mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

Hey guys, a friend of mine just had his turbos coverted to non-sequetial and put in a power fc. The car starts and idles but not great. The real problem is a what seems to be a delay when you sit at an idle and mash the throttle to the floor. The car then hesitated and makes a whooshing noise through his twin intakes.

I had a spare stock ecu in my shop and installed it to get a TON of codes. I'm sure some of them are related to the four wires that need to be removed (egr for example). The codes are as follows... 16, 25, 28, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 38, 39, 42, 44, 45, 46, and 50.

I have looked most of them up on my alldata program and narrowed a couple down.
38 is the AWS which I know has been eliminated. 50 is the double throttle control which has also been eliminated. I would trouble shoot all of these one by one but I'm hoping someone has some further advice. Thanks guys!

SportCoupe2

Which guide did he use to convert to non-seq? Or did he even follow a guide? The list of codes you are seeing with the stock ecu is because all the solenoids you removed. To run a stock ecu you must place a resister accross each pair of wires at every solenoid you removed.

I'm sure that isn't the real problem though since you used a Power FC and heard wooshing out the intake. Without knowing how the non-seq was performed it can hard to troubleshoot.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I didn't make the cut in the title huh ?

All those CELs are normal, he's had all of his emissions and seq stuff removed.

In my opinion, the car needs a non-seq power fc map for better driveability. The base map isn't cutting it.....I'm searching for a better map more suited to his needs, and if I find one I'll happily load it in for him

Boost leaks are pretty easy to diagnose, check the ic couplers and BOV.

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

^yeah, really. You are the only one of those that actually runs non-seq

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

Rich, I found all his boost leaks. We put the stock ecu in and it does the same problem so it cannot simply be the map. We did not drive on the map. Something is not right. I thought Ihor did tuning???

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Interesting description.

Are you sure that's code "16"? The stock ECU isn't going to run real well with some of those codes so you might keep the PFC on there unless you want to verify "code 16". I would guess its either 15 or 17 for the O2 sensor, but you might verify that.

For the non-seq conversion, was it the poor-man's version?

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

We went let the codes run twice to confirm A: we had all the codes and B: to make sure there were no mistakes. I'm pretty sure it was code 16, though I hate staring at flashing lights

I do know that he has a new 02 sensor. Also, it was funny cause once we started the car up with the stock ecu it actually idled great! Though we tried smashing the throttle" and we still had the surging delay. Thanks for the help so far. I just want to figure this out...

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I've never seen a code 16 listed anywhere:

http://www.fd3s.net/engine_codes.html

However, I'll admit I never tried to find one either.

The idle issue just sounds like you need to go through the PFC idle learning procedures. Can you rev it in neutral (i.e. with the hood open and just use your hand to pull the throttle cable) and hear the air whoosh that you described?

ROTARYROCKET7

yo wuz good lance. Yo are you talking about A-Rods car (MAAAAAAAAADSLOW) ? That car is meesed up. When we was up by james house in PO-Town i barely saw the due cuz he was outside almost the entire night. That car ran like absolute crap. Good thing you helped him out and found that vaccume leak and those loose bolts laying all around. It's sad that he spent mad money at some shop (which he wouldnt tell me) and you and alex (alny93) found so many stupid problems. I took my car to T&R once and got *** raped from that day foward no matter how difficult a job is, I would rather do it myself or with close freinds. I would rather break my car for free than pay someone else to do it for me.

I hope all goes well with his car, shes so pretty. I dont gotta worry about all those issue with my 146hp na beast!

Jason NYC

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

In my All Data software it states that code 16 is related to the egr switch. I was thinking that its related to the egr wire/wires that are cut. I would just like to weed out the codes that are there for reasons we caused/wanted (eg. aws).

As for the idle we can rev it at idle, though we have to raise the revs slow. Like I if we step down on the throttle really hard it bogs out. I forget what someone said they thought it was the other day... I guess I'll have to get in touch with them and find out.

jpandes

Here are a bunch of Non-seq maps that downloaded off the forum when I went NS.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/jpandes


I hope it helps.

J

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Where did these boost leaks come from? Last time I drove the car it had zero

Did you drive the car with the stock ecu?

I agree, something isn't right.....he needs tuning. Dave at KD Rotary is probably the closest option.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Ihor and I worked on Antonio's car, and it left in good condition. I suggest you think twice before running your mouth about situations that don't concern you.

The car isn't running right because you can't run non-sequentially on a sequential map. Being an n/a guy, I wouldn't expect you to know that.

Also, a vacuum nipple that blows off under boost, and a loose bolt that fell and couldnt be found (and was replaced with the proper hardware), are hardly 'so many problems.'

Ihor and I stand behind our work 100%, and Antonio has a standing offer to bring the car back in for any work he isn't happy with.

These cars are 15 years old now, and the more they're modified from stock, the more problems you're going to have. It isn't rocket science. If people want a trouble-free car, go buy something brand new.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Spoke to Antonio, the minor boost issue has been resolved. It was simply a cracked cap that was blocking off the emissions piping on his aftermarket intake.

I'm working with him to resolve the stumbling problem, which I still think can be taken care of with proper tuning.

njstreetrx7

RICH CALM DOWN, jason is a good guy i pretty sure hes prolly talkin from what he saw. and im pretty sure he didnt know it was u and ihor

mono4lamar

iTrader: (32)

Rich I never mentioned a name nor did I want to start a problem I tried to keep it anonymous. We did not drive the car on the stock ecu as Antonio most likely told you. We'll figure it out its only a matter of time.

ROTARYROCKET7

Running my mouth, dude im entitled to post what ever the **** i feel. This kid was very upset and wasnt happy with the quality of the work done to his car. SO he was complaining about it and the type of money he spent. He never went into details about who did the work, and how much it cost. He actually didnt want to start any beef. So cuz i post about my own experience with shops and whateva, and you get offended its not my problem at all. But it is when my boy a-rod is down in the ******* after unloading his wallets.

Also i never said i understand why his car isnt running, just the fact is he took it somewhere to get work done and its not operating the way it was intended means he doesnt feel he got his money's worth, so you cant get angry at me for feeling the pain of someone else. I didnt know you worked on his car, not like it would change my opinion or comment, but the problem has to be rectified.

And your doing the right thing by offering to fix his car, so atleast your willing to own up to something if it is your fault, most shops wouldnt even do that.

Dont make a difference to me if your mad, as long as you make the problem good with A-rod and he can make it to more of my meets, then im happy.

EDIT: And i do know about the maps "you can't run non-sequentially on a sequential map", doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand that, but this engineer figured that one out
.
Jason NYC

ROTARYROCKET7

hehe thanks kid. I dont mean to cause beef just want the tristate region to have some good rotary ppl, theres to many shabby shops like T&R, J&R and a whole bunch of other mojos that think they can slap an engine together they are rotary experts. Im sure rich and ihor know their **** since there still in bizness, i cant speak on it cuz i dont got an FD.

All i want the rotary community to have is shops and customers that are more like famz than sheep to wolves that all.

Im just vouching for the rotary ppl first, since we all konw keeping these babies running is an ever going quest!

Jason NYCizzle

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

I dont have any experience with this technical part of the car but doesnt the PFC go through a learning cycle on initial installation?

IIRC, 30 minutes?

I need to get myself a PFC so i can learn more and do more with my car.

BridgePorted12A

iTrader: (6)

(Edit: Rich on his brother's account)

Well, you've contributed absolutely *nothing* to this thread. Follow your own advice and 'don't speak on it.'

I have a reason to be pissed----I dont feel like being slandered by some kid who knows jack **** about these cars. You're not helping your 'boy,' you're uselessly stirring up trouble.

ROTARYROCKET7

Well you took it to a new level, no one aired you out but yourself. Im free to post where ever i want! As a favor to a-rod and lance, im not gonna continue to entertain your beef, so the kid can actually get some good service or something useful from this thread.

I dont know how to work on FDs, i never said that so stop looking for a way to make yourself feel better. I do know how to work on my own car, i learned my lessons going to "shops".

njstreetrx7

i really hope that WASNT ON RICH'S, ACCOUNT

nyt

iTrader: (1)

I was at the meet and helped block off some huge vac leak and found TWO loose bolts floating around under the uim which also wasn't secured to its bracket by the TB.

The car not accelerating right is from either a tps issue, a REALLY bad map, or throttle pump settings in the pfc.

Stepping on the gas at idle and having the car fall on its face does not have **** to do with seq or non seq maps. The idle settings and throttle pump settings should be the same either way.

Also, there is no way a nipple blew off from a metal hose with a barbed end unless it was not put on right. all of the other hoses were zip tied in place.

I don't know who put the car together but it seemed like a huge rush job. you don't leave bolts floating around in customers engine bays or let them leave with a bs map.


just my $0.02

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

Heres my 2 cents. The customer brought us the car with a ton of mods that he spent money on, leaving very little budgeted for installation. As soon as I saw under the hood I knew the turbos were gone. They were pushing a TON of oil everywhere. You couldn't dive the car without leaving a drip trail of oil. How the car was driven for that long in that condition I don't know. A set of good used turbos were sourced for a VERY good price, even though we recommended against it because its a crapshoot. (The car sat for 3 weeks while the customer sourced the turbos) Because of the fixed budget, we worked with the customer as best we could. There were NO shot cuts taken and I put alot of time into the car doing things that I didn't get payed for. Stuff like making brackets for an ill fitting Greddy universal breather tank that the customer wanted to use as an ast, modifying the stock ecu bracket to fit the power fc instead of just shoving it in there, making brackets for the HKS intake because the ones provided with the kit didn't fit the fan relays (others would have just left them hanging. Heat wrapping the downpipe for free, securing the driver's headlight because it wasn't properly done by the body shop that worked on the car in the past (headlight was just flopping up and down). Swaping turbine housings because the original ones looked better than the ones on the replacement set of turbos, etc etc. I even eliminated the a/c for free. We fixed a bunch of stuff a previous shop screwed up when performing the non sequential conversion. Swapped out the provided Unorthodox water pump pulley because it was allowing the water pump to slip.
I am not a tuner nor have I ever claimed to be. The invoice signed by the customer clearly states that THE CAR NEEDS TUNING. The customer's response to this was that he needs to wait untill he gets a clutch. If that is the case, then the car shouldn't be beaten on. Yet the day after the car is picked up I recieve a phone call from the customer that he is enjoying the car and boosting to 13-14 psi on an UNTUNED PFC. We were frequently nagged about when the car would be ready. Normally I would not even release a car in this state. I would have had my tuner come in and do a complete tune before the car left but this was not in the customer's budget at the time. The tps was set and even swapped out for a 2nd one btw.
The vacuum cap blowing off? That is a very common issue on any forced induction car. I suggested to the customer that if all the extra nipples on the intake and y pipe are not going to be used, they should be cut off, the openings welded closed, and the the pipes re-polished. Again, not in the customer's budget so we worked with what we had. These cars run extremely hot and its summer, so it is very easy for a plastic of rubber cap to blow off or crack because of the heat. Once again, why is the car being pushed when it is untuned?
A zip tie and a bolt in the engine bay? Give me a break. We made sure every hose was secured so I'm sorry if a piece of zip tie shot somewhere into the corner of the engine bay and I overlooked it. I also apologize if a bolt fell somewhere but I can assure you I replaced it with another one. As I recall the one that holds the manifold to the bracket was missing when the car arrived and I didn't have a proper length bolt to replace it. That bolt also does nothing. I eliminate the entire bracket alltogether on most cars with aftermarket coils or different manifolds.
As my business partner stated, the customer was told to immediately bring the car back to resolve any issues he was not satisfied with. The mature thing to do would have been to resolve this privately, not make a post like this on the forum. I don't care who made the post. The customer, friend, whoever. If anyone has a problem with me you are welcome to stop by and resolve it in person.
To some this up, this is a case where a young and inexperienced individual purchased a car and decided to modify it without proper research and planning. Eveyone makes mistakes, but you can't expect to take a 15 year old turbocharged rotary to run perfectly just because you buy a bunch of parts. There is much more to the equation.

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

Session Start (silver93t:antonio_rodriguez@gap.com): Sun Jun 17 12:12:56 2007
[12:12] Silver93T: hows the car running
[12:13] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: It's running well so far, only problem was that little cap on the AST. Everything else is holding up great. I'm really impressed by the way everything was installed correctly with no rigging.
[12:14] Silver93T: well we don'r rid ANYTHING here
[12:14] Silver93T: haha
[12:14] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: I'm still debating on what I should do about the tune. Should I weait for the clutch, or just go and get it now? Maybe the clutch will hold?
[12:14] Silver93T: id just get it tuned
[12:15] Silver93T: when the clutch goed it goes
[12:15] Silver93T: goes
[12:15] Silver93T: its not like you'll have to have it retuned for a new clutch
[12:15] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: well that's good to hear. And as much as I hated having to buy all new stuff(grommets, etc) I kind of feel a little more secure that nothing is going to break atm
[12:15] Silver93T: just tune it for 10 lbs
[12:16] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: on cool nights I creep a little bit
[12:16] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: 14
[12:16] Silver93T: wow
[12:16] Silver93T: that is alot ofr stock fuel injectors
[12:16] Silver93T: on
[12:17] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: right... I back off before I can get any higher, but thats at like 5500
[12:17] Silver93T: its the midpipe
[12:18] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: figured... I guess I'll tune up to 14, and set it at 10?
[12:18] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: Oh I want to show you that thread I was talking about
[12:18] Silver93T: yea
[12:18] Silver93T: ok
[12:19] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: is installing the A/C difficult?
[12:19] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: someone is asking me like I'm a guru or something lol
[12:19] Silver93T: depends
[12:19] Silver93T: the lines themselves arent too hard to put in
[12:19] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: its completely out of the car
[12:19] Silver93T: but the evaporator under the dash is a pain
[12:20] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: compressor is easy?
[12:20] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: here it is, the thread I was telling you about
[12:20] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=607490
[12:21] Silver93T: kind of annoying with engine in car
[12:21] Silver93T: its a tight fit
[12:21] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: hmm
[12:22] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: that girl wants to buy my A/C system, but I'm not sure if it works, you can get them tested, right?
[12:23] Silver93T: an ac shop would have to test it
[12:23] Silver93T: but not sure if there is a way to test stuff off the car
[12:23] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: guess I'll just sell it cheap w/o a warranty
[12:25] Silver93T: ok
[12:26] Silver93T: i mean hoses should be fine as long as there are no visible holes or cracks
[12:26] Silver93T: ok read your thread
[12:26] Silver93T: what about it
[12:26] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: thats what I was talking about, rynberg saying that wouldn't work
[12:27] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: tuning for 14 and running 10
[12:28] Silver93T: you can't tune for 14 because you dont have the intercooler or the fuel
[12:28] Silver93T: so it wouldn't be smart to hold it at 14 for any time
[12:29] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: ohhh... ok.. damn I should have upgraded the primaries to 850s...
[12:29] Silver93T: best ting to do would be to tune it for 12 or 13 (the limits of the stock ic and fuel system) and then add a bit more fuel on the top in case it creeps
[12:29] Silver93T: yea probably
[12:29] Silver93T: would have cost about $80 for a rail
[12:29] Silver93T: thats about it
[12:31] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: wow... pretty dumb move
[12:32] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: the primary is the difficult one to replace, correct?
[12:33] Silver93T: well you have all your sequential and emissions solnoids removed so its not that bad
[12:33] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: I might just do that when I have my clutch replaced.
[12:34] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: I didn't run into money until a few days before I came to pick up the car, so I couldnt just keep ordering ****
[12:35] Silver93T: yea i hear ya
[12:35] Silver93T: gotta go build a motor
[12:35] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: alright man thanks for the info I'll be in touch
[12:36] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: oh!
[12:36] Silver93T: i hate working sundays but fucked around with my bike the last 2 days
[12:36] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: come to that meet
[12:36] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: sunday
[12:36] Silver93T: which sunday?
[12:36] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: 24th
[12:36] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: coming up
[12:36] Silver93T: i got plans with my girl actually
[12:36] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: Rich said he might come... I'll be there, lance too
[12:36] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: ahh bring her with!
[12:36] Silver93T: no way
[12:36] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: haha alright man maybe another time
[12:36] Silver93T: shell be pissy the whole time
[12:37] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: lol I know exactly what you mean hahaha
[12:37] Silver93T: we were suppsoed to go hiking today but got too hot so got pushed back till next week
[12:37] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: my g/f said "me or the car"... you can clearly see my decision
[12:37] Silver93T: really?
[12:37] Silver93T: lol
[12:37] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: yep
[12:37] Silver93T: you need to have a blance of both i think
[12:37] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: **** that I was like well get out... she was mad I spent more on it than her
[12:37] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: well I started not to like her anyways so it was a golden opportunity
[12:44] Silver93T: yea
[12:44] Silver93T: good decision
[12:44] Silver93T: most girls are ******
[12:45] Silver93T: so when you find a good one hang on to her
[12:45] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: haha yeah... I needed a change anyways... but she was so damn hott...
[12:46] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: I'm going to buy an EBC, I'm hoping that will help my creep problem
[12:46] Silver93T: it should help
[12:46] Silver93T: the power fc is a really crapp boost controller
[12:46] Silver93T: crappy
[12:46] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: hmm
[12:46] Silver93T: what are you looking at
[12:46] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: Greddy profec b
[12:47] Silver93T: which one
[12:47] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: umm the manual **** one... type s?
[12:47] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: idr
[12:47] Silver93T: ok good
[12:47] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: I just decided to do it now
[12:47] Silver93T: ive had nothing but bad luck with the spec 2
[12:47] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: I read the **** one is better
[12:47] Silver93T: its bad with fast spooling turbos
[12:47] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: ahh
[12:48] Silver93T: yea just ge tthe basic s
[12:48] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: lol yeah thats no good hahaha
[12:48] Silver93T: or if you can find one an old b
[12:48] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: alrighty... if I find one I'll pm you for your opinion if you don't mind
[12:48] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: what about rotorfest, comingto that?
[12:48] Silver93T: maybe
[12:49] Silver93T: when is it?
[12:49] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: 7-8
[12:49] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: 3rd sunday away
[12:49] Silver93T: what month
[12:49] Silver93T: oh
[12:49] Silver93T: got a wedding
[12:49] Silver93T: the 7th
[12:49] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: geez man
[12:49] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: nooo
[12:49] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: 7/8/07
[12:49] Silver93T: might be able to stop by the 8th
[12:49] Silver93T: wedding is sat
[12:49] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: its not on the 7th
[12:50] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: saturday
[12:50] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: its on sunday
[12:50] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: the 8th
[12:50] Silver93T: ok i might come then
[12:50] Silver93T: where is it
[12:50] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: umm mid NJ
[12:50] Silver93T: k
[12:50] Silver93T: gotta run ttyl
[12:50] antonio_rodriguez@gap.com: later
Session Close (antonio_rodriguez@gap.com): Sun Jun 17 12:50:49 2007