Joys of non-sequential
01-09-03, 07:22 AM
#26
NorCal 7's Co-founder
GoRacer,
I have streetport, intake, DP, and CB and I get full boost running stock sequential at ~2500 - 2700 and then secondary full boost by NO LATER THAN 4600. If you aren't getting full primary boost until 4500 then there is surely something wrong with your FD.
Batman,
I remember Kwik talking about his slow spool up running non-seq, but I have talked to Stephen and Bryan and pending an in person demo with the secret weapons I don't think it will be something to worry about. But thanks for the reminder. Laterz.
Zach
I have streetport, intake, DP, and CB and I get full boost running stock sequential at ~2500 - 2700 and then secondary full boost by NO LATER THAN 4600. If you aren't getting full primary boost until 4500 then there is surely something wrong with your FD.
Batman,
I remember Kwik talking about his slow spool up running non-seq, but I have talked to Stephen and Bryan and pending an in person demo with the secret weapons I don't think it will be something to worry about. But thanks for the reminder. Laterz.
Zach
01-09-03, 10:07 AM
#27
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I don't think that's normal. For me (mild street port, downpipe, intake) boost starts well below that...I'm pretty sure I'm at full boost before 3500. It definitely spools faster than when it was fully stock, but even then I don't think it was that slow.
jds
jds
Originally posted by GoRacer
Boost "starts" @3500rpm and "not" full boost, it begins there and full boost on 1st turbo is @4500 when the transition begins, then full boost for the 2nd and/or both is @5500rpms.
This should be normal, not a problem with my control system. Is this not normal for every one elses RX-7?
How are you getting "and you other guys" claiming the same thing running parallel = instant full boost? If boost kicks in @3500 then you can not instantly have full boost @3500. You would have to be starting boost @2500rpms.
M2 claims parallel boost would only "begin" @4500rpms, the same as the 2nd turbo jumping in with transition in sequential mode.
Boost "starts" @3500rpm and "not" full boost, it begins there and full boost on 1st turbo is @4500 when the transition begins, then full boost for the 2nd and/or both is @5500rpms.
This should be normal, not a problem with my control system. Is this not normal for every one elses RX-7?
How are you getting "and you other guys" claiming the same thing running parallel = instant full boost? If boost kicks in @3500 then you can not instantly have full boost @3500. You would have to be starting boost @2500rpms.
M2 claims parallel boost would only "begin" @4500rpms, the same as the 2nd turbo jumping in with transition in sequential mode.
01-09-03, 02:18 PM
#28
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With the old BNR carbon seal twins I had 10 psi by 4200 rpms. bryan is now using dynamic seals in his "secret weapons" and also a new compressor wheels meant for spooling - SPOautos had full boost non-seq by 3K rpms - that's freakin flyin in non-seq mode.
The M2 twins have 16 psi by 2800 rpms in sequential mode from what artguy said so they do spool faster than stock.
The M2 twins have 16 psi by 2800 rpms in sequential mode from what artguy said so they do spool faster than stock.
01-09-03, 04:13 PM
#29
Nonsequntial is so smooth,
I highly reccomend it. Rikkis car is so nice to drive.
I love his set up so much that I totally copied it.
I od have a few more goodies Ryan so you better get that turbo if you want to stay ahead of me.
Thanks again fro sending that IC my way,
you're my guy
See you sorry focks Friday.
I highly reccomend it. Rikkis car is so nice to drive.
I love his set up so much that I totally copied it.
I od have a few more goodies Ryan so you better get that turbo if you want to stay ahead of me.
Thanks again fro sending that IC my way,
you're my guy
See you sorry focks Friday.
01-09-03, 09:07 PM
#31
Junior Member
rceron,
Nice write up on the non-sequential.
I'm another convertee and must say that the car's more fun to drive now.
You forgot to mention another benefit of a non-sequential setup is the elimination of the cracking of the exhaust manifold to the 2nd turbo, due to reduced heat cycling.
Catch ya later.
Nice write up on the non-sequential.
I'm another convertee and must say that the car's more fun to drive now.
You forgot to mention another benefit of a non-sequential setup is the elimination of the cracking of the exhaust manifold to the 2nd turbo, due to reduced heat cycling.
Catch ya later.
01-09-03, 11:04 PM
#32
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Out of curiosity has anyone discovered that they had to take out some fuel below 3000 - 3200 rpms when going non-sequential. I seem to be running rich now as indicated by my darkened rear bumper.
thanks.
thanks.
01-10-03, 10:35 AM
#33
Nice job giving feedback on non-seq. I have to do my vac. hose job very soon, and I figure it would be a great time to learn the car, and eliminate a lot of the complicated parts as well.
08-19-03, 04:32 PM
#38
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Basically, if you were going only 60-65 mph on the highway with seq turbo you could still very easily pass other cars in fifth gear because you would have immediate boost at ~2500 rpm. With non-seq and at those speeds you probably would downshift. But if you are going faster (closer to say 80 mph) then the downshift would be unnecessary in non-seq mode.
R
R
08-19-03, 05:29 PM
#39
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I really like the BNRs in non sequential.
Best thing is no spiky transition. Especially while driving around a corner at a respectable throttle level when the 2ndary kicks in and I lost traction sliding sideways. Even with ~60-75 more hp than I had before, it just doesn't happen unless I'm flooring it.
I do like the smoothness and quick spool up. I don't have a psi gauge, but I'm hitting .80 kpa on my boost controller (~12 psi) by 3500-3700 rpms. Can't tell at all when I'm running 16 psi, just cause the acceleration is way to freakin fast.
I also hold that boost all the way to redline. Unlike my stock turbos running sequential, which would have 10-11 psi at around 4500-5000, then by the time 8000 comes on, I'm only runnin 7 or 8 pounds.
Best thing is no spiky transition. Especially while driving around a corner at a respectable throttle level when the 2ndary kicks in and I lost traction sliding sideways. Even with ~60-75 more hp than I had before, it just doesn't happen unless I'm flooring it.
I do like the smoothness and quick spool up. I don't have a psi gauge, but I'm hitting .80 kpa on my boost controller (~12 psi) by 3500-3700 rpms. Can't tell at all when I'm running 16 psi, just cause the acceleration is way to freakin fast.
I also hold that boost all the way to redline. Unlike my stock turbos running sequential, which would have 10-11 psi at around 4500-5000, then by the time 8000 comes on, I'm only runnin 7 or 8 pounds.
08-19-03, 05:34 PM
#40
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I just got the BNR stage 2s non sequential and i love it. I like that i dont have much boost under 4k. In traffic I dont want to be boosting anyway. I get full 12psi at 3900-4000 rpms. I think its the perfect street setup. And the car runs cooler on hot days.
08-19-03, 07:44 PM
#41
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Reading my old replys is funny. I just realized everyone is measuring their boost patterns in 3rd gear, why? 3rd is too fast for the street. By the time I hit 3rd it's time to hit the brakes. If you are on the freeway and downshift in to 3rd, then aren't you around 4500rpm with both turbos? Anyhow, my replies have been based on 1st and 2nd gear on the street. I allways thought of lag as from a stop to the "begining" of boost.
08-20-03, 01:24 AM
#43
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Hey Batman.
KwikRX7 had the first version of the stage 2's which I only sold 3 sets. They had the HTB compressor wheel. His second set had the HTM compressor wheel and it spools a hell of a lot quicker than the HTB. Just to let you know.
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
KwikRX7 had the first version of the stage 2's which I only sold 3 sets. They had the HTB compressor wheel. His second set had the HTM compressor wheel and it spools a hell of a lot quicker than the HTB. Just to let you know.
Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com
08-20-03, 09:49 AM
#45
built my own engine
now if you'd only have removed all of the actuators and do it the real way, you'd have even quicker boost
and stop boosting a large street port on stock timing maps...that's bad news man
and stop boosting a large street port on stock timing maps...that's bad news man
12-25-03, 02:14 AM
#49
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>>I love the quote by mahjik "if it aint broke...dont break it." my thoughts exactly<<
Hehehe...good one.....also agree.
The seq-system is an awesome setup when working properly. Meshing the gas @ 2k rpm and having full boost(~12psi) within 200-300 rpm is nice.
Many like that feeling of early boost but keep in mind it's only one turbo working and once you start running higher boost it becomes problematic.......alot more heat and the fast that everything happens faster...such as actuators opening and closing during transition.
Been running non-seq and will never go back.
-I get full boost(17psi) 3.5-3.8krpm in 3rd.
-HP curve is linear...feels like a single
-less gizmos operating on the manifold/intake
-at lower rpms heat is shared with both turbos rather then w/ primary one
-exhaust is always flowing thru both tubines so when I hit the gas they will spool up a bit faster. With seq-system rear turbo will only see exhaust from a certain rpm and primary turbo has to generate at leats 8psi before the transition starts to happen. Back when it was seq if I meshed the throttle @ 4-4.5krpm on that transition window it would have more lag then the non-seq setup.
-non-seq is a bit louder
-if racing the motor I never spend anytime below 4krpm so non-seq is ideal.
-at higher boost (14+) the lack of hoses/solenoids is a plus with non-seq.
So if running ~14psi or less and the seq system is working good...leave it alone
For those others running more serious boost and racing the car non-seq is the way to go.......my opinion.
>SPOautos had full boost non-seq by 3K rpms <
What's full boost??? if higher then 15psi I doubt it very much...because his dyno did not reflect that.
Full boost by 3krpm means it spooling in the 2krpm range where there's simply not enough exhaust heat/pulses to spool twins (upgraded or not) in non-seq mode even if it was ball-bearing.
Hehehe...good one.....also agree.
The seq-system is an awesome setup when working properly. Meshing the gas @ 2k rpm and having full boost(~12psi) within 200-300 rpm is nice.
Many like that feeling of early boost but keep in mind it's only one turbo working and once you start running higher boost it becomes problematic.......alot more heat and the fast that everything happens faster...such as actuators opening and closing during transition.
Been running non-seq and will never go back.
-I get full boost(17psi) 3.5-3.8krpm in 3rd.
-HP curve is linear...feels like a single
-less gizmos operating on the manifold/intake
-at lower rpms heat is shared with both turbos rather then w/ primary one
-exhaust is always flowing thru both tubines so when I hit the gas they will spool up a bit faster. With seq-system rear turbo will only see exhaust from a certain rpm and primary turbo has to generate at leats 8psi before the transition starts to happen. Back when it was seq if I meshed the throttle @ 4-4.5krpm on that transition window it would have more lag then the non-seq setup.
-non-seq is a bit louder
-if racing the motor I never spend anytime below 4krpm so non-seq is ideal.
-at higher boost (14+) the lack of hoses/solenoids is a plus with non-seq.
So if running ~14psi or less and the seq system is working good...leave it alone
For those others running more serious boost and racing the car non-seq is the way to go.......my opinion.
>SPOautos had full boost non-seq by 3K rpms <
What's full boost??? if higher then 15psi I doubt it very much...because his dyno did not reflect that.
Full boost by 3krpm means it spooling in the 2krpm range where there's simply not enough exhaust heat/pulses to spool twins (upgraded or not) in non-seq mode even if it was ball-bearing.
12-25-03, 02:14 AM
#50
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>>I love the quote by mahjik "if it aint broke...dont break it." my thoughts exactly<<
Hehehe...good one.....also agree.
The seq-system is an awesome setup when working properly. Meshing the gas @ 2k rpm and having full boost(~12psi) within 200-300 rpm is nice.
Many like that feeling of early boost but keep in mind it's only one turbo working and once you start running higher boost it becomes problematic.......alot more heat and the fast that everything happens faster...such as actuators opening and closing during transition.
Been running non-seq and will never go back.
-I get full boost(17psi) 3.5-3.8krpm in 3rd.
-HP curve is linear...feels like a single
-less gizmos operating on the manifold/intake
-at lower rpms heat is shared with both turbos rather then w/ primary one
-exhaust is always flowing thru both tubines so when I hit the gas they will spool up a bit faster. With seq-system rear turbo will only see exhaust from a certain rpm and primary turbo has to generate at leats 8psi before the transition starts to happen. Back when it was seq if I meshed the throttle @ 4-4.5krpm on that transition window it would have more lag then the non-seq setup.
-non-seq is a bit louder
-if racing the motor I never spend anytime below 4krpm so non-seq is ideal.
-at higher boost (14+) the lack of hoses/solenoids is a plus with non-seq.
So if running ~14psi or less and the seq system is working good...leave it alone
For those others running more serious boost and racing the car non-seq is the way to go.......my opinion.
>SPOautos had full boost non-seq by 3K rpms <
What's full boost??? if higher then 15psi I doubt it very much...because his dyno did not reflect that.
Full boost by 3krpm means it spooling in the 2krpm range where there's simply not enough exhaust heat/pulses to spool twins (upgraded or not) in non-seq mode even if it was ball-bearing.
Hehehe...good one.....also agree.
The seq-system is an awesome setup when working properly. Meshing the gas @ 2k rpm and having full boost(~12psi) within 200-300 rpm is nice.
Many like that feeling of early boost but keep in mind it's only one turbo working and once you start running higher boost it becomes problematic.......alot more heat and the fast that everything happens faster...such as actuators opening and closing during transition.
Been running non-seq and will never go back.
-I get full boost(17psi) 3.5-3.8krpm in 3rd.
-HP curve is linear...feels like a single
-less gizmos operating on the manifold/intake
-at lower rpms heat is shared with both turbos rather then w/ primary one
-exhaust is always flowing thru both tubines so when I hit the gas they will spool up a bit faster. With seq-system rear turbo will only see exhaust from a certain rpm and primary turbo has to generate at leats 8psi before the transition starts to happen. Back when it was seq if I meshed the throttle @ 4-4.5krpm on that transition window it would have more lag then the non-seq setup.
-non-seq is a bit louder
-if racing the motor I never spend anytime below 4krpm so non-seq is ideal.
-at higher boost (14+) the lack of hoses/solenoids is a plus with non-seq.
So if running ~14psi or less and the seq system is working good...leave it alone
For those others running more serious boost and racing the car non-seq is the way to go.......my opinion.
>SPOautos had full boost non-seq by 3K rpms <
What's full boost??? if higher then 15psi I doubt it very much...because his dyno did not reflect that.
Full boost by 3krpm means it spooling in the 2krpm range where there's simply not enough exhaust heat/pulses to spool twins (upgraded or not) in non-seq mode even if it was ball-bearing.