How To: Mesh Fender Liner inserts (engine bay)
02-25-10, 11:44 AM
#26
When in Rome...
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Rich,
I don't know if you remember but you were the one that told me that last year at DGRR. Since then I just took it off
didn't have the ***** to cut it out
.
Anyways if your not joking about a free pair of apex seals.
The "pen" is Lovenox aka, enoxaparin.
8 indications:
1. Can’t move around easily or very much
2. You have knee replacement surgery
3. You have hip replacement surgery
4. You have a blood clot in the leg (deep vein thrombosis or DVT)
5. You have a blood clot in the lungs (pulmonary embolism or PE)
6. You have belly surgery
7. You have atrial fibrillation (a type of heart rhythm)
8. To prevent any clot from getting bigger.
Dosing regimes:
- Don't take 2 shots at once to make up for a shot that was missed or late.
1. Wash hands
2. Sit or lay down (Get in a position where you can see or pinch your stomach)
3. Pick a place to give a shot (Shots should be given in the fatty parts of your stomach
4. Use a different place for ea. shot
Make sure to change where you give
the shot each time. Stay 2 inches
away from:
- Your belly button
- Any place you have had surgery
- Any place you have a scar
- Any place you have a tattoo
Think of your stomach as a clock.
Give the first shot at 1, the next shot
at 2, and so on. Do not give shots
where the hands of the clock would
be on 12 or 6. If you use your thighs,
use one leg and then the other. Start
at the top and work your way down,
then start over.
5. Clean Area with alcohol
Use a new alcohol wipe for each
shot. Scrub the area several times
and let the alcohol dry completely
6. Remove cap from needle DO NOT twist cap. Possibility of bending needle.
7. Get Ready to give shot
8. Pinch the place (with free hand) where you are going to give the shot.
9. Give the shot.
Holding the needle straight against the pinched skin, push the needle all
the way in. Then, push the plunger all the way in. Hold the plunger in
while you pull the needle straight out. Let go of the pinched skin.
10. Push hard on plunger.
11. Throw shot away (properly).
YOU SHOULD FOLLOW YOUR DOCTOR'S EXACT INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW LONG
YOU CAN CONTINUE TO USE THIS DRUG.
Anyways. Hope that was the right drug or else that would suck
Was fun trying anyways.
BTW: Are you some sort of nurse/med tech or something?
I was a nursing student and trained for EMT.
~Shar
I don't know if you remember but you were the one that told me that last year at DGRR. Since then I just took it off
didn't have the ***** to cut it out. Anyways if your not joking about a free pair of apex seals.
The "pen" is Lovenox aka, enoxaparin.
8 indications:
1. Can’t move around easily or very much
2. You have knee replacement surgery
3. You have hip replacement surgery
4. You have a blood clot in the leg (deep vein thrombosis or DVT)
5. You have a blood clot in the lungs (pulmonary embolism or PE)
6. You have belly surgery
7. You have atrial fibrillation (a type of heart rhythm)
8. To prevent any clot from getting bigger.
Dosing regimes:
- Don't take 2 shots at once to make up for a shot that was missed or late.
1. Wash hands
2. Sit or lay down (Get in a position where you can see or pinch your stomach)
3. Pick a place to give a shot (Shots should be given in the fatty parts of your stomach
4. Use a different place for ea. shot
Make sure to change where you give
the shot each time. Stay 2 inches
away from:
- Your belly button
- Any place you have had surgery
- Any place you have a scar
- Any place you have a tattoo
Think of your stomach as a clock.
Give the first shot at 1, the next shot
at 2, and so on. Do not give shots
where the hands of the clock would
be on 12 or 6. If you use your thighs,
use one leg and then the other. Start
at the top and work your way down,
then start over.
5. Clean Area with alcohol
Use a new alcohol wipe for each
shot. Scrub the area several times
and let the alcohol dry completely
6. Remove cap from needle DO NOT twist cap. Possibility of bending needle.
7. Get Ready to give shot
8. Pinch the place (with free hand) where you are going to give the shot.
9. Give the shot.
Holding the needle straight against the pinched skin, push the needle all
the way in. Then, push the plunger all the way in. Hold the plunger in
while you pull the needle straight out. Let go of the pinched skin.
10. Push hard on plunger.
11. Throw shot away (properly).
YOU SHOULD FOLLOW YOUR DOCTOR'S EXACT INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW LONG
YOU CAN CONTINUE TO USE THIS DRUG.
Anyways. Hope that was the right drug or else that would suck
Was fun trying anyways.
BTW: Are you some sort of nurse/med tech or something?
I was a nursing student and trained for EMT.
~Shar
02-25-10, 12:25 PM
#27
Racecar - Formula 2000
This area has long been known to automotive aerodynamicists as a high-pressure area. Many cars have been designed with rearward facing scoops in that area to feed the intake due to the high pressure available there.
Here are links to several threads that support my statements:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...d+weatherstrip
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/removing-seal-b-w-firewall-hood-bad-engine-temp-330649/
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...d+weatherstrip
02-25-10, 12:37 PM
#28
I saw some posts and other data a few years back that indicated that the hood weather-strip area was very high pressure due to the windshield being just behind it. It was high-pressure enough to cause REVERSE air flow INTO the engine compartment if the weather-strip was removed.
This area has long been known to automotive aerodynamics experts as a high-pressure area. Many cars have been designed with rearward facing scoops in that area to feed the intake due to the high pressure available there.
This area has long been known to automotive aerodynamics experts as a high-pressure area. Many cars have been designed with rearward facing scoops in that area to feed the intake due to the high pressure available there.
I don't think water was being flung into the engine bay when driving through water with this mod. Rich knows someone who has done this mod with no negative side affects.
02-25-10, 01:00 PM
#29
Original Gangster/Rotary!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (213)
nope.
the turbo/dp area isn't sealed off. I'm no airflow expert, but I don't imagine that'll be an issue.
Anecdotal, but my dad has driven in some pretty bad rainstorms and I was surprised to see his engine bay didn't get any additional water in from the mesh area.
Yeah, we'll see how it helps...... I think if anything it will assist at triple digit speeds.
Yeah, we'll see how it helps...... I think if anything it will assist at triple digit speeds.
02-25-10, 01:09 PM
#31
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IMO, that will not work as desired. I saw some posts and other data a few years back that indicated that the hood weather-strip area was very high pressure due to the windshield being just behind it. It was high-pressure enough to cause REVERSE air flow INTO the engine compartment if the weather-strip was removed.
This area has long been known to automotive aerodynamicists as a high-pressure area. Many cars have been designed with rearward facing scoops in that area to feed the intake due to the high pressure available there.
Here are links to several threads that support my statements:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...d+weatherstrip
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=330649
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...d+weatherstrip
This area has long been known to automotive aerodynamicists as a high-pressure area. Many cars have been designed with rearward facing scoops in that area to feed the intake due to the high pressure available there.
Here are links to several threads that support my statements:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...d+weatherstrip
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=330649
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...d+weatherstrip
02-25-10, 01:18 PM
#33
Interesting concept. I am planning on trying several different things at the track this year and may need to add this to the list. I hope I can accumulate some data on this in the year to come maybe. I own a traqmate which is a data acquistion tool for us track rats that, along with a ton of other things, breaks down segments on track. It will be able to tell me to the .001 of a second what the time difference is on any segment of the track I so choose. I'd obviously have to run, at a minimum, a session with the fender liners engine compartment closed and a session with the holes "open" with the screen in place. It would be great to do multiple sessions, but I just don't think I'd care that much to go through all the trouble.
02-25-10, 01:40 PM
#34
Racecar - Formula 2000
1. We know that decreasing air flow velocity relative to a solid object creates a high pressure area - for example, holding your hand in an airstream creates a high pressure in front of it.
2. We also know that increasing air flow velocity relative to a solid object creates a low pressure - for example, top of an aircraft wing, or a venturi.
3. In between these 2, we have a continuum between higher than atmospheric and lower than atmospheric pressure.
4. For useable windshield angles, the pressure (velocity) in front of the windshield near its base (the location we are discussing) is closer to (1) than (2).
5. As we move up from the windshield base to its junction with the roof, the air pressure decreases (velocity increases), and somewhere near the roof/windshield junction (usually slightly aft of this, depending on the roof contour), the pressure will become less than atmospheric (lift).
Another way to visualize this is to picture a symmetrical airfoil shape oriented horizontally in a horizontal airflow. The front tip of the airfoil (analogous to the base of the windshield) will be at high pressure, but the horizontal surfaces at the top and bottom will be at low pressure due to the increased flow velocity.
I know this sounds like a lot of hand-waving, but w/o equations or a wind tunnel, that's the best I can think of at the moment.
Dave
02-25-10, 07:55 PM
#36
Racecar - Formula 2000
He was asking why opening the hood slightly at the back (suggested by Fritz Flynn) doesn't work. I was explaining that, not the mesh vent effectiveness...
Dave
02-25-10, 08:47 PM
#37
Err, no, its not really.
Re read the quotes in the 1st post:
From Goodfellas:
The idea behind this 'mod' is to relieve a high pressure area (the engine bay) by allowing air to exit. I have to give credit where it's due:
[taken from this thread: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/want-cooler-engine-bay-without-changing-hood-530715/ ]
A much better solution is to cut out the plastic fender liner openings that are visible from the inside of the engine compartment. Way back in 1995 when I did a lot of testing on my first FD, I had found that cutting both of those wheel well areas out and replacing the plastic with an open wire screen, actually reduced my 60 - 160 MPH acceleration times a full 1.5 seconds. That is a HUGE gain in anyones book. It was tested 4 times and results were consistent.
Thus, my conlusion is that removing those liners drop pressure build up inside of your engine compartment which, also should allows for a much better exchange of air as it is allowed to flow thorugh instead of being trapped underhood.
BTW - I just did that very mod on my 2nd FD a few weeks ago.
Thus, my conlusion is that removing those liners drop pressure build up inside of your engine compartment which, also should allows for a much better exchange of air as it is allowed to flow thorugh instead of being trapped underhood.
BTW - I just did that very mod on my 2nd FD a few weeks ago.
I truly have not noticed much additional dirt accumulation. After all, the air is supposed to be moving out of the compartment instead of IN. I assume that in rainy conditions you would get more wet inside than normally but, I do not drive this car much in the rains. The first FD, however, was a daily driver and I even raced it in the rain with no problems.
It helps to either relocate your battery for a clean air flow path from the radiator or, have on sit on its side (Odessay), like mine. On the pass. side the M2 box tends to be blocking air exit to a point but, altogether, I still think the opening there is beneficial as underhood pressures will find the way around a blocking element to exit.
Edit; To answer your question I never did underhood temperature tests in this car. My goals were primarily driven by high speed performance gains and cooling was never a problem for me.
Also, diffusers are designed not so much to block air from getting under the bumper but, to provide a low pressure area under the back of the car. When you gradually expend a restricted high pressure air flow (as diffusers do) the air pressure will drop to the point where instead of positive pressure it can create negative pressure or vacum.
Formula and other racing cars that use that simple technology by creating diffused air tunnels under their sidepods can develp huge downforces. As an example, when I raced Formula Mazda with front and back wings but no diffusers, my downforce was adjustable probably between 200-400 lbs at high speeds. On the other hand, a Formula Atlantic car with much smaller wings BUT, underpod diffusers had developed 2400 lbs of downforce at 140 MPH. Plenty enough for that car to be driven on a ceiling, upside down and be sucked to that ceiling.
That is why it was impossible for my FM to keep up with a well driven FA in corners.
It helps to either relocate your battery for a clean air flow path from the radiator or, have on sit on its side (Odessay), like mine. On the pass. side the M2 box tends to be blocking air exit to a point but, altogether, I still think the opening there is beneficial as underhood pressures will find the way around a blocking element to exit.
Edit; To answer your question I never did underhood temperature tests in this car. My goals were primarily driven by high speed performance gains and cooling was never a problem for me.
Also, diffusers are designed not so much to block air from getting under the bumper but, to provide a low pressure area under the back of the car. When you gradually expend a restricted high pressure air flow (as diffusers do) the air pressure will drop to the point where instead of positive pressure it can create negative pressure or vacum.
Formula and other racing cars that use that simple technology by creating diffused air tunnels under their sidepods can develp huge downforces. As an example, when I raced Formula Mazda with front and back wings but no diffusers, my downforce was adjustable probably between 200-400 lbs at high speeds. On the other hand, a Formula Atlantic car with much smaller wings BUT, underpod diffusers had developed 2400 lbs of downforce at 140 MPH. Plenty enough for that car to be driven on a ceiling, upside down and be sucked to that ceiling.
That is why it was impossible for my FM to keep up with a well driven FA in corners.
To place it in perspective my 1.5 second gain was off of a time of approximately 25 seconds, (60-160) without pulling out my old records. If I remember correctly that was one of the last mods I did before the crash.
BTW- not that extreme gain when compared to an other test that I ran with both headlights up and down. The air resistance introduced by the raised headlights increased the same 60-160 acceleration times by over 1 second. So, we're taking about roughly the same amount of reduction in drag in both cases.
BTW- not that extreme gain when compared to an other test that I ran with both headlights up and down. The air resistance introduced by the raised headlights increased the same 60-160 acceleration times by over 1 second. So, we're taking about roughly the same amount of reduction in drag in both cases.
02-25-10, 09:30 PM
#38
Nonetheless I think the concept of venting the liners has some merit. The degree of effectiveness is however questionable and evidence appears to be anecdotal.
IMHO the better solution is simply a vented hood.
Regards,
crispy
02-25-10, 09:56 PM
#40
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Not for the sake of arguing, but I haven't seen any aftermarket or custom FD hoods that are as much of an eyesore as that mesh.
Ya know, it would be REAL easy for anyone reading this thread to simply take off their liners next time at the drag strip for some back to back runs.
Ya know, it would be REAL easy for anyone reading this thread to simply take off their liners next time at the drag strip for some back to back runs.
02-25-10, 10:22 PM
#41
Agree. But some are proven effective at reducing underhood temperatures and pressure.
Oh shame on you! Since when did ANYTHING aftermarket for an FD ever fit without tweaking something? Besides I think my hood fits pretty well. :P
Well ya if you leave it parked in the rain! Duh Driving in the rain I've not seen any significant rain intrusion. Either that or I have driven fast enough in the rain that nothing gets in.
Then again I can count on two hand the number of times my car has been driven in the rain and half of those have been at the track.
....but yet so many people buy them...huh...I wonder why if they usually look like poo?
hehe
You know you're still my hero though.
Crispy
(b) rarely fit well
(c) allow serious rainwater into the bay and
Driving in the rain I've not seen any significant rain intrusion. Either that or I have driven fast enough in the rain that nothing gets in. Then again I can count on two hand the number of times my car has been driven in the rain and half of those have been at the track.
(d) usually look like poo.
hehe
You know you're still my hero though.
Crispy
02-25-10, 10:30 PM
#43
Original Gangster/Rotary!
Thread Starter
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Not for the sake of arguing, but I haven't seen any aftermarket or custom FD hoods that are as much of an eyesore as that mesh.
Ya know, it would be REAL easy for anyone reading this thread to simply take off their liners next time at the drag strip for some back to back runs.
Ya know, it would be REAL easy for anyone reading this thread to simply take off their liners next time at the drag strip for some back to back runs.
I don't know how fast your FD runs the 1/4, but as has been stated a few times, if indeed this helps at all, it'll probably be at higher speeds...... speeds that a stock car won't even see in the 1320.
02-25-10, 10:36 PM
#45
On the track I set the PFC (and oil temp gauge) to record peak temps after the first lap (the first lap you are still suffering from heat soak - another reason why I don't blast out of the pits on the first lap)
But back to the fender vents. I am genuinely interested on more info on the effectiveness of those who have them installed. Esecially the assertion regarding the reduction in wind resistance and resultant quicker accellerations and faster trap speeds.
Regards,
crispy
02-25-10, 10:42 PM
#46
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this seems very interesting and also for me very very important.
since i have to achieve 200mph within 1.7miles, if i could potentially save 1.5secs+ on my acceleration then that will make my life alot easier, i shall bookmark this thread for the future as little things like this can make the difference between pass or fail
since i have to achieve 200mph within 1.7miles, if i could potentially save 1.5secs+ on my acceleration then that will make my life alot easier, i shall bookmark this thread for the future as little things like this can make the difference between pass or fail
02-26-10, 02:10 PM
#50
Rotary Freak
Originally Posted by DaveW
I know this sounds like a lot of hand-waving, but w/o equations or a wind tunnel, that's the best I can think of at the moment.
One of the guys here has removed the strip, reporting a decrease in temps on probably one of the longest straights in the world - so possibly swirling off at the edge of the screen - he did report a low top-end, so maybe a large drag penalty??
There's also been modeling of wheel wells. There's low pressure at the top of a spinning wheel, high pressure at the front and a very small area at the rear....sounds like the correct position to remove the liner. You wonder where that air goes too, but sides of the car might be fairly turbulent already.