Love/Hate relationships, The true story of owning an FD Heartbeaks welcomed.
08-02-10, 04:05 PM
#1
Love/Hate relationships, The true story of owning an FD Heartbeaks welcomed.
So my FD just broke my heart again. more on that can be found in this thread..https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/help-diagnose-car-starts-but-dies-misfires-blue-smoke-fml-914399/
but curious to hear some of the love hate relationships you have with your car. I wanna hear some horror stories and reasons why youve continued on and kept the car..
for me heres my endless list of pain.
04-07 wb rx8 bought it with 7k miles. in summer of 07 turbo'd it, fall of 08 engine blew, faulty motor from factory. the bolt used in the e-shaft was the wrong one, eshaft broke........ parted the car out, sold the turbo got a reman engine. finally got the car back 2 week later found out it was a crack block... nice coolant/oil mixture..... warenteed, 2nd reman, installed fired up sounded like crap, bad compression.warented, reman engine 3. finally got it right, got the car back about 8 months and 3 motors later. sold it off in 08 on its FOURTH motor. 4 motors, 3 years, not even 30k miles....
08 baby blue auto rx7- arrived, POS, too many problems, didnt know anything about 7's or cars so sold it off 2 weeks later. never ran, no miles.
08 flew to IL and bought my white rx7 from sean at ASEPC... drove it around for a little.
09 made it to deals gap, on the way back blew the motor (ran too lean). hello engine number 2.
10 made it to deals and back, slow trickle of problems/ upgrades and that leaves me to where im at now....
so basically 3 cars, 7 motors, 6 years and just breaking about 40,000 miles.... yet i still own a rotary......... nor do i really know why anymore....
lets hear your stories/ why u havent abandoned rotaries yet lol....
but curious to hear some of the love hate relationships you have with your car. I wanna hear some horror stories and reasons why youve continued on and kept the car..
for me heres my endless list of pain.
04-07 wb rx8 bought it with 7k miles. in summer of 07 turbo'd it, fall of 08 engine blew, faulty motor from factory. the bolt used in the e-shaft was the wrong one, eshaft broke........ parted the car out, sold the turbo got a reman engine. finally got the car back 2 week later found out it was a crack block... nice coolant/oil mixture..... warenteed, 2nd reman, installed fired up sounded like crap, bad compression.warented, reman engine 3. finally got it right, got the car back about 8 months and 3 motors later. sold it off in 08 on its FOURTH motor. 4 motors, 3 years, not even 30k miles....
08 baby blue auto rx7- arrived, POS, too many problems, didnt know anything about 7's or cars so sold it off 2 weeks later. never ran, no miles.
08 flew to IL and bought my white rx7 from sean at ASEPC... drove it around for a little.
09 made it to deals gap, on the way back blew the motor (ran too lean). hello engine number 2.
10 made it to deals and back, slow trickle of problems/ upgrades and that leaves me to where im at now....
so basically 3 cars, 7 motors, 6 years and just breaking about 40,000 miles.... yet i still own a rotary......... nor do i really know why anymore....
lets hear your stories/ why u havent abandoned rotaries yet lol....
08-02-10, 04:27 PM
#2
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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My stock engine lasted about 7-8 years before I got over-zealous with the mods while not upgrading the fuel system
2nd motor was a reman (never again) and absolute junk - popped at light load/boost
3rd motor has been great, no issues except for some copper and lead in the oil.
The lesson learned with rotaries is you cannot cut any corners and you can't do anything on the cheap or it will surely bite you in the ***. You must keep up the maintenance religiously. All the supporting equipment and the build itself has to be tip-top. These engines produce very high hp per cc and with that comes increased need for robust parts. These cars will quickly alienate shade tree mechanics and those who do things on the cheap, but done right, they are immensely rewarding to drive, and surprise (if not downright shock) not a few Porsche, BMW, F body, and Mustang owners who consider them nothing more than a tasty snack.
It's still worth it, 12 years later.
2nd motor was a reman (never again) and absolute junk - popped at light load/boost
3rd motor has been great, no issues except for some copper and lead in the oil.
The lesson learned with rotaries is you cannot cut any corners and you can't do anything on the cheap or it will surely bite you in the ***. You must keep up the maintenance religiously. All the supporting equipment and the build itself has to be tip-top. These engines produce very high hp per cc and with that comes increased need for robust parts. These cars will quickly alienate shade tree mechanics and those who do things on the cheap, but done right, they are immensely rewarding to drive, and surprise (if not downright shock) not a few Porsche, BMW, F body, and Mustang owners who consider them nothing more than a tasty snack.
It's still worth it, 12 years later.
08-02-10, 04:31 PM
#3
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Oh, and no offense but you have to wonder about someone who paints engine pasrts pink.....sheesh, that is low rent....have some class, the FD is above that stuff
08-02-10, 04:49 PM
#4
ironically how you will call my painted parts "low rent" yet they are all powder coated but someone else who rattle cans theirs, no comment... Love how people want to judge my car because its "pink" funny how everyones opinion would change if i painted it a color of thier choice or "chrome"
08-02-10, 04:53 PM
#5
YOUR TRIANGLE NIGHTMARE
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honestly you have to have tough skin with an FD they may not be popping motors left and right but they will have you scratching your head fairly often, or maybe thats my luck. Either way thats not all bad I personally enjoy a challenge and doing a little wrenching every so often.
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08-02-10, 05:28 PM
#8
www.silverbulletrx7.com
Stories... everybody has some I guess but generally my car has been pretty solid over the years, since 1998. I even used it as a daily driver for many years. The only odd thing is that I lost two pressure sensors. I have even tracked my car many times and auto-x it several times a year. Yea... my car has been good to me. 150K miles and still going.
Oh and I have used spray paint in my engine bay. Rattle cans rule! LOL
Oh and I have used spray paint in my engine bay. Rattle cans rule! LOL
08-02-10, 05:48 PM
#9
For the motor build itself: take it to a professional, use good condition parts, and try the RA/ALS "unbreakable" seals--not because they are the 100% best seals for every purpose and application, but because they are the most forgiving affordable seals out there.
Now this is going to sound completely counter-intuitive, but stop paying other people to tune your car--even reputable people. I'm telling you this and I tune FD's for money. Most of the people I know (including myself) who have had long term success with modified turbo rotary engines tune their own cars. They spend a lot of up-front time logging and testing the car for 6 months to a year, and then they have it mostly worked out. You might fiddle with the idle once in a while or something but the car will run safe no matter what the conditions are, because you personally tested it in most every normal situation.
The problem is that these cars don't have the "modern" ecu options with the learning capability of say a factory Evo ECU. So the computer won't bail you out if the weather or fuel quality changes. I count the Rx-8 in that category as well because it wasn't designed for a turbo and its knock control is not very useful.
Now this is going to sound completely counter-intuitive, but stop paying other people to tune your car--even reputable people. I'm telling you this and I tune FD's for money. Most of the people I know (including myself) who have had long term success with modified turbo rotary engines tune their own cars. They spend a lot of up-front time logging and testing the car for 6 months to a year, and then they have it mostly worked out. You might fiddle with the idle once in a while or something but the car will run safe no matter what the conditions are, because you personally tested it in most every normal situation.
The problem is that these cars don't have the "modern" ecu options with the learning capability of say a factory Evo ECU. So the computer won't bail you out if the weather or fuel quality changes. I count the Rx-8 in that category as well because it wasn't designed for a turbo and its knock control is not very useful.
08-02-10, 06:44 PM
#10
No it's not Turbo'd
Bought my first Rx-7 (94 Touring) in 2002, right around the time I joined the forum, did a bunch of "Safety" mods, AST etc... then I got a bit happy with my right foot, got into a turn where there was some gravel in the road, and flipped it.
Bought a new(to me) 93 R1, and started all over after looking to get a different vehicle, I couldn't beat the performance looks, and sheer animal attraction I had to the car. I built up the car, had two motors blow each after about 12-18 months of use, had SteveK come out and try and tune it with bad ignition breakup, trying all kinds of things HKS Twinpower, AEM Ignition Amp, Colder Plugs etc... nothing really worked well. I had warped my latest motor's apex seals and was wearing them back in, when someone tried to beat me off a red light where the lanes merged soon thereafter... and I wasn't having it, I floored it, spun rubber in first and second, beat him, just to have the idle fall flat on its face @ about 40+ mph... which 35 was the max on that stretch.
New motor Time, I was staring down a bill of $8+k for reman, rebuild, porting, new turbo, basically a new motor + turbos... At that point I wanted a house, and was not willing to keep sinking more and more money into the car, so I figured if I was going to do this I was going to put an end to the hemorrhaging, and put a V8 into it, hence I'm no longer a rotor head, but I had a hell of a ride while I was, and the car has run flawlessly ever since, I have my issues battles with the electrical every once in a while. But I suppose that's expected with these cars.
Oh and the reason I couldn't sell it to some other rotor head, was I loved the car, the shape, and the fact that it had 0 body damage, and was straight as an arrow, and I was uncertain I'd ever be able to find a car like it again, if I wanted to later. So I kept it and still drive it when it's fully operating 1X a week or more...
Bought a new(to me) 93 R1, and started all over after looking to get a different vehicle, I couldn't beat the performance looks, and sheer animal attraction I had to the car. I built up the car, had two motors blow each after about 12-18 months of use, had SteveK come out and try and tune it with bad ignition breakup, trying all kinds of things HKS Twinpower, AEM Ignition Amp, Colder Plugs etc... nothing really worked well. I had warped my latest motor's apex seals and was wearing them back in, when someone tried to beat me off a red light where the lanes merged soon thereafter... and I wasn't having it, I floored it, spun rubber in first and second, beat him, just to have the idle fall flat on its face @ about 40+ mph... which 35 was the max on that stretch.
New motor Time, I was staring down a bill of $8+k for reman, rebuild, porting, new turbo, basically a new motor + turbos... At that point I wanted a house, and was not willing to keep sinking more and more money into the car, so I figured if I was going to do this I was going to put an end to the hemorrhaging, and put a V8 into it, hence I'm no longer a rotor head, but I had a hell of a ride while I was, and the car has run flawlessly ever since, I have my issues battles with the electrical every once in a while. But I suppose that's expected with these cars.
Oh and the reason I couldn't sell it to some other rotor head, was I loved the car, the shape, and the fact that it had 0 body damage, and was straight as an arrow, and I was uncertain I'd ever be able to find a car like it again, if I wanted to later. So I kept it and still drive it when it's fully operating 1X a week or more...
08-02-10, 08:37 PM
#11
mine's not as bad as yours, but i had a turbo G35 coupe and had always wanted a 3rd gen rx-7. Lost all the money i put into the g35 and got rid of it for the fd. The fd was smoking, had all the symptoms of a leaky turbo, turns out it was the oil control ring. So new engine right away, then i've been upgrading ever since, its been out of service more often than in service haha. But thats mostly because i take it apart to add stuff. I think I might actually enjoy working on it more than driving it.
08-02-10, 09:18 PM
#12
Only love, no hate stories yet.... granted I've only owned it a year & put less than 3k miles on it.
Restoring the suspension was a blast...
The true test will be my current GT35R conversion..... Praying for my little good compression Jspec engine. Hell, everything else is new, so if it goes, it shouldn't be too bad...
Restoring the suspension was a blast...
The true test will be my current GT35R conversion..... Praying for my little good compression Jspec engine. Hell, everything else is new, so if it goes, it shouldn't be too bad...
08-02-10, 09:44 PM
#13
Unhealthy Obsession
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Benny's HBP was built with all the necessities and by no means were corners cut.
He has gone to the extent of having his car down for months just for reliability mods and security measures. Its just really bad luck for the most part.
Arghx has made a good point on self tuning. you have more than enough experience and understanding to start tuning. Split the price of a Data logit with me
If anything "mild" your FD and enjoy it as a running car for some time.
He has gone to the extent of having his car down for months just for reliability mods and security measures. Its just really bad luck for the most part.
Arghx has made a good point on self tuning. you have more than enough experience and understanding to start tuning. Split the price of a Data logit with me
If anything "mild" your FD and enjoy it as a running car for some time.
08-02-10, 09:51 PM
#14
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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08-03-10, 01:09 AM
#16
For the motor build itself: take it to a professional, use good condition parts, and try the RA/ALS "unbreakable" seals--not because they are the 100% best seals for every purpose and application, but because they are the most forgiving affordable seals out there.
Now this is going to sound completely counter-intuitive, but stop paying other people to tune your car--even reputable people. I'm telling you this and I tune FD's for money. Most of the people I know (including myself) who have had long term success with modified turbo rotary engines tune their own cars. They spend a lot of up-front time logging and testing the car for 6 months to a year, and then they have it mostly worked out. You might fiddle with the idle once in a while or something but the car will run safe no matter what the conditions are, because you personally tested it in most every normal situation.
Now this is going to sound completely counter-intuitive, but stop paying other people to tune your car--even reputable people. I'm telling you this and I tune FD's for money. Most of the people I know (including myself) who have had long term success with modified turbo rotary engines tune their own cars. They spend a lot of up-front time logging and testing the car for 6 months to a year, and then they have it mostly worked out. You might fiddle with the idle once in a while or something but the car will run safe no matter what the conditions are, because you personally tested it in most every normal situation.
i would LOVE to tune my own car but i feel like thats such a gamble im scared to blow it....
mine's not as bad as yours, but i had a turbo G35 coupe and had always wanted a 3rd gen rx-7. Lost all the money i put into the g35 and got rid of it for the fd. The fd was smoking, had all the symptoms of a leaky turbo, turns out it was the oil control ring. So new engine right away, then i've been upgrading ever since, its been out of service more often than in service haha. But thats mostly because i take it apart to add stuff. I think I might actually enjoy working on it more than driving it.
yeah cuz if you read my post that would be irrelevant as my E-shaft CRACKED due to the FACTORY using the wrong bolt.
08-03-10, 01:26 AM
#17
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Some reason hearing these stories bring a tear of joy/sadness to my eye.... kind of like when you just purchased a new set of 19 inch HRE's with P-zeros and seeing them on your car for the first time. Then immediately getting handed the credit card bill for it from your wife. Yeah, kinda like that....
08-03-10, 08:17 AM
#18
Ronald..
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Wow, Ive had nothing but rotaries for almost 6 years. It first started in my senior year of high school when I bought my first FD(my money, no bank of mom and dad here!) To be honest is was a hunk of junk, but I really loved that car more than any other. I had all your typical problems ast blew up, radiator end tanks cracked, I was only boosting 4psi on one turbo, interior was a mess, had to replace most of the suspension( car had almost 200k on it). After everything was fixed and upgraded the car ran great until I decided to get a mid pipe and not port the waste gates. I ran 18-20psi on the bone stock fuel system for almost a month until the inevitable happened. The motor was trashed so in came a reman. I think I might of had 800-900 miles on that motor before the car was run into a guard rail by some drunk idiot in a VW. (totaled)
Rotary #2. I couldn't stand not having a rotary anymore but I couldn't afford another FD so I settled on a TII FC. The car was great and had zero issues, it even made more power than my previous FD but it just wasn't the same. So I bit the bullet and parted it out.
Rotary #3 Now I have my gorgeous CYM R1 and couldn't be happier. It has a very low mileage motor in it and under 65k chassis miles
BTW- all of these cars have been daily driven in snow rain or shine!
Rotary #2. I couldn't stand not having a rotary anymore but I couldn't afford another FD so I settled on a TII FC. The car was great and had zero issues, it even made more power than my previous FD but it just wasn't the same. So I bit the bullet and parted it out.
Rotary #3 Now I have my gorgeous CYM R1 and couldn't be happier. It has a very low mileage motor in it and under 65k chassis miles
BTW- all of these cars have been daily driven in snow rain or shine!
08-03-10, 10:36 AM
#22
Mine let me down on the dyno saturday 7/31. After new injectors and a meth system my buddy and I did some street tuning and it was pulling hard. Take it to the dyno and it was jerky and all over the place. The haltech kept loosing connection to the laptop, it was so disappointing.
08-03-10, 11:28 AM
#23
Idk why you went through so many engines/cars when you have IRP and JPR in our area.
Idk if its your driving style or your constant mind changing that is leading to your never ending battle with setting up your "perfect FD". I cant imagine how much money was wasted lol
Not really criticizing or anything, i dont care what you do. Im just wondering as i have seen soo many threads of yours in the past and it makes me wonder.
As for me. I decided i wanted an FD after i owned my FC almost 10 years ago. I decided to sell the car i have truely loved at the time, (eagle talon) to help me aid my finance. After months and months of searching, i couldnt find one. But i was still saving at the time.
A little over a year later, a guy came to my dads job where he worked at lexus at the time, to apply for a mechanics job. My dad saw the FD in the parking lot and immediately started to look for the owner. He found him, asked him how much was he selling it for but he didnt want to sell it. The great negotiation skills my dad has, has lead the guy to sell it to me about 2 weeks later and the car was in my driveway 3 weeks since the day the guy originally went to my dads job.
As for the car, the car gave me ZERO engine problems. None, nada, zip. Some people may criticize my driving style. I call it being over cautious.
I have put only 12-13k miles since i first owned it and every problem i had, was non engine related. From a clutch issue, to a grounding issue, to a coolant leak issue. That was about it in almost 7 years or 13k miles.
Since i have a daily driver and since im VERY selective on when i drive the FD, i can hope to foresee minimal problems in the future. I dont mind fixing stuff because i know that comes with these cars, given its age and the usage but i think most of the FD owners here have broken FD's because of what THEY do to the car.
If its not broke, DONT fix it. Its a never ending cycle of repairs when you fool around with it so much.
Idk if its your driving style or your constant mind changing that is leading to your never ending battle with setting up your "perfect FD". I cant imagine how much money was wasted lol
Not really criticizing or anything, i dont care what you do. Im just wondering as i have seen soo many threads of yours in the past and it makes me wonder.
As for me. I decided i wanted an FD after i owned my FC almost 10 years ago. I decided to sell the car i have truely loved at the time, (eagle talon) to help me aid my finance. After months and months of searching, i couldnt find one. But i was still saving at the time.
A little over a year later, a guy came to my dads job where he worked at lexus at the time, to apply for a mechanics job. My dad saw the FD in the parking lot and immediately started to look for the owner. He found him, asked him how much was he selling it for but he didnt want to sell it. The great negotiation skills my dad has, has lead the guy to sell it to me about 2 weeks later and the car was in my driveway 3 weeks since the day the guy originally went to my dads job.
As for the car, the car gave me ZERO engine problems. None, nada, zip. Some people may criticize my driving style. I call it being over cautious.
I have put only 12-13k miles since i first owned it and every problem i had, was non engine related. From a clutch issue, to a grounding issue, to a coolant leak issue. That was about it in almost 7 years or 13k miles.
Since i have a daily driver and since im VERY selective on when i drive the FD, i can hope to foresee minimal problems in the future. I dont mind fixing stuff because i know that comes with these cars, given its age and the usage but i think most of the FD owners here have broken FD's because of what THEY do to the car.
If its not broke, DONT fix it. Its a never ending cycle of repairs when you fool around with it so much.
08-03-10, 11:53 AM
#24
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I can relate. My FD was perfect totally stock except for reliability mods. Then I downed it to go single turbo, changed my mind on the turbo setup in the middle, 5 months later I go to tune it, and the tuner blows the engine. Granted, it was a reman, but he still detonated it. So here I am, 8 months later just finishing up the rebuild, only having driven the car for about a week in the last year. Everything could be done much faster, but I like to take my time. I stick with the rotary because I already owned a Z06, and if I wanted a RWD V8 car, I would have just kept it.
08-03-10, 11:58 AM
#25
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Honestly, if you don't want to get on the boost, you may as well sell the FD and get an RX-8. The FD is made to boost, it wants to be driven aggressively: 15 psi-mash-the-go-pedal-to-the-floor-8000 rpm aggressively, and I wouldn't have it any other way
Last edited by no_more_rice; 08-03-10 at 12:00 PM.