I hate to give up using the "search" button but Im tuly stumped.

Info: I just did the poor mans non seq, removed the solenoid rack, air pump, installed the entire block off plate kit, etc. I also installed a DP, the car still has stock main cat and a aftemarket cat back. This was all done because the car had boost issues, and I wanted to make it more reliable.

Problem: It all seems to be throttle position related. Basically, you cant open the throttle to where the secondary plates open, if you do the car wants to fall on its face and pop and backfire. This happens at idle, or driving down the road. The car idles and revs just fine, as long as you dont open the secondaries. Of course, the car builds 0 boost like this. I have checked the codes, they all pertain to everything that was disconected. I have even reset the ECU. I have checked the TPS connector, MAP sensor, all connections(or shall we say whats left of them ) etc.

I also replaced all the injector o-ringsand a new FPD, mainly because the secondaries were leaking pretty good, the whole housing was saturated. I did everything by the book, and it still seems to leak right nicely. Do the injectors themselves have issues? I have never dealt with these kinds of injectors before.

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I also just wanted to say thanks for all the great info, writeups, pictures and diagrams that I have found over here on the board. I dont know if I can contribute much, but you guys have definitely paved the way for alot of people.

 

Oops, I meant to say primaries.

 

What mods do you have?

 

what ecu do you have? are you sure your not running in to fuel cut? where did you get your new injectors from and how big are they? Also, how much fuel pressure are you getting?

 

The car has a stock ECU, an aftermarket air filter, a catback, and a DP. Stock mid pipe. I didnt replace the injectors, just the o-rings. I havent checked FP yet. As far as boost control, I just ran a straight line from a boost source to the WG actuator, seeing as when I tested it it opens at 10psi. I still dont know how that will work yet, as I cant even open the throttle up.

How would it be fuel cut? On every other turbo car I have dealt with fuel cut is a measure that the stock ECU implements when overboost occurs, and in this case the car wont even see boost. In fact, about the highest vacuum it will get to with the primary butterfly opening is 2 inches or so.

From everything I have read, it didnt seem to be that big of a deal for all the unplugged solenoids to be left as is, that only a check engine light would occur. If done this way, would it go into limp mode or something? I didnt see anyone mention of this happening, so I assumed it would be OK. Even at that I noticed that even most limp mode situations the car will still see a couple psi. The car can rev to 5k or so, its just that any point in time where you want to feed it enough throttle to where the secondary TB butterflies want to open, it just wants to die/pop/sputter. So it really doesnt matter what RPM, it just when you try to give it WOT, it just dies/stumbles/pops, etc.

 

Do this:

plug the solenoids back in...you don't have to run any boost sources to them or mount them. Just leave them hanging.

Did you take out the wiring harness and then re-install it? Did the injector plugs go in the right place? One of them should have a red piece of tape on it...that's the front injector.

 

Thats one thing I thought about trying, I didnt know if it would work or not. The only other thing is its a CA emissions car, so the EGR has a temp sensor on it. I guess I would need to not only plug it back in but run some vac lines to it and just leave it hanging somewhere out of the way? As far as the injectors go, I marked everything with paint pens when disassembling everything, and just put it back where it was. The car ran fine before so Im assuming its all still correct.

I didnt see anyone warning about the car going in limp mode with all the solenoids unplugged. I figured if it was a problem someone would have mentioned it. I dont mind plugging the solenoids all back in at this point, I just want it to run right. Back to work...

 

The symptoms you are describing sounds a lot like limp mode, but the things you did shouldn't cause that. Oil metering pump malfunctions will put you in limp mode... I'm not sure what else will. Also, I would think you would get a trouble code for whatever was putting you in limp mode.

When you say your injectors are still leaking, what do you mean? Is it leaking gas past the o-rings and onto the top of your engine? Something doesn't sound right.

 

Heres the codes I am currently getting: 25, 28, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 39, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 50. I thought of the oil metering also, that was one of the thing is came across while searching about limp mode, etc, but that code isnt thrown.

It appears they are still leaking out the top, but not as bad as before. The Primary injector body appears to be a little damp. Not good. I took a lot of time making sure I did the o-rings right, and have replaced o-rings in many other cars, but I am finding out a 7 isnt a "other" car. The car ran fine like this before, so even though its a problem, I dont think its related to the main problem I am having. I will definitely fix it, though. From what I hear fuel causes fires.

 

Thats strange how you replaced the o-rings and they are still leaking gas. Its kind of hard to screw up, and it sounds like you know what you're doing.

I don't really have any other ideas about your problem... sounds like limp mode to me though. But like you said, I just checked your codes and they are all solenoids, which should not be a problem.

Good luck.

 

Problem solved.

It looks like it was definitely a limp mode issue. I plugged all the solenoids back in, car runs great. It seems weird that nobody has mentioned it before. So for the record, it *seems* as if though its IMPERATIVE to run resistors or just leave the solenoids plugged in w/o any vacuum lines. The car has a stock ECU and has California emissions, just for reference. Maybe someone, somewhere mentioned that it needed to be done and I missed it?

As far as the injectors go, going to have to pull it apart to recheck everything.

Even though the WG opens at 10psi on the tester, the car only runs 6psi with a straight line to it. Kind of weird considering the stock DSM WG actuator I tested opened at 10 psi also, and they run ~9psi with a straight line. It feels like a dog too, so I figure the guage is right.

I just wanted to mention the fact we bought a DP and block off plate kit from the RX7 Store for the car. The block off plate kit appeared to have doubles of some of the plates, so some were left unused, while some of the other plates were missing. Yes, I checked and double checked. The DP wouldnt fit, not only was the rear flange cocked wrong, but even if it was right the bolt pattern was to wide for the factory mid pipe studs. I notched one of the holes and cut the DP about 3" from the rear and rotated it and rewelded. Maybe it was made for a car running an aftermarket mid-pipe? I guess thats what you get for $250. It was otherwise a nice piece, and they had quick service.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and help.

 

I would be interested to know if anyone else had problems with just unplugging the solenoids and not installing resistors? Does it put the car in limp mode?

 

It appears as if though thats the case. Plugged em in, totally fixed the problem. But you think by now someone would have came across it. Like I said , I didnt see anything about it in all the searching I did beforehand, which is why I just left em unplugged.

Took primaries out of primary injector body, rubbed walls with fine steel wool to clean up any debris/imperfections. Doesnt leak as bad, but still leaking. Going to have to take it back apart again. I have the factory service manual here and am doing exactly as told, and I am using factory o-rings, this is kicking my butt. I have been pressurizing the system before putting it all back together, but it seems the leak happens over a period of time. Its nothing a gob of RTV and JB weld cant fix.....

 

JB weld, LOL! Maybe you should lubricate the o-rings with grease or oil before putting them in? It might help them seal better. I always do this when installing seals and o-rings. Did you replace the o-rings AND the insulators? There are two rubber o-ring-looking seals that seal (insulate?) the primary fuel distributor to the block.

 

Good to see that the car runs!

Part of your boost problem could be the stock catalytic converter...I run a straight line to the wastegate actuator and get .8 kilos/cm2...about 11 psi.

May want to just purchase a PFC...then you don't have to worry about the stupid solenoids!

 

You didn't mention if you lube the injector o-rings or not, but you really should. Without an oil coating, they will leak.

I run two home depot valves on my wastegate. One for boost level, and one for spool up speed. I have it set up where boost builds pretty quick with the similar mods to yours. Only in 4th and 5th does boost seam slow.

 

Yeh, the manual even recommends to do that, but I woulda done it anyway. I replaced the insulators, also. Thanks.

 

from what i heard unplugging the solenoids with the stock ecu will give limp mode responses. You must put resistors on them and wrap them with tape or put back the solenoids for resistance.

Nathan

 

I got to looking at the primary body real close t day while pressurizing it. It looks like I put the o-rings in correctly after all. The leak isnt coming from where the injector meets the body, but actually from up under the "cap" that holds the injectors into the body, which leads me to believe its the actual injectors themselves that are leaking. Probably wont hurt to just have em replaced, they have 130k on em.

Thanks all for the help.

 

Check RC Engineering (I think thats the place). They might be able to fix and clean them for you. Thats where most people send their injectors to get cleaned.