Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

broken93, I'm interested in seeing what these twins will do.. Let me know when you might put it on the dyno, I'll come up there to check it out.

SPOautos

I'll send you a PM

Sonny

Those numbers are way off for a 60 trim T3. It flows 34 lbs/min:



The 60 Trim T3 compressor in single form is capable of some pretty impressive power when matched to the proper turbine and turbine housing. The T3 50 trim compressor (more common in older Volvos and Saabs) can flow 30 lb/min.

The T28 is a T25/T3 hybrid turbo. It's a T25 turbine mated to a T3 compressor.

A good T28 to use for this would be the ones from the factory JDM S14 Silvia. They've made 325 whp on a 4 cylinder Nissan with ONE turbo. The smaller T25 turbine gives you fast spool coupled to the nice flowing T3 compressor. It's really an awesome turbo for how physically small it is. The T3/T04E (50 Trim T04E) that I replaced it with was capable of a lot more power, but it was like comparing a bowling ball to softball.

The main pain in the *** in using T25's is that parts for them are not as readily available as with the T3 turbos. You can get basically any size T3 turbine wheel, turbine housing, fittings, etc.

Cool project, man.

Sonny

PS-Just wanted to add that the S14 turbo is a factory water-cooled ball-bearing turbo. That's about as good as it gets for the street!

broken93

Yeah, the T3-60 compressor will do 34 lbs if you push it enough. That number is MAX flow, not optimal flow. Look at your compressor map; 34 lbs at 2:1 is out in 40-50% efficiency la-la-land. I know someone who did 300 WHP on a single Super-60, but I don't want to have to push my compressors that hard.

Thanks for the comments. I'm going back to my garage

Rhode_Dog

At least ceramic coat the manifolds.

turbojeff

iTrader: (30)

The problem isn't the strength of stainless steel it is the heat that weakens the stainless steel. AKA World Trade center collapse.

I think coating the manifold (both sides) wouldn't do anything other than keep the manifold hotter which is going in the wrong direction.

felix_is_alive

hehehe......good **** ,good ****

SVT Squasher

Nice project.

broken93

Jeff, I do agree with you that the steel may weaken. However, I have to make the tradeoff of *maybe* being able to radiate that heat elsewhere and save the manifold, or ceramic coating the whole assembly and not baking my LIM (and the charge) post-intercooler. If I'm lucky the LIM temp might stay around 150-200 degrees F vs probably 250+ without the ceramic (I'm pulling these numbers out of thin air, anyone have any ideas?)

I started last night trying to port out the flanges using a high-speed drill grinding attachment. It took me about two hours to get nowhere. I have a die grinder but I need to get a compressor to use it. Anyone have a good flow compressor they want to lend in my area?

I also started work on the downpipe fitment. There are some pics of what I've got to attack - the bends here are 2" test bends, not 2.25" as used in the manifold. The ones I fab with will be 2.25". In other news, I mean 2.25", not 2.5", in all previous posts.

teamafx

iTrader: (4)

why 2.25 on the manifold?

broken93

To be honest, because it was the ID of the flange that mazdatrix had. I would have been happy with 2". I've got a lot of work to do... I'll post more pics soon. I hope to have this thing off the ground and running in the next 2-3 weeks. If anyone knows a source for 5-bolt T25/28 outlet flanges or gaskets, please let me know.

tomaszjc7

I hope ur just kidding? but if you weren't.... It's not necessarily two sepreate engines... Both housings will still be at the same rpm at all times and are still being controlled by the same eccentric shaft so its technically one engine. The idea of having two seperate engine management systems is kinda going to far. I think the setup that he's got is just perfect. Good luck with the project, i hope it all works out for you. -Tom

widebody2

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=FLS
I found one that actually had a T25 flange welded to a pipe that transitioned to 2.5 inches but can't find it any more. They were like 90 bucks each. This was the closest I could do. the below link might be something you would be interested in....They are sort of like the things I found a while back.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33742

Kevin T. Wyum

I was actually thinking of your project while I was engaged in the nightmare that is simply putting my turbos back on and thought of something you shouldn't forget on the exhaust side. Because you have two tubes of pretty different lengths in the combination of the front rotor, turbo etc. compared to the rear rotor, turbo etc. they will expand during heating and cooling to different sizes. Since these tubes join back together in the collector where the tubes are welded together you have the problem of there not being anywhere for the heat expansion differences to be absorbed and like most single turbo manifolds with vastly different header lengths you will end up with cracks in the joints etc. The solution? Install a bellows in one of the headers after the turbo that will allow for flex etc. I'm just about done putting my turbos back on, just need to bolt in the wastegates and some hoses. I'll likely find out if the motor is functional late tonight.

Kevin T. Wyum

broken93

widebody, those pieces are nice. It's worth $70 just for the flanges, I think. I may buy some from him, we'll see. If they seal properly, I might even be able to drop some 1" tubing down and have a separate wastegate outlets into a small 2->1 collector (/w attached itty bitty muffler). Your character gets +1 cool factor.

Kevin, I'm looking forward to an update on your project. I had planned on putting a flex joint after the post-turbo merge collector; what else were you referring to?

broken93

Well, since no one has the flanges, Garrett can't find the gasket, and I am having no other luck, I am going to cut them from the drawing I have.

If you print the attached drawing at 65 ppi on a properly calibrated laser printer, you should get the drawing to scale. I'll take it home tonight and see if it (the paper) indeed fits.

Sonny

I got my T25 discharge and inlet flanges from here:

http://www.turboengineering.com/misc...s/flanges.html

They fit perfect. This was for the T28 that I had mentioned previously.

Sonny

KevinK2

Looks like 2 places carry ffanges, sonny's link and here:

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=FLS

Could email your template to each place for verification.

The one linked above has a recess to weld on a short bulged split discharge pipe. Re-face the sealing side after welding.

KTW was talking about a flex section in one of the 2 turbine discharge pipes, before they are collected together. Your pic shows one turbo an a very stiff, short pipe to block. If you had 2 long pipes, the thermal inelastic strain would be better shared by the two runs, but a flex section in one run would still be a good thing.

fd3s_rx7

iTrader: (13)

that's some crazy setup you got there...

broken93

I'll take a look at Sonny's place. I called ATP yesterday and talked to them, but the only flange they have is the one that you post, which has an oval outlet - there's no way I have room for that.

Kevin, I had thought about flex joint before the collector, but I just don't know where I'm going to put it.

Other technical notes, since I've had to do this on numerous occasions: Cheap chinese needle-nose angle pliers and a dremel tool can yield some nice snap ring pliers for turbo compressor housing snap rings. Wear eye protection (I'm glad I did).

KevinK2

flex/bellows segment is not critical, just helps reduce cracking potential after a lot of thermal cycles.

I would not handcuff yourself to the current turbo positioning, that appears to lock you into the front exh discharge going right at the rear turbo exh inlet pipe. Might want to gaze at some other config'ns for ideas: the trip-turbo RB Bonnevile car, or mabe a pic from KTW.

Kevin T. Wyum

Do you think anyone would be upset if the instruction manual for a turbo kit said, Step 1: Remove the engine. ? Sheesh, it would have been 10x easier to just remove the motor put them on and reinstall the motor than to do it in the car. I'll pull the motor anytime I need to work on these things in the future, tight fit doesn't begin to describe it.

I had a few fuel leaks I had to deal with and need a new battery, the little utility battery I have doesn't have enough power to crank very fast so no starting yet. I should know if the motor is okay by later tonight.

K2 covered the point to the bellows. It shouldn't be hard to fit it in. If you have any section of straight exhaust you can slip these in place. It welds to the one side and the other side is a slip fit.

I'll post on if it starts later and take some more pictures, maybe they can help with yours.

Kevin T. Wyum

broken93

I went ahead and ordered the flanges from Sonny's site, turboengineering. Although the guy that answered the phone wasn't the friendliest, he had the flanges in 304 with the machined wastegate pockets for $48 a pop, so I got them.

I'll figure out a way to put a flex in, probably on the front turbo. I agree, I had the motor out for a while and did a lot of test fitment and such with it on the stand, but I had to put it back in to verify that I was going to clear the fender and the firewall. My original motivation for pulling it was replacing the clutch and motor mounts, among other things.

aREX4X

Very interesting read. I'll keep tabs on this one. I am very interested in the process to get there.

X...

Sonny

Cool, man...I'm glad they had what you needed. Just curious, why did you get the flanges in stainless? Generally mild steel (1018 cold rolled) is used in the flange because it doesn't warp nearly as much when hot. Almost every manifold out there that I've seen that claims to be "stainless steel" is actually stainless tubing/elbows with mild flanges on both ends. Just be careful with allowing for thermal expansion.

Last year I did a batch of 30 Honda header flanges made for me using laser cut 3/8" cold-rolled and didn't have any problems. Stainless was incredibly expensive in comparison (it costs more, but it is hell of a lot harder to cut/machine), but in addition, Corky Bell (author of "Maximum Boost"...fabulous book!) told me that if I used stainless and didn't slot the holes, it would shear off the outer head studs as soon as things got hot. I took his word for it.

Sonny