If you're talking about protecting the radiator from rocks or excessive airflow, then sure...

Quick quiz... where does the intercooler in a V-mount configuration sit?

A) Above the radiator.
B) Above the radiator.
C) Above the goddamn radiator.
D) All of the above.

 

So what do u think is better Jim?

BTW, I could be wrong, but do the VMIC not come with a divider that helsp ensure equal distribution of air to the radiator and IC as well as serve as a heat barrier?

 

I thought V-mount kits have shrouds that separate airflow between rad and ic therefore the heat from the rad doesn't affect the ic that much?

 

I think V-mount or SMIC is preferable to a front mount for the reasons I listed above (not to mention ease of installation), but there's no significant performance difference between the two that I've seen. At that point, it becomes a matter of personal preference.

That said, I'd buy another ASP large intercooler.

 

OK folks, u heard that man.

Anyone that pushes FMIC don't know what they're talking about.

Move along,

 

Yes. I looked up scc test of M2 med, and on 65F day cruising at 70mph, temp meas'd exit the IC was 67F. A FMIC should not beat this, meas'd at IC exit or at PFC sensor. The posted 23F improvement is questionable .... mabe just an ambient temp shift.

I measured 2-4 psi before the TB cruising at 80 mph. Not high enough to hoot as KTW correctly noted, and not enough pressure or mass flow for a significant IC comparo test, as you correctly noted.

 

Well after the *weight effecting high speed accel* debacle I'm glad I got one right!

Something is/was wrong with the data presented in this thread on the IC temps, like you said it could have been an ambient temp issue, or maybe he was following a truck.

Jeff

 

I had the greddy SMIC before upgrading to the VMIC at 60f ambient air temps I was seing 31c on the PFC as the lowest temp..now with the VMIC I am seing 23c as the lowest temp .

This is cruising at about 75MPH when I go WOT it goes up to about 27c and the SMIC would go up to about 38c.

For the most part that I noticed other than temp drop was my boost I lost the lag I had when I converted..

 

Which SMIC were you using?

EDIT: Sorry, I was just focusing on the temperatures.

 

I do believe he said greddy SMIC

 

One of these? No wonder you had lag. Note the 180 degree turn into the lower end tank.



I doubt the differences would be as significant when compared to an SMIC with equivalent core size and pressure drop.

 

yup, thats the one...would never buy that again...

 

Yep. You can't really compare the GReddy/Trust, HKS, PFS, or other stock replacement ICs to a large core SMIC, FMIC, or VMIC. They make compromises (as shown) with the end tanks to reuse some or all of the stock piping, and their cores are considerably smaller.

 

Cossie has had the PFS SMIC, the Blitz FMIC, and the HKS VMIC. He has had extensive track runs with all three setups and has found the VMIC to be the most effective setup in having low water and the lowest air intake temperatures.

 

That's true, but since the radiator is mounted at a different angle there is less air restricting flow to the intercooler itself than with a standard SMIC. A SMIC only has a 2 inch duct pushing air in it while a VMIC has unrestricted air flow from the front end.

The only drawback I see with a VMIC is:
1.price
2.the fans sit pretty low so that if you ever bottom out your car you can potentially damage your cooling system.

 

The fans do not sit low at all, the lowest part of my fans sit about 3inches above the lip, if you look under the front bumper you would not even see it..

Jimlab, the radiator may be below the intercooler but the fans blows the hot air to the ground rather than to the intercooler

 

Of course he would, because the PFS SMIC is a joke, and the FMIC blocks airflow to the radiator. However, I fail to see how intake air temperature would be higher with a front mount than with the V-mount. After all, it's the first thing the air hits, and should be immune to heat soak from the radiator and engine.

 

3. Installation. The SMIC is by far the least complicated of the three to install.

 

Kevin, are you only here to toot your own horn abour your accomplishments in the distant past? We've all heard it many times before.

Street car? Only picture I remember seeing of your car at the strip I seem to remember it lacking headlights, the signal lights, it appeared to lack the bumper reinforcement, and I can only speculate that the interior was also stripped. You were presumably running race gas as well, and I could see the slicks. AFAIK it had no converters at all. That's your definition of a street car?

We applaud your past RX-7 accomplishments. But your ET or MPH accomplishments prove little about your IC design. Ray Lockhead was running in the 8's in the 1/4 with a tiny horizontally mounted underhood IC. Steve the datalogit guy ran an 11 (11.1 I think?) with a stock IC. Using your flawed logic, a tiny underhood IC should be good for running 8's and the stock IC should be good for 11's.

While the above is obviously possible (it happened), it doesn't mean it is the best way, that it is reliable, or that the IC is not holding back that car from even more power.

It isn't that simple. The ASP IC keeps my intake temps thoroughly hot. This worries me, esp since I am not driving around with race gas in the tank. If you can't appreciate that fact, then perhaps you'd want to drive your car around with no intercooler at all?

If you can't admit that there are flaws in the design of your intercooler, and that there are other designs that are clear improvements in many areas, then your bias is so great that I can't help but think that all you are doing is defending your IC because it's yours. Maybe it has little to do with design and more to do with your pride.

Wade

 

Granted, and is it really a matter of potential use and personal preference...

First of all, as I said above, just because one car can run a 10 in the 1/4 with it really doesn't prove anything about the performance of the IC relative to other IC's... all it proves is it is possible to run a 10 with that intercooler. It is also possible to run an 8 second 1/4 with no intercooler at all... So how is your 10 second 1/4 relevant? It isn't, unless someone is trying to build a car exactly like yours using the exact same formula.


Yes, the large SMIC is used by lots of lapping cars in hot climates. Lots of those cars use race gas on the track, and some of them run lower boost as well. Their main concern is water temps also, more than air temps. So again, this isn't relevant to people not using their car in the same manner.

For instance, those who drive on the street 99% of the time and want good performance under those conditions. For those people, the large SMIC can be a performance problem. It is irrelevant if someone else uses the large SMIC for lapping days with race gas.

I admit, that when I bought the large SMIC years ago, my concern was to be able to hold up during driver's schools. I'm not doing those any more, and I just joy ride on the street, hence my change in preference from a SMIC to a FMIC.

Wade

 

Sure it sits above the radiator, but there is a big difference. In a SMIC setup the radiator fans constantly blow super hot air directly at the IC. With a V mount setup the radiator fans blow the hot air away from the IC. Plus you get a lot more air flow to the IC with the V mount, especially at low speeds. The endtanks, ect dont heat soak because they are constantly being hit with air, the endtanks of a SMIC dont get any air except what the radiator blows on them.

I like SMIC better than FMIC and I ran a custom SMIC for years, but I think the V mount is a better setup than a SMIC and a FMIC....is it worth the price? I guess that just depends on how much money you have laying around. I'm just making my own, that'll be much cheaper than buying a "kit" plus I can control what cores, ect I use.

I should probably also mention the only SMIC I like (besides my custom) is the ASP/M2 line of IC's used with straight ic pipes.

Stephen

 

ref: road course events, VMIC

The PFC ic core was upgraded to one with very low drop and high efficiency, and is not much smaller than the ASP med. Slighly more drop due to the inlet elbo. With proper intake, I would expect close to ASP performance on the track, since the small cooling air duct limits what a smic can do there. SCC measured 158F exiting the m2 med on a hot track day, where 250F was meas'd with stock IC.

Generally accepted that at speed all air hitting the nose opening doesn't go though the nose to the rad(s). "Spill over" occurs due to flow resistance. The V-mount, done right, will maximize the total airflow through the nose opening, due to the least down stream resistance, and thus offer the highest total cooling potential at the road course event.

All fmics will cause water temps to rise, to different degrees based on design, with blitz and true-apexi some of the better choices since they bypass some air directly to the rad. The greddy looks to be among the worst, as the nose opening is blocked by both the core and the end tanks. Big oil coolers help mitigate coolant heating problem. If +250F coolant temps don't scare you, run NPG+ and FMIC for lowest intake temps w/o water inj on the road course.

ref: street only, FMIC

If one is most interested in coldest manifold air temps, in all types of traffic and ac use, for whatever reason, and does not do road course events, then FMIC will be the best option. Stock fans will pull ambient air thru the core, cooling even a hot air intake, if you don't mind running the fans alot. This is also fine for drag racing and spirited street use.

ref: gen use and ease of install, SMIC

The SMIC's like M2/ASP med/lg offer drag performance equal to best of other types, if not heat soaked. On road course they are better vs FMIC for coolant temps, and with water inj could approach the v-mount peak intake temps. On hiway, equal to all others of similar size. Also less prone to stone damage vs FMIC. In traffic, will heat soak more than others. Would take fans/shrouds/rad-fan-relays, insulation, IC sprayer, etc, to match fmic intake temps.

my $.02

 

Especially the Greddy SMIC.

 

You mean around the duct in front of the IC, right? They'd have to be blowing it out the front of the car and having it come back in the duct for it to pass through the fins.

A V-mount is still in the engine bay, and we all know the engine bays of FDs are hot. It also puts the IC closer to the engine. Until someone provides data that shows that a V-mount doesn't heat soak as badly as a large SMIC, I'll continue to believe they both suffer from the same problem, and that problem quickly goes away once the car is back up to speed.

 

With usual SMIC, duct typically seals against face of IC core and end tanks. Most of the tank surfaces are heated by hot air exiting the fans. Hot air exiting rad fans will also reverse flow thru the IC core. Just stick your and in the IC duct inlet when rad is hot and fans are on, or hang a piece of tissue paper near the inlet.

For this reason, heat soak in traffic is most severe on SMIC, vs VMIC. FMIC has the least heat soak, aided by use of fans.