antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

I have never driven an FD, ever. But I've owned one and have been building it for the last seven years. I started with a beat-to-hell shell / roller and have gradually been restoring the car as I could afford it over all this time. I think the thing probably has only 40% original parts at this time. It's been a long haul to get to this point but I'm a guy who wanted one of these cars despite not having a lot of money, and made it happen by working for it and being patient.

Here's my problem:

I basically just finished the very last bits I thought I needed to get the car to run for the first time, but it will not start. It doesn't sputter, it just turns over.

Here are what I think are the pertinent details:

-The car is a '93.
-The engine is a new rebuild, zero miles, with the Rotary Aviation kit and has proper compression.
-I have fuel. The pump runs and I can hear the fuel running through the rails. But...
-The pump doesn't seem to prime with the key on. It only runs when the starter is engaged or if I jump it at the diagnostic port. I wasn't too concerned about this because I found a thread on here where a few guys were saying that their '93s don't prime and have always been that way.
-I have spark (shocked my buddy who was helping me)
-I have voltage at the injectors. I understand they are ground-switching.
-The 4 injectors are rebuilt/flowed
-Plugs are new.
-I am running the stock ECU and everything relevant to this problem in the engine compartment is stock.
-Crank angle sensors are hooked up correctly.
-Gauge cluster doesn't do anything except light up. It does not show oil pressure after turning the motor over a bunch and the tach doesn't bounce. The cluster is original and could be bad.

Can anyone give me some direction? I hoping that the ECU is bad; that would be a simple fix.

thanks,
James

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

The cluster grounds through the engine harness. There's a ground that usually attaches to either the rear nut/stud of the upper intake manifold to lower intake manifold or somewhere in that area, I've also seen it going to the rear engine hanger. If that ground is not hooked up you'll have nothing on the instrument cluster.

I'm sure it's probably been cranked enough, but I like to pull the EGI fuse and crank until I have oil pressure. Starting an engine and turbos dry is never a good idea.

Just keep double-checking things. You can also try and start the engine and give it some starting fluid, that sometimes can help to get it to initially light off.

You can also pull the plugs and see if they're wet with fuel, that will tell you if you're getting fuel in there.

Have you checked for any engine codes?

Congrats on coming to the end of the project! There's nothing more frustrating and exciting than getting an engine to light off for the first time.

Dale

antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

Thanks for the reply.

That ground you're talking about it is in fact going to my rear engine hanger, and then I have an additional braided ground strap going from there to the fire wall.

The plugs don't have anything on them except assembly lube. And when I pulled the UIM yesterday to get to the injector clips to test for voltage, there was no fuel smell in the runners so I'm pretty sure that the injectors aren't clicking.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Touch 12v to the injectors and see if you can hear them click on and off. If you had them cleaned and flow balanced a while ago, that could be a problem. Sometimes the cleaner that is used will cause them to stick if they aren't used fairly quickly after getting them back.

antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

Yes, they did sit around for quite a while. I will try that, thanks.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

I've seen that myself - had a set of injectors that weren't doing anything, hook up 12v and ground and get nothing from them. I hit the injector tips with a little PB Blaster and let it sit for a bit, then tapped it with 12v a number of times. Suddenly, the injector broke free and started clicking back and forth. Worked it a few more times, put some WD-40 on the injector tip, then made the car go .

Might be worth seeing if you can get them to move on the car. If they won't, pull the fuel rails and do it off the car so you can get to the injector tips. Just undo the 2 fuel lines that are at the back towards the firewall and remove both rails as an assembly.

Dale

antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

OK, I made a test jumper from an extra injector connector I had and I applied 12v directly to the injector and I didn't hear anything. So it seems like they are stuck.

I would think that this would be a known problem with the injector cleaner places and they would run something through the injectors to clean their cleaner gunk out of there before mailing them off to people. I mean, what a freakin' PITA to have to tear your new motor apart to clean/unstick your supposedly new injectors.

It's especially frustrating when you are like me and have all the stock rat's nest and ACV crap under the UIM to contend with when pulling the rails.

Ugh.

Thanks for the help guys.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

You can try to just keep popping them on and off with 12v to see if they unstick. Sometimes that works after a bit. It would be worth a try to do that with one for about 5 minutes or so before you pull the rails.

milano maroon

iTrader: (1)

Just out of curiosity, pull your trailing plugs and see if they are dry.

antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

Can you explain your rationale for that?

antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

Do you think it would be safe to hit them with more power than they are meant to see in order to break them free or do you think that could possibly damage them?

Also, why should I pull the rails as opposed to pulling the injectors out of the rails?

milano maroon

iTrader: (1)

It would eliminate the possibility that your engine won't start because it's flooded.

It seems weird that 4 injectors which have been rebuilt and flow tested won't open, unless of course there is a problem with the wiring to all four.

antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

Like I said, there is no gas smell at all. If any of the injectors were working I'm sure I would smell gas upon removal of the UIM, and I didn't.

The injectors probably sat around for at least a year and a half before being used.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

I don't think that would help, probably just damage them.

For me, it's easier to take the injectors out with the rails removed. Plus, you may be able to work the injectors while they are still installed into the rails as well as do a test before you install them again:

https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...&postcount=255

Howard Coleman

iTrader: (6)

my congratulations to you for taking a patient longer term approach to your FD. properly setup there is little that will touch it.

sounds like injectors if the plugs are dry.

we will be waiting to hear you make some noise w your 7 year project.

regards,

howard

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

I'm sorry you've come so far to be stopped by stupid injectors, but even if you free them up I'd be concerned they aren't flowing to their rated potential.

If you don't have a wideband O2 sensor installed, I'd play it safe and get them cleaned and tested again. Good insurance.

Dave

antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

Yeah it is highly lame. I bought all four of these through the classifieds here and they came in a nice little box with a spec sheet on their flow showing before and after getting cleaned. And they had new o-rings. It's pretty stupid that these things can just "not work" if you let them sit too long. How was I to expect that?

t-von

iTrader: (8)

They don't tell you these things. That is a disclosure injector cleaning companies should put out. I get my injectors cleaned and flowed at Witchhunter before my rebuilds. The last time my 20b injectors sat up for about 3weeks before I tried cranking the engine. Me being aware of the potential sticking problems, I applied 12v to each one to make sure they were clicking. How long ago did you get yours cleaned b4 trying to start yours? Also congratulations on the dedicated build.

antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

Thanks.
Witchhunter is where these came from. They sat around for at least a year and a half.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Ohhhhhh Sh*******ttttttt!!!!!!!. Well most definitely follow dgeesaman's advice and send them back for re cleaning. You may be able to get them unstuck but, proper flow and volume is way more important than guessing. Definitely send them back!

antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

Welp so far I've been able to free both of the secondaries using the ol' PB Blaster. The primaries though, are being a bitch. Neither one will click in spite of several applications of the PB-B. I'm going to let them sit overnight in it and see what happens. I do have some spare primaries that I could use (and they click!) but they are sort of an unknown quantity which is why I bought the "new" ones in the first place...

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Tap them gently with the plastic end of a screwdriver. Don't overdo it but this can help.

antiSUV

iTrader: (10)

OK, all 4 injectors are working now. I hope to try to start the car again this weekend.

Thanks for everyone's help.

millennm

iTrader: (6)

Like they said above, get them recleaned. If they run lean you're engine is toast.
How long does it take the OMP to send oil up the metering oil lines? To avoid running the seals dry I'd inject some two cycle oil through one spark plug hole on each rotor.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Actually, pull the EGI fuse and crank until you see oil pressure. It's more important to feed the turbo lines than the metering pump.

Dave