DamonB

That's why when man invented the car he also invented the "accelerator pedal". The beauty of the accelerator pedal is that you can actually control how much power the engine makes. You're no longer just stuck with "on" or "off"! It was a very big advancement in its time.

You just did a perfect job of describing a stupid driver. No matter what kind of car or what kind of weather if you can't fooking SEE far enough ahead of you in time to do anything then slow the hell down. Christ.

Some people make good decisions and some people just make excuses.

RotorJoe

The rain is a great equalizer. The car handles so well to begin with that you already have a leg up on other cars. When it rains, same story. The car handles better then a truck in the rain so why do we bitch.

I live in the forever rainy state of Washington. I've learned to drive in the rain/snow and actually really enjoy driving in the rain/snow. I have no problem in the rain. I found that the car is still well above it capabilities at 70 in the rain on the freeway.

The FD is parked when it snows, although the FB just loves it. I remember once in my old 5.0L mustang (while snowing) this lady in her four wheel drive truck started to slide off the road while going up this hill I lived on. The only way in hell I was making it up was with momentum and I sure as hell was not going to wait for her to slide to a stop before I went around. She had to have been just shocked that I can make it up but she can't in her 4x4, haha. Learn how to drive in the conditions, driver training is the key. Sorry for the off topic comment.

Drive like you stole it rain or dry. I even dip into boost in the rain. The trick is (like what Damon said) the throttle is not an “on/off” switch. Just learn your car and what it can and can’t do in the rain. Do be skuurd fellas.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

That's just wrong. The FD is light, and very powerful. That is UNLIKE just about every other car on the road. It must be driven with extra caution in the rain. An inexperienced driver is at far greater risk in this car in the rain. That's a proven fact!! All you have to do is look at a few "I just wrecked my car" threads.

It certainly does not do the same thing as any other car out there.

WaLieN

I agree with you, but a good majority of those threads also include people who hit boost around corners, have tires with low tread, or fall asleep and hit a hydrant. User error is the problem.

John Magnuson

Well... of course every car is different and since people tend to push sports cars and drive them aggressively extra caution is needed in low traction situtations.

But the FD is still a car and has similar characteristics to many other cars when driving in the rain.

I admit I spun my FD once in the rain. Went around a very slick curve too fast and my rear tires were very worn down. Fortunately I stayed on the road.

Check those tires before you drive in the rain.

quicksilver_rx7

Hmm, I wonder how the damn thing would do with some snow shoes?

Joe

DigDug

I cannot agree enough with the need to have capable rain tires, at least for track use. I got stuck running slicks in the rain last season, and it was scary! No matter how comfortable/familiar you are with the car, hydroplaning can make you a passenger in no time if you're not careful. All I can say is, avoid standing water!

And yet, slicks are the fastest in anything less than standing water.

For street use, as long as you keep close to the speed limit, wet-capable tires aren't nearly as critical. However, better tires will give you a greater margin for error. The average driver would certainly benefit from this, but if you can really drive, it shouldn't be a deal-breaker to run less-capable tires in the rain.

Of course, if you feel like you need to set a new fastest lap around your neighborhood in the rain, you should probably pull over and walk home.

13Beast REW

Hmm... maybe you just didnt read the very first post in this thread. Please don't mistake that as me trying to be an *** or anything. Its just the first thought that came to mind after reading your reply. Anyway...

Yes the FD is very light and also very powerful when you're at full boost. However, full boost in the rain is something that should be reserved for those of us who are just as comfortable and capable in the rain (giving respect to reduced traction) as we are on dry roads.

The FD does however handle about the same way as any other light weight boost FR as I stated ealier. Any boosted vehicle will likely break the wheels free when boost comes on, not just the FD.

Trust I love the FD more than anyone else and wouldn't trade it for any other vehicle but I don't worship the damn thing. Its just a high performance vehicle. Go drive a boosted miata or hell a boosted Supra or Stang. The results will be the same as in the FD. Its more dependent on the power to weight ratio along with the available traction in the tires coupled with the ability of the driver to control the vehicle.

The FD is a vehicle chassis on rubber tires just like all other vehicles on the road. First underdstand its capabilities then don't overstep them and you can be just as comfortable driving your FD in the rain as any other person driving a Daewoo.

13Beast REW

I agree with you for the most part however, most people do not have common sense enough to control a high powered FR car on the street with rain specific tires let alone standard all seasons or Z-rated tires. So I do stress to those specific people (the majority) to strap their cars with tires with a decent wet rating and greater than 30% tread.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Not overstepping them in the rain can be difficult for an inexperienced operator. Forget about full boost, ANY boost can easily get you going the wrong way.

13Beast REW

Thats understood and that is also who this thread is targeted toward.

quicksilver_rx7

99.9% of FD's on the road have ultra high performance tires on them. Nobody is going to go buy a set of tires just to drive in the rain.

The weight of the car or the tires are not really the issue. The real issues lie in the distribution of the available weight and the experience that a person has with a car that has 50/50 weight distribution. Different cars handle differently because of two major factors: suspension type and weight distribution. That is why FWD cars are more driveable in the snow. Because the majority of the weight is on the drive wheels. The same reason people put concrete blocks or whatever else in the bed of their truck in the winter time; to put more weight on the drive wheels.

Bottom Line. It takes experience to drive a "balanced" car in any adverse weather conditions. Of course the track junkies will have more experience because they spend a lot of time pushing the car to its limits. For those people that own these cars as merely a weekend cruiser, don't drive in the rain.

Joe

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Chris, I'm not scared to drive the car. You should ask the crew that drove up in our caravan to Rotary Revolution two years back. The kinda stuff I pulled... But the fact remains, I do not PURPOSELY put the car in harm's way. And I don't care how high some ppl on this forum are w/ their egos, anything less than 100% dry well maintained and clean pavement is LESS than ideal, and is accident PRONE. It is endangering yourself and your car. And like many others, I use my head when it comes to protecting something I care about so well.

I ask anyone and everyone a simple question: in rain, no matter how slow you are going...is there not a significantly reduced amount of traction between the rubber and the ground? And in there lies the answer. End of story.

Also, many of you are forgetting the big picture. It's not just you and me. It's all the idiots around us (assuming we're not the "nut behind the wheel"). A lot of ppl don't know how to drive in rain, or don't drive carefully/slow enough in the rain. Imagine Mr. Ideal RX-7 Driver, driving all carefully and slow...and Mr. Pickup truck tries cutting between two cars at 70mph, hydroplanes, overcorrects, and plows into your quarter panel. There goes your car.

Now you may say every second you're on the road in any weather you're at risk. Yes, that's true. But there are acceptable levels of risk, and there are adaptations you make according to that level of risk. Driving when it's clear and dry are acceptable. Driving when it's raining, you adapt to make it acceptable. Choose a better car, not only for driving performance, but also to minimize the damage in the event accidents happen (and they do). Driving in snow is impractical. But wait...there are ppl who live in Alaska! Of course...and that's why the standard of what is acceptable risk varies, because they don't have another option. But they adapt accordingly. Snow tires, chains, etc

Point is, I think you're doing a disservice by downplaying the dangers of driving the FD in the rain - not just the dangers caused by you, but by those around you. It's just like the 16 year old who swears he can drive perfect, but is STILL accident prone, because driving is a lot more than just what YOU do....it's 50% what OTHERS do.

Damon, I respect you...so plz don't disrespect me and talk down to me like that. I'm not an idiot. I know all about the accelerator pedal. But I also know that most ppl on this forum are not high performance drivers. $20 says if you brought me a list of 20 guys on the forum - random guys w/ FDs - and we told them to drive for 5 minutes in absolute dry clear conditions w/o making any boost, they'd almost all fail. I can do it VERY well, but you can't assume that just cuz ppl have a hot car they're hot drivers. K? That's the blunt truth.

No, I did a perfect example of reiterating what KEEPS HAPPENING AND IS REPORTED ON THE FORUM. Stupid or not, that's what we're dealing w/. So downplaying the issue is again, a disservice to other FD owners. And FYI, many times, visibility is virtually nil in heavy rain. And sometimes you can't just wait it out. So what do ppl do? They drive ANYWAYS, and try and see what they can see. Not smart, but I'm dealing w/ what HAPPENS, not hypothetical ideal situations. And they hydroplane, hit a puddle, miss a turn, hit a guardrail, catch some gravel, etc... and you know the rest. You'fe read about it more than I have on the forum. Lets not pretend it doesn't happen.

Yea...and the best decision you can make is to leave the FD home when it rains. But hey...you're making excuses so...

Exactly. The weight issue doesn't disappear. It's there 24/7, and will ALWAYS affect the car. I'm not an engineer, but I'm sure the weight of the vehicle plays a considerable role in the effect and duration of hydroplaning. I've been almost 90mph in the rain before in the FD...it was doing just GREAT. But I also knew that if ANYTHING TINY went wrong, there was NO recovery.

You know what the problem is? You're usually at a huge disadvantage. Rain = clouds = less light = decreased visibility. Plus you have water reflecting light off your windshield. So you can only see and anticipate so much. In plain English, like you said, it's very dangerous.

Whatcha smokin man? We have ppl on the forum who lose control and spin the car in BROAD DAYLIGHT with perfect visibility, and 100% dry roads. Most ppl don't have enough experience driving the FD in DRY conditions. You're giving them tips on how to drive in the RAIN? Come on... Dear God. That encouragement is wholly reckless in my humble opinion.

EXACTLY. Any boost in a decreased traction situation is asking for disaster. Heck, you shouldn't even be boosting in DRY conditions when the wheels are still turned. Some boost in the rain? I'll be keeping an eye out for the "totalled FD in the rain" threads.

Joe, you wanna bet? You know how many kids I've talked to who were looking for the "cheapest tire" that fit? I've seen some junk on FDs. FD's (at least the R model) came w/ Pirelli P-Zero's STOCK, which are very expensive ultra high performance tires. That was done for a reason. Ppl don't realize that, so don't assume they do.

Absolutely...it does take experience. You should see me w/ my FB. Holy smokes...I can go around 90 degree turns at 40mph, car sideways, and control the turn PERFECTLY. I can lose it and still get it back. But, I know how dangerous and reckless it is to be doing such things...and I've been practicing for a WHILE. Plus, the FB lacks any necessary power to lose control suddenly from throttle-related mistakes. It's definitely light enough to just float on the water tho haha (2200 lbs). But I NEVER...and I mean NEVER suggest to someone to go and do what I do, especially when they're not experiened in driving their FD in the first place. Heck, I'm still learning my way around the FD in high performance situations. It's not an easy car to master. So for a track junkie to tell ppl it's all good and dandy and leave ppl relaxed is asking for trouble. Play it safe, protect your investment, and be smart w/ your advice is all I'm asking for. Rain = less than ideal traction conditions, and that IS the bottom line. Drive at your own risk - be it your mistake or the mistake of others around you.

My $0.02
~Ramy

BobfisH

JEEZ Ramy, thats your 2 cents? 200 dollars more like!!!!

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

13Beast REW

Hell yeah. lol. Good job Ramy but as you know... like any other person I gotta defend myself. lol

I said I stress tires with a decent wet rating not rain specific. There are ultra high performance tires with a halfway decent rain traction and some with damn good rain traction... Potenza S-02s, Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3s, ADVAN Neova AD07s, there are pleny more... and if you dont want to break the bank hell at un $100 each from tirerack the Yokohama AVSs aren't bad either.

LOL, I loved this one. These people specifically would seem to need as many driving tips as the can possibly get. I don't quite think I was implying that by following every suggestion I listed that they'd never have another issue with driving on wet pavement, if I did... it wasn't the intention. I do believe that somewhere in this thread I hinted toward a driver familiarizing themselves with the car in the rain in an open area as an attempt to improve skill at handling in the rain. Its not the same caliber skill development arena as an open track but its something more than most driving schools I've ever scene even talk about let alone attempt to address in a hands on type of situation.

Like I said, they seem to need as many tips as possible and I don't see where I was encouraging anyone to go out on public road the next time the skies open up and drive like water + rubber = poor man's soft compound racing tires. Reckless... I think thats a bit much. I see where you're going with it but I can't agree.

Don

DamonB

The "blunt truth" is that if anyone insists you must have some sort of special high performance driving talent to drive an FD safely in the rain they are flat wrong IMO. Driving on the street is not about trailbraking or double apexes, it's about making good decisions and not being stupid. Anybody who exercises some sense can safely travel from Point A to Point B in any weather condition because they will actually think about what they are doing and plan ahead. How well they can operate the car at the very limit of control doesn't matter because they have sense enough to not let the car approach that limit.


I've never met anyone who thinks they are a bad driver and I'll also be the first one to say that just because you own a "hot car" doesn't mean you're a good driver, just as the owners of economy cars aren't automatically bad drivers.

And those people are dumb. If someone is driving faster than they can see and has an accident they were stupid, no matter what car they are in. Oh sure they'll give us a long response ("excuse") about why it is they wrecked the car but they always fail to realize that they could have prevented the accident by using some sense. They never see themselves as the driver playing a role. It's always the weather's fault, or the road's, or the handicapped old lady, or the turbocharger, or the old tires, or the... Nobody ever admits to just pressing their luck in conditions they shouldn't have.

Shinobi-X

I dunno Ramy...if that were the case, then parking my car on a hill in the rain could also induce some sliding? There is still friction (granted you have decent grooves and good tread life), and driving slower, under no boost, with proper tires honestly lessen the effects of rain to the point where its hardly a problem. I've never had difficulty operating the FD in the rain, but then I check my driving habits and tires religously. Visibility if anything is something to argue, as well as other drivers inhabiting the road- but the latter of the two presents a problem in any vehicle, under any circumstance (you know of the water-soluble intelligence of the tri-state area motorist) .

Is the FD potentially a bad car for driving in the rain? Without a doubt...its potentially a poor selection of vehicle for many to be driving as-is...but in the hands of the right owner, I'd say its a car thats quite capable in the rain with proper attention to detail. I've seen enough people do more damage in "lesser" 4-cylinder cars to believe otherwise.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

Protect your own interests, but forget others. Too much of that on this forum. When you're in the rain, 3 major factors change:

1) Visibility. Spray, falling rain, glare (night/wet roads) all reduce visibility. You can't avoid what you don't see in time, and when conditions are worst, you are most likely to encounter a previous accident, flood water, or something that will require you slow down or evade.

2) Traction. A wet road has less traction. ABS allows you to maintain some steering control, but you will still take twice as long to come to a stop compared to dry pavement. If there is any oil film on the road, stopping distance gets even worse. Good tires help some, but come nowhere close to restoring the level of traction you see on dry pavement. You need much more stopping distance than on dry pavement, and you can't change direction as quickly.

3) Hydroplaning. A wet road usually has puddles or a thin layer of water draining off of it. Getting good rain tires help a lot, but if the speed is too high or the water too deep it won't matter. Once you're hydroplaning, it's like ball bearings, and not even ABS can do a thing about it. A great trick for driving in heavy rain is to follow a big rig - all those wheels push a lot of water off the road and if you follow them from a safe distance you can be sure that a) you're getting better traction and b) anything in the road ahead of you both will be moved by the truck.

I could care less if someone overdrives their headlights and spins on a puddle, but I do care when they spin, hit my car or kill someone not protected by a cage of HSLA steel framing.

I admit that in my daily driver, which has good all-season tires, ABS, and FWD, that I go as fast as I feel conditions safely allow. But I keep my daily in tip-top shape for rain performance, which means I replace the tires BEFORE they are at minimum tread depth, I keep my windshield wipers and glass clean, I try to pay sharp attention to looking as far ahead as possible and monitoring that effective visibility. In good conditions, it's the limits of the law that limit how I drive. In bad conditions, the conditions limit how I drive. These are often quite different, and IMO it's entirely stupid to try to relate the two. There is no relation.

But in my FD, I my driving skills probably suck. It's equipped with great rain tires (Goodyear Eagle F1s), but that doesn't mean it's a good car for driving in rain. I don't care how good of a driver I could be, it doesn't change the fact that the FD is not well equipped for rain. Just one more reason why the FD should not be a 100% daily driver, IMO.

Dave

13Beast REW

To each his/her own indeed but ultimately there is no excuse for the number of "I wrecked my FD in the rain!" threads that show up on this board. A significant number of FD owners cannot afford a 2nd car. It must be excepted that the FD's value is low enough that it will find its way into the hands of several people with just enough money to buy the car and barely enough to maintain insurance and gas thereafter.

Therefore, in an attempt to maintain the number of FDs on the road and therefore maintaining a market for parts developers and availability of those parts, the issue of handling an FD in the rain must be addressed. Experienced and inexperience drivers alike WILL drive their FDs in the rain. I feel its up to the experienced and capable drivers to pass down any knowledge, advise, and/or tips they may have to those individuals who WILL be driving their FDs in the rain.

Offering the advise to simply not drive in the rain is impracticle and as time has shown, it must be expected that it will not be heeded to rendering that advise as redundant. So... advise to the rain drivers....

PhoenixDownVII

Wow. This isn't a hard concept. It's very much common sense, as outlined in the first post.

Any FD killed in the rain is either due to other things out of your control like any other accident, or the drivers stupidity of underestimating what happens to grip and braking distance in the rain.

/thread.

dgeesaman

iTrader: (7)

I feel that anyone who feels they can afford an FD but not a daily driver has their priorities upside-down and backwards. My daily driver is worth less than $5k, and costs me about $500/year in maintenance, and will probably continue like that for another 100k miles.

If your argument is because your parents will only buy you one car, then I think nothing needs to be added to that. It's self explanatory.

Unless you don't drive your car more than a few miles a day on average, the difference in gas mileage alone proves my point. Not to mention comfort, insurance cost, safety...

I'm not arguing that a person shouldn't drive FD's in rain. That's silly. But it requires extra caution, and extra attention to the equipment. Which, since most of us have daily driver cars, make driving the FD in rain an uncommon thing.

Dave

Shinobi-X

Sadly, that point is nothing unique to FD owners, or even cars in general...

13Beast REW

However people priorities are is largley irrelevant as its not stopping people from buy FDs and its not going to stop the current owners in that situation from driving them. Personally I have backup cars. My FD is still my daily driver. When it goes down I simply start driving one of the other cars but personally I perfer to drive my FD in the rain than any other car. I bought my car and pay full coverage insurance to DRIVE my car not look at it in the garage.

RotorJoe

It's raining today, I'm in my FD. I guess I'll walk.

I can't believe this thread has made it this far. I think the moral of the thread is don't be stupid in the rain and learn to drive your car in different conditions.