racer rx

Hi Guys...

Sport compact car's JAN/99 issue with the Project 7.

Stated that Mazda had a Lubrication problem with a Certain Brand of synthetic. Does anyone know which brand they had a problem with?

They wanted to omit a huge lawsuit to name that "Certain" brand of oil. So they said that all synthetics were bad for rotary engines.

And Sport Compact and M2 recommend "Redline" as
their Brand. How does "Redline" compare to "Royal Purple" and "Mobil 1" or maybe "Amsoil"?

thanks for the replies. jc

rotary-tt

Boy I'd love to know this one. I now run Mobil 1. I noticed that late last year their FAQ's said they did extensive testing in Rotaries and did not have any problems. Now this text has been omitted from the Mobil 1 site. I picked Mobil 1 since it has a low ash content. Amsoil is also low ash. I've not seen any data on Royal Purple although Racing Beat recommends it.

Maybe Redline is the problem???

racer rx

But Redline is stated in Sport Compact to be used for a couple decades with no problems. And M2 suggest using it as well. Any other thoughts?

rotary-tt

Can't we get someone in Mazda Engineering to leak this information to us? Frankly I am sick of this synthetic vs. conventional discussion. Which oil is the problem? I'd like to continue using synthetic due to it's superior properties but not knowing which one is making the whole rotary community crazy...

juliof

I am thinking about switching to a semi-synthetic, I currently use 20-50 Castrol GTX but for a $1 more I can get a better performing partial synthetic oil.Anyone have any comments on semi-synthetics are they good.

rotary-tt

I'm starting to wonder if it is Mobil 1. It would have to be someone big enough that Mazda would be worried about a lawsuit. And Mobil 1 is the only 1 who had addressed the issue on their web site. Doesn't anyone know the answer? I hate guessing...

OC94Rx7

I remember reading something from the Mobil website too. The only thing I could find this time was under - Myths about synthetics - "Mazda does not recommend any synthetics" We have all heard this a million times.
Not the answer you wanted, but thats all I could find on the site.

juliof

There should be no problems using Mobil1 there are so many RX7 owners using synthetic oil without any problems.If there was a problem you would have been reading about it on this list.

JONSKI

Check this out.
I did a search on Google with the words mobil, rotary, and synthetic and this is what Google has cached:

Mobil 1 | FAQs
... While Mazda doesn't recommend synthetic oils in general for its rotary engines, experience
and testing have shown that Mobil 1 provides superior performance in ...
www.mobil1.com/why/myths.jsp - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

Mobil 1 | FAQs
... back to top. Can I use Mobil 1 in a Mazda rotary engine? While Mazda does not recommend
synthetic motor oils in general for their rotary engines, experience and ...
www.mobil1.com/products/faq.jsp?catId=18 - 61k - Cached - Similar pages

When I followed the links I could not find the text .
I've actually seen the text when I went to the Mobil1 FAQ over Winter break, but they've either removed it or just moved it.

R1Outcast

JONSKI: Every time my girlfriend sees this...

She just starts laughing and says, "Who is that? And why does he put that picture there?"

93TTRX7

I had been advised to switch over to Castrol or Valvoline 20w-50 by Jeff at Rotary Power instead of my Mobile 1 Tri-Synthetic formula. I don't know if synthetics are bad but why not just go with non-synthetic? No risk and it's cheaper.

maxpesce

I heard that it was AMSOIL, that the culprit was excessive ASH (carbon) and that AMSOIL has since changed their formulation, but has been unsuccessful in getting MAZDA to retest their new ash-free formula

JONSKI

I'm DAMN proud of that license photo!

luneytune

Maybe all the RX-7 owners using synthetics is why so many engines die before 100k?

R1Outcast

rotorbrain

synthetic is good for turbos. . . and mazda only had problems with the use of synthetics because they were in early stages of testing at that time. synthetic oils have come a long way. . . just like the rotary engine. i think everyone knows that the biggest reason for a rotary engine to lose its life is due to coolant system failure. it is this usually more that a dropped apex seal. . . and if it is a dropped apex seal it is usually due to over-boosting your engine and all that detonation stuff. i use castrol syntec and have no problems with it. i will soon be using z-max. . . yes i am going to be the guinea pig. the carbon residue is bs. everything leaves a byproduct when it is burned. dyno juice leaves the same ****. and if you are good about changing your oil on time then you wont have any problems. your turbos will love you for treating them to full synthetic. i personally think that semi-sythetic oils are a gimmic. the only thing it helps out on is keeping your wallet fatter. if it has a synthetic anything in it then there is that much that will burn different . . . if that is what you are afraid of. grow some *****. . . if you have the money. . . and use full synthetic.

209_rx7

I've been wondering about all of this also. Once I bought my car I was told the best oil to use is 10W-30 and I wasnt recommended to use synthetic at all. I think I'm going to give the high quality synthetic a chance....

Hyperite

Amsoil is the correct answer.

nocab72

I run Mobile1 and change the oil every 1500. I then recycle the oil into either my S10, or one of my many friends Honda's who can't afford synthetic, but want to run it.

They all love me and think I baby my car too much.

No, well, I don't run 15psi of boost on my turbo charged stock CRX motor ... ya, I guess I do baby my car. heheheh

Or maybe I just like to take preventative measures against the "big-bada-boom" (in the voice of Bruce from 5th Element).

K

Tom Delegram

This is the second time I have posted this email in the past two weeks. I am currently running Red Line although I do change the oil more frequently than the recommended 10 to 18 K. I change it around 5K and then dump it into my first gen or the cavalier. Also check out Red Lines web-site, it has some good general information about oils and the long running debate.

To Whom it May Concern:

I am currently in the process of replacing the motor and turbos in my 1994 Mazda RX-7 (Twin Turbo). Mazda recommends that only mineral based oils be used in the motor. I am familiar with your products from the time I spent racing in WERA. I have a great respect for your oils and water wetter. However, I am not sure why Mazda would recommend not using synthetic oils in the RX-7. Could you please elaborate on this? In addition, would you recommend the use of your synthetic oil in this vehicle? If so, based on the following, which product would you recommend:

Currently, I compete in SCCA Solo II every other weekend
One to two track days per month
I always change the oil before 3000 miles usually around 2000 - 2500 miles
I would like to thank you in advance for your timely response.

Thanks again,
Tom


Mazda has recommended only petroleum oils in their rotary engines from the beginning, this seems to be related to problems experienced in some engines.
They had problems with apex seals sticking especially in early engines as well as carbon locking the rotors. These problems are related to poor thermal stability and poor combustion of the injected oil. I don't know if there was actually a particular oil that caused a problem or if it was even a synthetic. The Red Line oils both the Street or Race oils are not a problem, we have used them with good success in numerous rotary engines and just don't have those problems, the oil will burn clean and doesn't cause sticking of the apex seals.
In a new engine I would leave the petroleum break in oil for about 1500 to 2000 miles to allow the seals to seat and the high initial wear to take place.
Once that takes place, I would recommend the Red Line 10W30.
You wouldn't need to change too frequently, we recommend 10 to 18,000 miles or at least once a year.


Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil

luneytune

Didn't you notice the smiley in the upper corner?

It's easy to ignite the Dino vs Sythee debate!

R1Outcast

Typos?

MaxRX7

I don't care for synthetics, hell i even use a $2 oil filter and my engine is great.

rotorbrain

if your gonna use a shitass oil then at least use a good filter. filtration is a vital key to oils longevity.

MaxRX7

yeah thanks, it is not like I go 10k miles on the same filter