twinsinside

iTrader: (34)

Replacing the engine harness is a serious PITA. It goes in under and over everything. That and you have to get down to the primary fuel rail to remove the bracket holding it to the block.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

dude it was always out of the question... you just never realized it.

yes malloy mazda is the most economical option for OEM equipment. No question.

Look man im gonna save you $1700 bucks («pfc and tune). You dont need an after market ecu unless you want to boost past stock levels.even then the pfc is not the only ecu out there.

fyi- the stock ecu can handle just about every bolton as long as you maintain 10 psi SOLID. that means no spikes no creep.


thats a question for neptune speed don't you think?

talk to your mechanic about cost not us.

justaimme

iTrader: (13)

Thanks Montego for the suggestion and saving me 1700$. I just want to know an approximate range for the labor cost of the removal and installation since I don't know an estimate cost, if Yoshiya say 400$ labor, I wouldn't know if it's appropriate or not. what does labor usually run ? I'm sure you guys would have a good estimate.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

dont know i had my harness changed during my rebuild. But ill tell you this 400 labor for a pain in the *** project is not bad.

fyi- welcome to the world of FD's as these cars will 500 dollar beat you to death.

justaimme

iTrader: (13)

thanks, i guess that does it. Install new engine harness and see what other codes pop up afterward, thank you everyone. I will update in another thread once new engine harness is in place.

TRWeiss1

iTrader: (20)

QFT right there! And the higher you go (in terms of power), the worse it gets...Building mine reliably and properly is not only taking forever, it also puts quite a strain on the ol wallet. Good parts are DAMN expensive...

djseven

iTrader: (56)

Remember the car is Non-Sequential, it shouldnt take more than 1 hour to change the harness if the car was fully converted to NS.

Also twinsinside, pm me back man.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

On the East Coast typical shop labor goes for around $85.00 an hour, I would expect slightly more for the West Coast.

Too bad you dont already have the harness, I was in Cali this week and could have installed it for you.

MrNizzles

iTrader: (5)

no offense, but I disagree with this advice.

The op has no air pump, an open intake with fmic and open exhaust. Also, he probably doesn't know if the wastegate on the twins are ported, which I would "assume" to be safe, that it isn't.

That's a combo of mods just asking for a blown motor... especially in the fall/winter when it gets cooler, even in southern cal.

at the very least, getting a high quality boost controller if not the pfc would be needed to keep the boost SOLID at 10psi... which doesn't happen magically.

I am not running a PFC atm, but I have complete stock intake, intercooler, and stock main cat, along with boost gauge, and the wastegate is ported on the bnr's.

I don't get any boost creep or spiking, except just slightly on really cold nights in Dec or Jan. In fact, I am now getting some secondary boost lag (10-6-8), probably related to the CCA or CCV being laggy.

I have posted my setup in other threads, and everyone always shouts about getting a PFC and a good boost controller to keep the boost in check. Not to mention all the reliability and monitoring that comes with a PFC.

If the motor really is in good condition, then less than $9k is a mean steal... I wouldn't want to phuk that up!

Note: if you are going to run with no air pump, I recommend one of the idler pulley kits from Tweak It Racing or Petit or Pineapple Racing:

Bad things happen with no air pump or idler pulley in it's place:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ir+pump+pulley

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...t=idler+pulley

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...t=idler+pulley

https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...t=idler+pulley

KKMpunkrock2011

iTrader: (5)

85/hr is what it is here in the midwest too.
just fyi

Montego

iTrader: (1)

None taken.

I ran CAI, no air pump, PFS SMIC, mild streetport, DP, MP (yes MP), ported turbos without an ECU for YEARS. WOT every chance I got but always kept my boost at 10 psi, no spike nor creep. I probably put about 25K miles on that motor before getting an ECU and upping the boost. Don’t believe me call and ask Steve S… I know you know him because I met you before at his shop a few years back before you had an FD and were still a kid

Now I’m not gonna hold his hand. But I did state to keep the boost at 10 psi solid, no spikes nor creep. That implies that: He NEEDS to know what his car is boosting. And if he is over boosting, spiking, and or creeping he needs to control that.

It’s when we drastically change the CFM and not the fuel that we get into trouble. Drastic changes include upping the boost or changing turbos (of a different make).

Just to reiterate I said MAINTAIN boost at 10 psi and explicitly stated no boost, nor creep. Now how he goes about it I leave it out for him to decide, that is unless he asks. Otherwise I’d be here a week explaining every detail…

BNR!=stock turbos that is why people are screaming to get an ECU and the fact that you are experiencing elevated boost commands you get a controller as well.

MrNizzles

iTrader: (5)

bnr's may not be equal to stock twins in terms of cfm, but no one really knows how much... Ive been running them for almost 3 years now and no issues. So thats basically the same thing as what you're saying about running all your mods with a stock ecu, albeit with stock twins. Personal experience always seems to trump, at least it makes for a convenient argument.

Mostly I think people scream because they would never get bnr's and then run stock boost levels - instead they run much higher eg. 15psi and up. however, I'm taking my time to learn as much as I can, and enjoy a stock car before getting into mods and higher boost. When I am ready, I'll already have the bnr's bolted up.

I have about 14k on my rebuild (over the last 3 years) and I will get a pfc someday though, but until I do, I wont change the intake, intercooler or stock cat, but thats just me.

I'm glad you had a great time with your previous setup, different strokes for different folks,... although, maybe you can help jog my memory... I don't remember meeting you face to face or who Steve S. is? What is his shop? The only rx7 shops I have been to are : MazdaTrix, Mariah MotorSports and Ricks Rotary. When I was at MazdaTrix (2005?), yes I was a kid in terms of FD years

djseven

iTrader: (56)

If you have a stock or very small port work the stock ecu can not be beat if you are happy with 10lbs or less. The drivability is unmatched by standalone ecus, I dont care who tunes it.

MrNizzles

iTrader: (5)

^ whats your opinion about running bnr's on a stock motor & ecu? I know it's not using the full potential of them... I can live with that if that's the extent.

when you say "driveability", you refer to the smoothness of the throttle? ease of driving? other factors?

Montego

iTrader: (1)

Yes exactly. That why people most likely said you need a PFC.

Not just from experience as convenient as it may sound to you. Wade did some lamba testing on the stock ECU where there was empirical data backing up the conclusion that the stock ECU runs rich enough to support boltons as long as the boost level remains stock.

Then that kinda makes it pointless to say that people have told you that you need a PFC then doesn't it?

That’s cool. But like I said I didn’t pull this out of my ***. This information has been around for quite some time.

I can’t find the actual website where he posted the lambda numbers but this will have to do:

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showpo...3&postcount=17

RnR rotary, when they were in Upland. And yes you were a kid, **** IMO you’re still a kid lol what are you 24? You looked about 17 at the time. I think you had an FC I’m not sure. I don’t forget faces and Steve introduced you to me as “Hey this is Mr Nizzels on the forum…”

Either that or somebody with a very similar name to yours...

MrNizzles

iTrader: (5)

thanks for the info, thats good to know.. I wasn't trying to make like your info is coming out of your a$$... I know you have good experience and I've read that post from Wade before and it was actually his post along with a couple others that used a AFR hooked up to a stock car that showed there was "so much head room" for mods and extra airflow... it was this reasoning that lead me to the setup I have.

Until someone shows a graph showing the difference in cfm (airflow volume) between stock twins and bnr's (and the huge difference?), I will go with my own personal experience that bnr's don't push significantly more air than twins, and highly doubtful that its more airflow than running a full open intake and exhaust ... thus requiring the pfc, whereas a full open intake and exhaust is OK without a pfc, simply because of running stock twins? I'm not buying it.

but I'm really sorry.. you have the wrong person, I have never been to Upland, never been to RnR Rotary, and never owned a FC. I have only owned 2 FD's. As for this Steve introducing someone to you by my forum handle, that's pretty funny. But maybe someone just thought my name was funny and wanted to use it (wouldn't be the first time). And I am over 35, I'll leave it at that.

KKMpunkrock2011

iTrader: (5)

if you thought he was a kid at 24, what's that make ME?! I'm only 21.

Anyway, back on topic.
Nizzles, do you have a wideband? If so watch it as you boost it and see what you're afr's are like, that could give us a clue as to how much air you're flowing based on idc and afr (a little bit of simple math will get you there). Dunno if there's a way to monitor idc with the stock ecu though. Plus I think it would be interesting to see what your afr's are anyways. If you don't, either buy one, or make a trip over to your local dyno and run 3 pulls and have them monitor and log the afr's.

Montego

iTrader: (1)

I agree 100%. I have a gt35r with all supporting mods but if I could go back in time I'd stick with my old setup with the stock ECU and at 10 lbs. Not a street monster by anymeans yet considerably faster than a 100% stock FD, relitvely quiet, and more reliable to boot!


We all know that the BNR's shine in higher boost applications and are very comparable to stock at lower psi levels but it would be very interesting to know the difference in CFM. Me personally I would have picked up wideband just to make sure but hey if it works then it works.

lol... yeah i don't forget faces but apparently I do names... lol. The kid that I'm talking about has a similar forum handle but i can't quite place it right now. Sorry about that lol.

You sir, are still breast feeding... lol

TRWeiss1

iTrader: (20)

QFT.

DaveW

Interesting to hear you say that. I have that opinion, but didn't have enough case-study info to say it on my own. I've driven a couple of supposedly well-tuned PFC equipped FD's, and, although they were not bad, I thought the low end driveability was lacking - not awful, but soft in throttle-response.

So, since I am still on the stock ECU, and love the way it runs, I was happy to see that someone with much more actual hands-on experience thinks the same.

MrNizzles

iTrader: (5)

I am planning on getting a nice wideband afr unit and some dyno runs to see how the bnr's work at 10psi. Honestly, my gut feeling is the afr's will still be in 'normal' or 'acceptable' range, but we'll see, maybe I'll be surprised and crap my pants!

I do have a narrow band afr light gauge that "feels" pretty accurate, it ranges from blue (rich) to red (lean) and the lights are super bright!

I know generally their not as good as wideband units. But, I can say that even in Dec on cold nights I would never see anything that shows 'lean' only briefly hitting stoich at 10psi between 5k and 6500 rpm. I have a chart I can post later for the little unit. -- http://www.3barracing.com/product_3.htm

First, I need to get my laggy boost back to a 10-8-10 instead of 10-6-8 and then I can go to the dyno.

And... there is never "any" age, too young or too old to be breast feeding, LOL!!

MrNizzles

iTrader: (5)

curious, what do you guys think about the Petit ecu? they say "up to 14psi" but most I've heard say "no more than 12psi" is really the safe way to go, but can allow to run lots of bolt on mods safely... hoping this would still keep the "smoothness" of the low end?

although, regardless of ecu, stock or petit or more advanced like the pfc, I still think that the fuel system needs to be addressed, at very least, making sure injectors cleaned, fresh fpd (if its the oem unit), fresh fuel filter, upgraded fuel pump or re-wired pump.

too bad there's no way to drop in some 1300 secondary injectors with the petit ecu. or is there?

Montego

iTrader: (1)

I don't know I'd be a little nervous, actually a lot nervous. Stoich and under load?

For the pettit unlimited it has to do with injector duty cycle. I don't know how rich the it is but at 14 psi I would wager that the injector duty cycle is past 85% and hence why people opt not to boost that high.



Well you could try and have pettit reprogram it for 1300's if they even do that, short that I'd say no

KKMpunkrock2011

iTrader: (5)

you don't want to be at stoich at 10 psi

MrNizzles

iTrader: (5)

hmm.. I thought "stoich" was between 'rich' and 'lean' ? maybe I'm just reading it wrong then. so the light gauge, at wot, I have only seen blue and green, but I thought green represented "stoich" ?? maybe not.

From wikipedia : "If exactly enough air is provided to completely burn all of the fuel, the ratio is known as the stoichiometric mixture (often abbreviated to stoich). "

So, I guess that means there is no "head room" in this range? But then there is interpretation as to what values constitute being "stoich" .. so to digress, I don't think I am or can validate in anyway that I was running a "stoich" mixture, sorry hope that clarifys