OK, which is it? None of the gauges you've ever seen read below center, or your own gauge never reached the middle?

BTW, Jeff's had over 15 FDs himself. Not seen, HAD.

 

None of the gauges I've seen have been below the middle along with my own.
The comparison is done on the same gauge (mine) before and after my coolant conversion and cooling mod. And being the same gauge, the question of diferences between gauge calibration is irrelevant.

 

You just contradicted yourself and said you have never seen a gauge below the middle.

True, but it can be quite fun, especially when people keep contradicting themselves...

 

Ummm, then why did you even mention the stock guage at all? Just tell us what the temp of the engine is and leave it at that. You mentioned that your "stock" guage read lower than other people's stock guage. Implying that the Evans lowered your engines running temp.

It is irresponsible to put "data" out there when it really isn't data.

 

The 5-7 psi cap reduces chance of collapsing the lower rad hose due to vacuum, esp when the thick NPG+ is cold and stock rad is used. Collapse is not likely with zero psi cap + ast with .08" pill in hose to filler neck, no restriction in lower nipple/hose.

a 5 psi cap should have no effect on o-ring life. overheating does.

 

If you've never seen a stock gauge below the middle, then how do you justify the following statement?

Did you use an aftermarket gauge to verify this, or were you able to tell by looking at your own gauge stuck squarely in the middle of the range that you were running cooler?

Maybe this is like ZeroBanger's opinion about his strut tower brace. He thought it would improve the handling of his car, so it... did. Never mind the lack of observable data supporting his theory.

 

Trexthe3rd:

My OEM coolant temp gauge sits a hair below middle. You know what that means? Nothing. It sits in that EXACT SAME position from about 130F to at least 230F (I don't know when it actually starts moving and hope I never find out).

Unless you have an aftermarket temp gauge, you have ZERO basis for any temp comparisons.

 

My 93 'normal' is just below center (no NPG+). The stock gage stays at a normal position, 1/2 or just below, from 140F to 240, so the stock gage will tell you if the temperature is in that range, as the needle neither climbs or falls in that range. Given the t-stat opens at 180F, it is obvious where each cars normal is.

The change you observed, if temperature related, implies either of 2 cases:

1) with egw and engine warmed so t-stat opens, you had ALWAYS been running hotter than the 'normal' zone in a narrow band between 240 and 245 F ... I say narrow because the gage rises quickly in the upper half. with NPG+, you now routinely run in the normal zone, which is below 1/2 for you.

2) with egw, you were running in the gage's normal zone at 1/2, and are now ALWAYS running in a narrow temperature band around 135-140F.

case 2 is very unlikely, and case 1 a weak maybe, if you had another problem that was fixed with the change to npg+ (like bad t-stat that opened at 235F AFTER fans came on and stayed on).

a change in the 'normal' range could also be explained by a slight change in a gage ground.

----------

NPG+ does not transfer heat as well as egw, and most/all engines run hotter with it, when putting out significant hp. Read the web site ... evans never claims it runs cooler, but implies it runs hotter. Once you hit the power limit for a system with egw (dnb ... departure from nucleate boiling), the npg+ will allow operation at higher power, with higher temperatures, and no excessive boiling, and excellent hot spot control.

I believe you saw a change in the gage 'normal range' needle position. I don't think you are running cooler than you would right now with egw, up to some max hp limit for egw related to gross boiling.

 

It is so tiring to have to keep asking people to actually read the damn posts before opening their mouths.

Here is the exact quote from one of my posts, if you have a hard time understanding it, i'll try a lower reading skill level for you.

 

rynberg and jimlab, I do have an after market gauge thats used to verify my statement.

Prior to my cooling mods (I'll say this now before people go off on a tangent again. Cooling mod means modifications to the fan operation, the actual fan and coolant typ)
With ambient temperature of 98F
normal load, coolant temp ~ 195F
WOT (hard acceleration and sustained 80-120MPH), coolant temp ~ 230F

After cooling mods
With ambient temperature of 98F
normal load, coolant temp ~ 185F
WOT (hard acceleration and sustained 80-120MPH), coolant temp ~ 215F

The stock gauge comment was thrown in because the slight changes in the reading before and after, does in fact correlate to the improvements seen on the aftermarket gauge.

 

Please understand the difference between "able to run hotter" and "running hotter".
NPG+ allows the engine to run at a higher temperature safely because of it's high boiling point. True, it has lower thermal conductivity then EGW. That means given the exact same setup, same radiator, same cooling fan same water pump, same everything, EGW will cool the car better.
This is not the case here, I am saying the collective effects of my cooling mods (which includes NPG+) is what allows my engine to run cooler, NOT just using NPG+.
The thermal conductivity of the coolant combined with heat dissipation efficiency is what makes your engine run cooler. The heat dissaption efficiency of my current setup has far exceeded the lower thermal conductivity of NPG+, that is why I am running cooler than I was before.

 

I wonder if it's possible for a thread on Evans NPG not to turn into a slanging match?

 

good clarification.

note that based on your bef/aft 'normal load" temps posted recently, there should be no change in where the stock gage runs .... unless a bad gage ground.

not bashing npg+, as it has many advantages. the inferior heat transfer rate vs egw is due to higher viscosity, lower specific heat, and lower thermal conductivity.

 

Some more data point for NPG+ with Fluidyne radiator

Ambient Temp 90 F, humidity about 50%

With AC on 4, Fifth gear at 80 mph - steady 220 degrees measured at filler neck

With AC on 4, In traffic 20 mph - steady 235 degrees.

Without AC, Fifth gear at 80 mph - steady 210 degrees

Without AC, in traffic 20 mph - steady 200 degrees.


Overall, I'm seeing about 10-15 degrees higher than water and EG mixture.

I'm also getting a vented hood soon.

 

If you guys do install Evans in your cars, make shure you get ALL the water/old anitfreeze out, and drill a hole in the thermostat. Air pockets can be very bad to your motors health.

I've been running Evans for a long time now. With the stock radiator, no AST, no AC and a 0 psi cap, the car usually runs 83-86C. Even after a hard 1-3rd gear run, it *might* climb upto 90C. I'm very happy with it. CJ

 

Anyone running Evans blow a seal yet?

 

i'm running NPG+ now and have been for over 2 years with great results. the needle never moves. i've got an aluminum radiator, and running everything on the PFC. i get on it a lot, and have never had to worry about overheating.

where can i pick up a 0 psi cap?

 

^ The filler neck cap is 0psi (radiator/AST is pressurised).

 

Any responses to this? The argueing about the stock temp guage isn't that relavent, so lets get back to things that help.

 

I need to see Evans engine temp data from track drivers. I'm thinking of converting to Evans. I'd like to run a full 25-minute 9/10ths driving session without worrying about engine temps. The motor is noticeably weaker with higher water temps, and from what I've read form Damien's posts, the motor remains strong even with apparently higher temps with the Evans??