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Ignition breakup and alternate IGN-1A mounting locations
I'm having issues with ignition breakup & water injection. When the water is on, I can only get to about 6.5K in 3rd, for example, until it just kinda hangs there. If I turn the water off, it's fine.
I'm running stock coils (original, 26-year-old) with about 35K miles on them, and a Twin Power.
I've read that this can happen with water, especially with a richer mixture, and that higher boost also exacerbates the problem. My boost isn't very high yet, but it will be soon.
So, I'm looking into IGN-1As. I see IRP and SBG both make PnP kits that mount where cruise control is in the engine bay. That's fine, except I just finished this little fuel pump/intercooler fan speed switch that I'm rather fond of.
Are there any other common mounting locations for these coils? I've seen them under the plenum but that's not an option for me as it's a CA car and needs to retain most smog things to avoid making my life any harder at testing time.
I recently bought Sakebomb's chassis leg mounting kit for the AEM coils, although looking at my chassis leg I reckon an AC pipe might be in the way of the mount. I'll snap a pic of it mounted when it arrives.
Not sure how much space you guys have down there as you'll also have the steering column passing up that side being LHD.
Why not just relocate that added box elsewhere, and use the vacated space for the coils? From the looks of it, that box can go anywhere you have the space & physical access to its switches, and all you would have to do is extend its wiring.
I recently bought Sakebomb's chassis leg mounting kit for the AEM coils.
Some people have had great results with the HKS twin power on NEW oem coils, some over 500 whp.
I used Sakebomb's RHD frame mount kit on my LHD. It's a tight fit but it does fit and clears the steering column and everything just fine, just have to be mindful of the wiring routing to make sure it doesn't rub on anything. I used to have the cruise mount but I wanted to have my cruise control back.
You can also use DriftinJim custom kit he sells on ebay, also offers cruise or frame mount. I got this kit too but ended up using SB's instead, it's FS to anyone interested.
Some other vendors offer frame mounts. I went with Sakebomb because I've used their products before and their service is great.
Some people have had great results with the HKS twin power on NEW oem coils, some over 500 whp.
I used Sakebomb's RHD frame mount kit on my LHD. It's a tight fit but it does fit and clears the steering column and everything just fine, just have to be mindful of the wiring routing to make sure it doesn't rub on anything. I used to have the cruise mount but I wanted to have my cruise control back.
You can also use DriftinJim custom kit he sells on ebay, also offers cruise or frame mount. I got this kit too but ended up using SB's instead, it's FS to anyone interested.
Some other vendors offer frame mounts. I went with Sakebomb because I've used their products before and their service is great.
As the owner of an SBG kit that's now sitting on the shelf, +1 to the Driftinjim kit. I could sling around words like "Overpriced" "Missing critical instructions that will fry your coils if you re-located your battery" "Insufficient grounding paths to the battery" etc, but there are plenty of other posts on the forum that cover those topics in depth with pictures of melted coils. The bracket is the only part of the kit I still have on the car, very expensive bracket. If your future plans ever include an ECU that uses it's own engine harness you won't use any of the harness in their kit either. Just items to consider.
I can certainly appreciate that moment when you've made some bespoke one off part then find out it's not going to work the way you wanted it to. I like to tig weld aluminum parts for myself and have done this too many times. Don't trip over that pitfall. Those switches can easily be relocated, that is a good spot to put the coils.
I'm really torn between trying with some new OEM coils + my Twin Power, or just jumping on a Driftinjim frame rail mount kit with some IGN-1As. It's hard to see exactly how that mount fits in the photos / YT video:
The issue with the twinpower is that it still reuses the factory coils, wires, and ignition harness. All of these together would cost more than a good ign1a kit. Additionally the twinpower is discontinued. If it fails (and they occasionally do) It may be difficult to source a replacement. Switching ignition systems requires a retune to remain safe. My coil kit can be mounted in either the factory cruise control location or in place of the ac compressor if you delete the compressor. Correct grounding with these coils is critical and unfortunately many other offerings on the market are not properly grounded. They need both a battery ground and a separate ground for each rotor housing for optimal function. Unfortunately most of the other kits share grounds for cost/simplicity reasons or just for a lack of understanding. It is also a direct plug and play with no depinning of the factory ignitor connector required. https://www.irperformance.com/produc...nition-system/
Last edited by IRPerformance; 12-03-20 at 02:52 PM.
As the owner of an SBG kit that's now sitting on the shelf, +1 to the Driftinjim kit. I could sling around words like "Overpriced" "Missing critical instructions that will fry your coils if you re-located your battery" "Insufficient grounding paths to the battery" etc, but there are plenty of other posts on the forum that cover those topics in depth with pictures of melted coils. The bracket is the only part of the kit I still have on the car, very expensive bracket. If your future plans ever include an ECU that uses it's own engine harness you won't use any of the harness in their kit either. Just items to consider.
I can certainly appreciate that moment when you've made some bespoke one off part then find out it's not going to work the way you wanted it to. I like to tig weld aluminum parts for myself and have done this too many times. Don't trip over that pitfall. Those switches can easily be relocated, that is a good spot to put the coils.
I just realized maybe you have the Driftinjim version with the CC bracket, not the frame bracket...
Anybody with the Driftinjim frame bracket care to comment on fitment?
I can remove my switches... but I haven't given up yet!
I'm really torn between trying with some new OEM coils + my Twin Power, or just jumping on a Driftinjim frame rail mount kit with some IGN-1As. It's hard to see exactly how that mount fits in the photos / YT video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6GqH9wdSRM@F1blueRx7 is placement reasonable? Does it interfere with anything else such as replacing plugs?
How do you like to change your plugs? Some folks find it far easier to change them from under the car because they have the Greddy Elbow, Power Steering and A/C to fight with when getting to the plugs from the top. I just pull the Elbow, but going from underneath is technically easier once you get the car up in the air, if the coils are installed on the drivers rail that's difficult.
There are also coil on plug brackets out there as well. I have no experience with them in terms of fitment, but if you haven't seen them before take a look.
I have both the SBG and Driftinjim frame brackets, currently using SBG. Their designs are different but both go under the steering column on the frame above the engine subframe, exact position is slightly different. Spark plug wires end up very short and the coil wiring harness can be routed neatly to be tucked away. Here's one from SBG's page and one from Driftinjim's.
Somehow I missed that the RHD SBG was mounted down there. I was talking to Heath @ SBG earlier and he assured me it was 100% PnP (which again helps me out at smog time). So that all sounds good -- my only concern now is grounding. Looks like the @SakeBomb Garage kit has a signal ground but only one power ground...
According to Mercury Marine, each bank (in this case rotor housing) needs to have its own ground. While tying the ground together technically somewhat works, it is far from optimal. As these cars age I see more and more electrical gremlins pop up. On some cars you can get away with it. On others I've seen misfires so bad they hurt the motor.
I spoke to Chris at LMS about AEM location the other day as I don't want to pull Cruise control from my car. He said another place he mounts them is on the frame rail below the power steering column. I don't quite have a visual on it yet. @neit_jnf is this the location you are referring to in your post?
I think Chris is on this forum but not sure what his user name is.
I mounted mine in approximately the stock coil location. I don't think there are any out-of-the-box mounts for that location though, I just kinda jerry rigged my own bracket.
I spoke to Chris at LMS about AEM location the other day as I don't want to pull Cruise control from my car. He said another place he mounts them is on the frame rail below the power steering column. I don't quite have a visual on it yet. @neit_jnf is this the location you are referring to in your post?
I think Chris is on this forum but not sure what his user name is.
yes, on the frame rail below the power steering column
Do you still have the stock PFC settings for your coils or did you let FC Tweak fix them?
I let FC Tweak do its thing.
Man I love that program... if for nothing else its auto tune feature.
Originally Posted by IRPerformance
According to Mercury Marine, each bank (in this case rotor housing) needs to have its own ground. While tying the ground together technically somewhat works, it is far from optimal. As these cars age I see more and more electrical gremlins pop up. On some cars you can get away with it. On others I've seen misfires so bad they hurt the motor.
That's good info. I just spoke with Paul and he convinced me your harness is the best
Originally Posted by SpinningDorito
I mounted mine in approximately the stock coil location. I don't think there are any out-of-the-box mounts for that location though, I just kinda jerry rigged my own bracket.
That's awesome!! I wish somebody would make a kit for that (hint, hint @IRPerformance@SakeBomb Garage). I'm actually going to have my UIM off at the time I do the install, so maybe I'll take a crack at that too. Sounds ideal. Do you happen to have any pics of what you did?
That said, one of reasons to relocate is to get the coils away from engine heat. And then there's B2A's lead time and communication (or lack thereof) if you're interested in that option
Probably would not be too difficult to fab something up with aluminum sheet.
That's pretty cool, but again, it's a CA car so needs the whole rats nest and all the smog equipment in-place... thinking about it I kinda doubt you could fit IGN-1A's in the stock coil locations.
If the engine runs fine without WI and runs like crap with WI, most likely ignition is not your problem. You may be running too much water.
Have you actually measured your flow amount ?
True amount with an inline flow meter or max amount with the nozzles in a bottle.
If the engine runs fine without WI and runs like crap with WI, most likely ignition is not your problem. You may be running too much water.
Have you actually measured your flow amount ?
True amount with an inline flow meter or max amount with the nozzles in a bottle.
I'm using the middle-sized nozzle that comes with the AEM kit. I believe it's 500cc/min.
I just so happen to have a massive boost leak at the moment. Long story short, a while back I had a mechanic replace the paper LIM gasket for me (that really wasn't a job I felt like doing). In the process, he did me the "favor" of removing the AWS pipe that goes from the back of the UIM to the intake elbow, replacing it with a block-off plate. That plate has since rattled off, leaving a huge boost leak (he also left the AWS solenoid disconnected -- so I assume it is presently in a partially open position). Perhaps this boost leak is influencing how my motor is reacting to water injection?
I did notice that even on a modest 200-mile freeway journey, staying easy on the throttle because of other recent changes that were not tuned for yet, I went though about 1/2 gallon of water which surprised me.
My single turbo setup is a short runner FP HTA GT3582R 1.06 hotside.
When I was running 50/50 water meth at 18.5 psi boost, my flow rate was 425 cc/m into a bottle.
Since I am back at water injection only, my WI rate is now about 325 cc/m.
You are flooding out your spark!
Go to Aquamist site and search for posts about flow rates vs power.
My single turbo setup is a short runner FP HTA GT3582R 1.06 hotside.
When I was running 50/50 water meth at 18.5 psi boost, my flow rate was 425 cc/m into a bottle.
Since I am back at water injection only, my WI rate is now about 325 cc/m.
You are flooding out your spark!
Go to Aquamist site and search for posts about flow rates vs power.
According to Mercury Marine, each bank (in this case rotor housing) needs to have its own ground. While tying the ground together technically somewhat works, it is far from optimal. As these cars age I see more and more electrical gremlins pop up. On some cars you can get away with it. On others I've seen misfires so bad they hurt the motor.
I have seven dead coils, one actually melted down, sitting in a box that can attest to this. Exacerbated by a relocated battery. Luckily I didn't hurt the motor, or at least I didn't hurt the motor in a way that shows up on a compression test... Will know soon when I go to the dyno.
12-03-20, 02:11 AM
