waltk88

ronarndt, you're saying that apart from the 2 length start deficit, your RX7 at least keeps up with your Z06 to 130mph? How much is the RX7 putting to the rear wheels? Which car do you find more fun to drive?

kwikrx7

A strong running non-sequential streetported FD with all bolt-ons could beat a Z06 and Jim knows it although it would still be a great race. Jim, didn't you run 119 mph traps in your non-seq. stock motored FD?? Take away the drag radials and you have 115 mph on street tires which is still a little quicker than a 02 Z06. I would be scared to race one but I know I could hold my ground against one and I'm sure surprise him. The Z06 is the new all around sports car of this era. A low 12 second stock car that has the handling and braking that the Viper never had and now there's a car that can even beat a FD on a roadcourse - all for under $50K - best sports car built to date. notice the thread - everyone says "How much hp to beat a Z06" Even if I could hang with one in a quick 60-130 rush - I would be extremely happy since it is the pinnacle of sports cars today.

Flybye

I saw an older gentleman in his (what seemed to be) 50s-60s in his Z06 doing about 50 in a 55mph zone with his lady friend in the passenger seat.

My friend saw the SAME guy AGAIN slowly chugging along the hwy. When his wife decides to sell it 10 yrs down the line because her husband passed away, you guys might be able to ****** it up for cheap and finally get rid of that ageing dinosaur of an FD. Oh wait, then we would be comparing the performance specs of the 10 year newer FE to an old chebby

Faster or not, I still don't like it's interior styling or its "I rear ended a wall at 50mph" ***. My friend's friend just traded in his Z06 for a new M3. His excuse? It's a frekin Chevy. Once a GM, always a GM. Sure, he knows the M3 is a little slower, but the build quality is....ohh....a HAIR better I'd say

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

When I was growing up everbody wanted a Corvette. Not me, I'm different. Hey, I own an FD can't be much different than that. I know the new Z06 is a great performing car in all cases. My goal is to beat them.
There's just something about 2 values per cylinder and push rods that turn me off. GM can do better. My goal is to have a high performing car in the 20-100mph category and not break anything. My drag simulation progran shows the Z06 does it in 8.65 seconds. I think LaBreck would not disagree. The simulator shows my car at high boost(20+psi) will do it in less than 7 seconds. If I ever run into one of them I'll just kick up the boost and make sure I have the proper octane in and blow him away. I'd like that. Same thing with Vipers.

Ken 57 years young,
'94 white, pep, red leather,
mods: Street port and polished stage II, upgraded coolant seals, Hurley 3mm racing apex seals, XS T04E Turbo Kit, GReddy SMIC, Pettit ss resonated MP, Pettit ss cat-back, RP Racing fuel pump, Aquamist 2s water injection kit, under pulley kit(no air pump), Pettit short shifter kit, boost gauge, AEM EMS, 3-bar MAP Sensor, Profec B(12-2?psi), 1600cc injectors, LaBreck bushings, Evans coolant.
<http://nopistons.com/luv94rx7.html>

Flybye

But it works

JoeD

Mike, your friend is my hero!

finally someone else with common sense, and someone that realizes speed is NOT all that. ive been thinking the same way ever since the new Z06 and M3 came out. and ever since, old Jimmy here has been pickin on me. i guess now its time for him to pick on your friend too.

JoeD

and that is the very reason why i do not like the Z06.

Flybye

It's not. It really is NOT. Most of us (except for the 16 year olds that had mom and pop buy their FD for them ) can afford an MKIV and better. Sure, the FD isn't exactly known for its build quality, but styling and interior asthetics, IMHO, gets top honors.

MPower

To me speed isn't everything but it is nice to have a car that goes. If a car in your opinion is what you want then that should be good enough.

I went into a chevy dealship after I got my M Roadster and a sales person said to me "Are you here to trade your Roadster for the ZO6? and also said you know that the Roadster is slower. I said its all about class, style and its built better. NO disrespect to the Z06. But I would rather have my Roadster just for the fact its funner to drive and its classy car.

ronarndt

waltk88- 334 rwhp back when the (stock) turbos were healthy. The vette is certainly more fun at low rpms- there is nothing like that torquey feeling that you get from a good running V8. Still like the FD for its sleeper effect. Hardly anyone, especially in rural NC, knows what an RX-7 is, so the usual crop of Camaros, Mustangs, and other NASCAR clones is easy game. Only thing I have found is that there are a few good ole boys who have really worked on the small block GM and some of those cars are super fast. So you are out in jlab's neighborhood. He convinced me to get the chevy, instead of a 3rotor from Pettit. Probably a good move on my part. (putting on flame resistant suit now).

tookwik

I've got an automatic tranny, with intake, dp, HKS exhaust, pfs ecu, manual boost controller, running on the low setting (10/12psi), the z06 took me by a car length off the line and i had him by atleast a car length at 70 mph.

the_glass_man

iTrader: (2)

I've got some small 275 Bridgestones in the rear, and the only race I've had with a Z06 is a cute yellow one on I-81 North. He got the jump on me but I walked him from 90-160, I just kept on going. Of course my car is "mostly stock"

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

M is more fun to drive are you serious? It has the same weight and almost half the hp atleast 60 - 40 front to rear weight and rocks like a boat. Its a bmw and the build quality is great but its boring to drive in comparison to the z06. BMW better build quality awsome interior awsome engine....YES its got all that but more fun to drive NO frikken way.

JoeD

have you driven a BMW M car?? how can you say one is less fun to drive simply from the hp?? speed has little to do with fun factor in a car, IMO.

im guessing the feel of a Trans Am is not that much different than a C5. a TA WS6 that i once drove did NOT rank high on the fun to drive meter. sure it did great burnouts, but thats about it.

rynberg

Hm.....

M Roadster

3131 lbs
51/49 weight distribution
315 HP@7400 rpm
251 LB-FT@4900 rpm
0-60mph in 4.7 s
1/4 in 13.2/108mph
it's a convertible

NO frikken way this could be as fun to drive????

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

Joe,
I test drove one for 30 mins which is all I needed and it was less fun to drive than the s2000 I had at the time which sucks in comparison to the fd3s. C5 is way different than the heavy *** ws6 much lighter, better suspension, etc... You need to test drive a c5 or z06. M roadster feels front heavy and also the suspension IMO feels soft for a sports car of that caliber it accelerated very smooth but felt
a bit slow due to its weight it was very easy to unsettle when braking and turning basically felt somewhat clumsy for a sports car. A c5 is much tighter and even the steering response is better believe it or not and its just gets better with the z06. I think the M weighs about 3100 about the same as the z06 with smaller tires softer suspension and too much weight in the front which is not a good feeling. Z06 50 50 weight distribution very similar go cart feel that the fd3s has which IMO is the feel all sports cars should shoot for. I consider the M a luxary sports car it looks interesting but needs to go on a diet and get redesigned with handling and performance in mind.

Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

I guess I was wrong about the weight distribution but was also referring to the later model with 240 hp and probably 5.5 to 60. Those #'s look pretty good to me I hope they improved the supsension as well. I was thinking that "M power" had an older model M but maybe not and I am sure the new one does drive much better. Anyway thanks for pointing out my error. My message was for "m power" so is yours the 240 hp m or the 315 hp m?

p.s BMW may have also even that weight out some for the 2001 m cause the older one felt front heay.

jimlab

I ran 119.2 mph with my RX-7 (Toyo Proxes T1 radials), but I wheel hopped my way to a less-than-stellar 12.9 on my best run. That's the point. High trap speed, but high E.T. also. A Z06's trap speed may be lower, but that's only because it's spending less time on the track.

In a drag race, my money is on the Z06, even against a 360+ RWHP RX-7 on street tires. I've yet to hear of someone with a high horsepower RX-7 getting down the quarter quickly enough to beat a stock '02 Z06 with a decent driver without using slicks. Obviously people don't run slicks on the street, and the Z06's 0-60 acceleration is phenomenal. Put drag radials or slicks on it, and it's probably a mid-11 ride, straight out of the box. Add a cold air intake and you've got another 15-25 RWHP. I've seen trap speeds from 118-120 mph for the '02s with an intake, and usually around 115-116 mph stock.

On the high end, from a 60 mph roll, it's a toss up. I'd expect that a 340-360 RWHP RX-7 would probably pull away, just because it will hit full boost (and therefore peak power) before the Corvette will, depending on what the driver does with his shift (in both cases). I don't believe that a ~320 RWHP RX-7 would, however. A drop to 3rd in the Z06 at 60 mph means an almost immediate 110+ mph charge with a quick shift into 4th to ~140. Dropping to 3rd in the RX-7 means roughly the same thing, with a 340+ RWHP car. If either driver blows the shift, then they've lost. As usual, with cars this closely matched, it eventually comes down to driver skill.

jimlab

Joe, horsepower and performance times are directly comparable. "Fun factor" is not.

If fun factor were a valid criteria, then probably the "funnest" car I've been behind the wheel of was my sister's CRX. Part of it probably had to do with beating the living hell out of a car that wasn't my own, although beating the hell out of my own cars is fun, too. Another part of it was that the car could be driven at or near the limits at much lower speeds, which made it far more fun on public roads. The RX-7 yawned at corners which made the tires howl on the CRX. It was slow as hell, and it was fun just trying to get the damn thing to break 85 mph on the access road to my friend Trev's dad's house. My RX-7 would do 0-150-0 on that same road all day long.

I notice that people often state that the RX-7 "feels" faster, even though numbers may prove that it's not. It has a non-linear acceleration curve because it's turbocharged, but even a slower turbo car is going to "feel" faster than a more powerful naturally aspirated car due to the more abrupt delivery of what power is available. "Feeling" faster isn't a valid measurement of performance either.

Neither is "feeling" like it handles better. Numbers don't lie. The Supra may feel like it's wallowing in corners (because it is, to some degree), but it gets around them quickly nonetheless. The Z06 feels much like the RX-7. I can throw it into an offramp with a hard banking right hand turn and know definitively that even though I'm 30 mph over the speed recommendation for the turn that it's A) going to make it, and B) going to be totally predictable and neutral while it does. The Supra would kick the back end out when accelerating out of the same turn. The Z06 just sticks and goooooes.

I don't believe that subjective "criteria" are any way to judge two cars, because they depend totally upon the preferences of the "tester". Just like magazine shoot-outs should hinge on "comfort factor", or "styling", comparing two cars on a basis which is totally at the whim of the bias of the judge is ridiculous. Compare their numbers, preferably on the same track, with the same driver, under the same climate conditions, and you have a comparison. Say that one "feels" better to drive, and you're just giving your personal opinion.

jimlab

Speed may not be "all that" for you. I, on the other hand, bought the Z06 for the suspension and engine, not for the quality of its interior. I expect GM to be a step behind (or two or three) of the German manufacturers, where the owner's tushie is the definition of quality. I'd rather snap your neck with a lot more torque and some cheap (comparatively) seats. Once again, different priorities.

GM wasn't trying to compete with Mercedes and BMW with the quality of the interior. They were trying to compete with the Viper with the quantity of the acceleration. A totally different market space, and a totally different mindset.

jimlab

No idea what a "missle motor" is. A 12.8 sounds like a stock LS1 Corvette, and the "8 coils and no distributor" is the ignition system on the LS1, which is a distributorless ignition, with an individual coil for each cylinder.

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

Jim, you get any dyno #s on your Chev V8 for your FD???

Any guesstimate on completion of the project?

Lots of us are interested.

Is a Chev V8 Auto feasable in an FD or only a 6-speed??

Ken

jimlab

Not yet. I was bumped from the weekend before last by a Pro Mod 632 cid engine, and then this last weekend slipped by because the owner was out of town, apparently. The engine is in the dyno cell, with the harness draped over the top of it, with the fuel and coolant hooked up, and I was told that they'd be tuning it sometime this week.

If I want to see how long the stock axles and differential hold up to the power, it'll be rolling under its own power by April or May. The delay to get the finished IRS with the correct differential ratio for maximum performance will take awhile longer.

You could easily put a built TH-700-R4 or TH-2004R 4-speed automatic behind the V8, and the 4L60E is basically the electronic version of the 700-R4. A 4L80E, on the other hand, is not an option.

LUV94RX7

iTrader: (3)

Jim,

Did you see the article on "unbreakable axels" on pg 46 of May Turbo by Moore Performance???

Ken

jimlab

Yep, thanks for the tip though. I have my own version of "unbreakable" axles at a fraction of the cost...



http://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/html...dent_rear.html