how many people upgrade your midpipe with no problems?
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 30,804
Likes: 646
From: FL-->NJ/NYC again!
Originally Posted by WaLieN
I hardly flame people for misinformation, but this one deserves a flame. Also, do note that others have covered this.
Ahem.
This is the largest crock of **** I have heard in on this board in a long time. What causes boost creep, you say? Well, boost creep is caused by an excess in exhaust flow which exceeds the capacity of the wastegate. In turn, you have excess boost pressure which is not compensated for by our ECUs.
Now, how would a BOV prevent this from happening? A BOV simply purges boost pressure when it senses a set amount of vaccum due to the throttle plates closing to prevent the turbo from surging. When there is boost, the BOV is CLOSED. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BOOST CREEP WHICH IS ONLY SEEN WHEN THE THROTTLE IS OPEN.
It is true that some people have been able to run midpipes without seeing boost creep. Using this as a blanket statement is like saying "heroin is a-okay since I know a guy who was on it for years and didn't die". Such findings can be due to variables such as high exhaust restrictions, turbo manifold leaks, etc. I have even heard of people who see slight boost creep with high flow metalicats. It all varies from setup to setup, but a large majority of the stock sequentials w/ full exhaust usually see boost creep.
Maybe it's you that we should be filtering.
Ahem.
This is the largest crock of **** I have heard in on this board in a long time. What causes boost creep, you say? Well, boost creep is caused by an excess in exhaust flow which exceeds the capacity of the wastegate. In turn, you have excess boost pressure which is not compensated for by our ECUs.
Now, how would a BOV prevent this from happening? A BOV simply purges boost pressure when it senses a set amount of vaccum due to the throttle plates closing to prevent the turbo from surging. When there is boost, the BOV is CLOSED. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BOOST CREEP WHICH IS ONLY SEEN WHEN THE THROTTLE IS OPEN.
It is true that some people have been able to run midpipes without seeing boost creep. Using this as a blanket statement is like saying "heroin is a-okay since I know a guy who was on it for years and didn't die". Such findings can be due to variables such as high exhaust restrictions, turbo manifold leaks, etc. I have even heard of people who see slight boost creep with high flow metalicats. It all varies from setup to setup, but a large majority of the stock sequentials w/ full exhaust usually see boost creep.
Maybe it's you that we should be filtering.
well said.
Passion
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
From: Edmonton
Originally Posted by Joe Geiman
I seem to have no issues but I run a 3" mid and down pipe into the factory cat back. Boost is 12-10-12 and it is quiet. Everything else is stock. When I change the cat-back Iwill need to follow the advice you guys are giving.
I believe fuel quality is a major issue too. I would run race gas if it wasn't so expensive to keep detonation at bay.
I believe fuel quality is a major issue too. I would run race gas if it wasn't so expensive to keep detonation at bay.
I wonder how much restriction the stock catback really is? Is it enough to keep boost creep away even on cool days? Or other 'boost inducing' factors?
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 481
Likes: 0
From: Oklahoma
Originally Posted by f150rx7
Chunky were not hating on you but what rynberg and walien said is very true,this is probably for your own good anyway, one month of your car running fine is not enough to prove it.
Thanks,
Shawn
Originally Posted by WaLieN
Ahem.
Now, how would a BOV prevent this from happening? A BOV simply purges boost pressure when it senses a set amount of vaccum due to the throttle plates closing to prevent the turbo from surging. When there is boost, the BOV is CLOSED. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BOOST CREEP WHICH IS ONLY SEEN WHEN THE THROTTLE IS OPEN... you that we should be filtering.
Now, how would a BOV prevent this from happening? A BOV simply purges boost pressure when it senses a set amount of vaccum due to the throttle plates closing to prevent the turbo from surging. When there is boost, the BOV is CLOSED. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BOOST CREEP WHICH IS ONLY SEEN WHEN THE THROTTLE IS OPEN... you that we should be filtering.
hey now maybe his BOV leaks... That would save him from overboosting lol
Originally Posted by hanman
I was running a mid pipe on my new FD. No boost creep, BECAUSE, the previous owner never replaced the stock cat back. He was an idiot. Dave at KDR rotary told him to get rid of the midpipe because that is what blew his engine.
I ran:
CAI
PFS SMIC
STREETPORT
DP
MP
STOCK CATBACK
STOCK ECU
for over a year... WOT all the freaking time. I made sure I controlled my boost to 10 and was fine.
I chose to go MP first to reduce heat and increase flow...
Originally Posted by driFDer
Did anyone control thier boost creep somewhat by adding a resonated midpipe?
Originally Posted by driFDer
Did anyone control thier boost creep somewhat by adding a resonated midpipe?
If you want to control creep you port the waste gate or a restriction.
After I added my RB cat-back (I already had a DP and MP) I got 1 psi of creep. But I had some previous porting done on my turbos so it crept my creep to a minimum. Highest uncontrolled boost is 11 psi after that my boost controller works very well.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: socal
so quick question, since i have dual n1 with an mp but no dp. I was wondering if i just go take my car to get tuned, would that take care of the creep? I have had soem days with no creep, and in some gears i get close to 13psi. I have the pfc and commander, a fmic and koyo radiator. I was thinking of just taking the car to get it tuned to run like 12 psi or so. would i need a bigger fuel pump? and or bigger injectors? iam runing stock twins.
Lives on the Forum
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 14,716
Likes: 10
From: San Lorenzo, California
Originally Posted by nocomply24
so quick question, since i have dual n1 with an mp but no dp. I was wondering if i just go take my car to get tuned, would that take care of the creep? I have had soem days with no creep, and in some gears i get close to 13psi. I have the pfc and commander, a fmic and koyo radiator. I was thinking of just taking the car to get it tuned to run like 12 psi or so. would i need a bigger fuel pump? and or bigger injectors? iam runing stock twins.
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 886
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, Texas
Originally Posted by rynberg
The solution is to:
*install restrictor plates
*port the wastegate
*don't run a midpipe and go with a hi-flow cat instead
*install restrictor plates
*port the wastegate
*don't run a midpipe and go with a hi-flow cat instead
Thanks.
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
From: Sweden
Rynberg is right here, it will creep, more or less.
I installed a midpipe 2 months ago just to see who was right. As i suspected i got boost creep. My boost went up to ~0,85 bar. I just did one run with this setup, because my PFC said that my injectors was working at 98%!!! And that was on the street. To solve this i just installed my cat-back restrictor (2") and the boost went back to ~0,7 bar and 80-85% injectors. (+ i got rid of that awful sound!)
My stock injectors use around 80-85% on the street as i just said, but when i track my car they usualy go up to 90-92%. That means, if i used a midpipe without any restricor on the track, my injectors should be working at 100%+, and that cant be good. I think it would kill the engine really quick.
So, if you care about your enging you shouldent run with a midpipe without more fuel. Im sure it would hold for a couple of years if you dont drive so hard, but a warm day or a bad tank of fuel could destroy the engine in no time.
Btw, my enginesetup is: PFC, Greddy SMIC + the standard intake and exaust mods.
I installed a midpipe 2 months ago just to see who was right. As i suspected i got boost creep. My boost went up to ~0,85 bar. I just did one run with this setup, because my PFC said that my injectors was working at 98%!!! And that was on the street. To solve this i just installed my cat-back restrictor (2") and the boost went back to ~0,7 bar and 80-85% injectors. (+ i got rid of that awful sound!)
My stock injectors use around 80-85% on the street as i just said, but when i track my car they usualy go up to 90-92%. That means, if i used a midpipe without any restricor on the track, my injectors should be working at 100%+, and that cant be good. I think it would kill the engine really quick.
So, if you care about your enging you shouldent run with a midpipe without more fuel. Im sure it would hold for a couple of years if you dont drive so hard, but a warm day or a bad tank of fuel could destroy the engine in no time.
Btw, my enginesetup is: PFC, Greddy SMIC + the standard intake and exaust mods.
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: virgin islands
Originally Posted by jpandes
I run a midpipe with NO bnoost creep and a stock wastegate. I'm pretty sure mu cat-back is restrictive(it reduces down to 2.5" at the flange-I need to change that)
Usually you won't see creep until it's cool outside and you're getting a lot more oxygen into your engine. This in turn creates more exhaust. I see absolutely no creep when it's 75-85F outside, but once it drops below 75F I start seeing a few lbs of creep. I have a fully ported wastegate. Porting will help reduce creep, but you will still get creep with the right conditions.
Originally Posted by nocomply24
Also guys if i get a highflow cat do i still have to port my wastegate? Is this going to stop the creep?
High Flow Cat
I have owned 5 high flow cat setups over the years and found this solution always solved boost creep. I would recommend the ceramic cats over the metal substrate due to the ceramics abiity to deal with the EGT's. How do I know this? Both Chris Carlisi and me purchased two metal cats when we went single some 2 1/2 years ago. We both noticed problems with flow, as time went by (dyno results) Upon examination of the cats, we both found they had shrunk inside their housing's and were actually moving back and forth if you shook the unit. I called the the engineering dept at Dynotech and was told the rotory's EGT's overheated the metal substrate and after cooling the core had shrunk. He advised me to purchase a ceramic cat due to their ability to work with the rotory's high exhaust temps.
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