" the first time. Mazda should have addressed this from the start.

Is there anyone on this forum from mainland Japan that can comment on Mazda dealerships in Japan, or reliability there? I'm sure it's much better than in the U.S. Japanese people are very meticulous and take their jobs/training very seriously.

I'm sure all 3 of the Japanese supercars will be remembered, mostly the Z. Everyone seems to know what a 300zx is. I've personally been asked many times what kind of car I have. People love the way it looks, but don't remember what it is. Auto enthusiasts will all remember rx7's but I'm not sure about the general public.

eric