How do you make the sequential system bullet proof?
08-23-09, 04:51 PM
#1
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How do you make the sequential system bullet proof?
I know there are many reliability mods like down pipe, better intercooler, and rad setups (to name a few).
I also know you can get aftermarket hoses and ties for your rats nest. But what a bout all the other components like actuators, solenoids and so on?
I know the system is old and problematic but is there an after market for the rest of the components? I'm planning on going BNR stage 3 and would like to make the changes all at once.
Any suggestions for bullet proofing the sequential system?
I also know you can get aftermarket hoses and ties for your rats nest. But what a bout all the other components like actuators, solenoids and so on?
I know the system is old and problematic but is there an after market for the rest of the components? I'm planning on going BNR stage 3 and would like to make the changes all at once.
Any suggestions for bullet proofing the sequential system?
08-23-09, 05:23 PM
#2
I know there are many reliability mods like down pipe, better intercooler, and rad setups (to name a few).
I also know you can get aftermarket hoses and ties for your rats nest. But what a bout all the other components like actuators, solenoids and so on?
I know the system is old and problematic but is there an after market for the rest of the components? I'm planning on going BNR stage 3 and would like to make the changes all at once.
Any suggestions for bullet proofing the sequential system?
I also know you can get aftermarket hoses and ties for your rats nest. But what a bout all the other components like actuators, solenoids and so on?
I know the system is old and problematic but is there an after market for the rest of the components? I'm planning on going BNR stage 3 and would like to make the changes all at once.
Any suggestions for bullet proofing the sequential system?
08-23-09, 08:19 PM
#6
Naysayers aside, there is a lot of very good information on this site to help you maintain a working sequential system. And as for power, 350-400 RWHP with the BNR's is very respectable! The bottom line is that all the components must work properly. I have the BNR stage 3 sequential setup. I have replaced the 4 solenoids that actually control turbo operation with the "saxyman990" actuators (I don't think those are available any longer??); for reliably running and controling boost above stock I finally gave up on the stock system and went with Greddy Profek B type S EBC (straight foward installation and easy/accurate control); all actuators/components must work (duh) and most can be checked with a mityvac vacuum/pressure tester; all hoses must be in good condition with no leaks. A datalogit system for tuning in general, but relative to this discussion for tuning the tubo transition is also helpful. OK, so is it easy, no, but not impossible if you study the many threads on here related to the topic. Once your reach that point, if you really get into something you can't figure out, many folks on here are willing to lend a hand. Good luck, the BNR Stage 3 sequential setup (with all supporting mods as well of course) is a very fine setup for our cars!
--Jeff
--Jeff
08-23-09, 10:08 PM
#7
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saxyman's solenoids are still available. Here is his website: http://axiomautosports.freehostia.com/products.html
Just a suggestion, though, email him before you pay. I bought mine last year, and had some trouble getting a hold of him for a while. He's respectable, but he does business overseas, so sometimes he's hard to reach.
Just a suggestion, though, email him before you pay. I bought mine last year, and had some trouble getting a hold of him for a while. He's respectable, but he does business overseas, so sometimes he's hard to reach.
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08-24-09, 07:01 AM
#9
from my experience you will get tired of the stock sequential bull crap very quickly.just my opinion
We all have and are entitled to our own opinion on the never ending matter of what Forced induction set up is better for the 3rd gen. Too many people won't take the time to figure out and learn the OEM set up and just simple try to DOG on the subject matter.
Learn it thoroughly so that you are able to pass a fair and clear judgment on the subject matter. With minimum upgrades and care the OEM system is/can be just as bulletproof as running a simple BIG A** single Turbo.
Yes I have driven a non-sequential and single turbo and they also have their Key Selling pointS and so the the OEM sequential.
I would suggest try driving each and every set up to identify which set is best for you before abandoning the SEQuetials.
08-24-09, 12:20 PM
#10
If you are planning on running above 10 psi, take a look at the thread below. You may want to install some pressure control device to the air to the solenoid valves, and limit its pressure to 10 psi or below, independently from the boost you may be running at. Apparently, the OE solenoid springs may not overcome the force resulting from pressure above 10 psi and may cause the solenoid valve to remain stuck open. Resulting in inconsistent operations quite difficult to pinpoint and diagnose, as discussed in the same thread.
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/weird-boost-issue-341534/page2/
- Sandro
https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/weird-boost-issue-341534/page2/
- Sandro
08-24-09, 02:05 PM
#11
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saxyman's solenoids are still available. Here is his website: http://axiomautosports.freehostia.com/products.html
Just a suggestion, though, email him before you pay. I bought mine last year, and had some trouble getting a hold of him for a while. He's respectable, but he does business overseas, so sometimes he's hard to reach.
Just a suggestion, though, email him before you pay. I bought mine last year, and had some trouble getting a hold of him for a while. He's respectable, but he does business overseas, so sometimes he's hard to reach.
08-24-09, 02:55 PM
#12
Why anyone would remove a ton of torque below 4000rpm on a car that is already torque-challenged is beyond me.
As mentioned, upgraded hoses and fresh solenoids should do the trick. While the sequential system is complex, it does not have that many types of components and nearly all failures are solenoid or hose related. The actuators, for example, do not fail all that often.
And the earlier statement that the sequential system does not work well above 10 psi makes little sense. I've been running 14-10-14psi for years. 13-10-13 is very common with, say, M2 or Pettit ECUs and this setup has been around for about a decade.
As mentioned, upgraded hoses and fresh solenoids should do the trick. While the sequential system is complex, it does not have that many types of components and nearly all failures are solenoid or hose related. The actuators, for example, do not fail all that often.
And the earlier statement that the sequential system does not work well above 10 psi makes little sense. I've been running 14-10-14psi for years. 13-10-13 is very common with, say, M2 or Pettit ECUs and this setup has been around for about a decade.
08-24-09, 03:01 PM
#13
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If you are planning on running above 10 psi, take a look at the thread below. You may want to install some pressure control device to the air to the solenoid valves, and limit its pressure to 10 psi or below, independently from the boost you may be running at. Apparently, the OE solenoid springs may not overcome the force resulting from pressure above 10 psi and may cause the solenoid valve to remain stuck open. Resulting in inconsistent operations quite difficult to pinpoint and diagnose, as discussed in the same thread.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=341534&page=2
- Sandro
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=341534&page=2
- Sandro
08-24-09, 03:33 PM
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I am new but I think it depends a lot on what you are going to do. Cruise around the street with the occasional spirited drive you will be able to make the stock set up work with enough patience, research and/or $$.
Want to do some track driving or do a lot of aggressive street driving and canyon carving I am going with Howard Coleman that there is a lot of thermal challenges to overcome with the stock set up. Even with AI I think having that big "hunk of iron" bolted to the hot aluminum motor may require occasional maintenance.
Want to do some track driving or do a lot of aggressive street driving and canyon carving I am going with Howard Coleman that there is a lot of thermal challenges to overcome with the stock set up. Even with AI I think having that big "hunk of iron" bolted to the hot aluminum motor may require occasional maintenance.
08-24-09, 04:22 PM
#15
You wont need the upgraded solenoids if you limit the boost pressure to the stock ones. The stock solenoids are perfectly fine. My sequentials stayed reliable all the way till 108k orginals miles till I blew my engine. I will admit, my engine did have the factory replacement vacumm lines at some point in it's past. I found this out when I checked the warranty history when I worked at my local Mazda dealership. I bought the car with 65,000 miles back in Jan 93 and had years of trouble free driving. Anyways my car was practically stock all it's life. The main problem with having an unreliable seq system is over boosting the stock solenoids. If you keep the boost to the stock solenoids at STOCK levels, you will virtually eliminate the majority of the boost related probems to the seq system. Sandro already posted the link that you need to read.
08-24-09, 05:37 PM
#17
Why anyone would remove a ton of torque below 4000rpm on a car that is already torque-challenged is beyond me.
As mentioned, upgraded hoses and fresh solenoids should do the trick. While the sequential system is complex, it does not have that many types of components and nearly all failures are solenoid or hose related. The actuators, for example, do not fail all that often.
And the earlier statement that the sequential system does not work well above 10 psi makes little sense. I've been running 14-10-14psi for years. 13-10-13 is very common with, say, M2 or Pettit ECUs and this setup has been around for about a decade.
As mentioned, upgraded hoses and fresh solenoids should do the trick. While the sequential system is complex, it does not have that many types of components and nearly all failures are solenoid or hose related. The actuators, for example, do not fail all that often.
And the earlier statement that the sequential system does not work well above 10 psi makes little sense. I've been running 14-10-14psi for years. 13-10-13 is very common with, say, M2 or Pettit ECUs and this setup has been around for about a decade.
- Sandro
08-24-09, 06:18 PM
#18
Where did you read such statement? If you are referring to my post, read it again. I didn't say you should limit boost to 10 psi. I was talking about recommendations limits for the air acting on the solenoid valves , because apparently 10 psi is the condition the OE control valves were designed for, as thoroughly discussed in the thread I referred to. Nothing to do with boost pressure, be it 13 or 14 psi.
- Sandro
- Sandro
08-24-09, 07:02 PM
#19
I was the one that said the stock sequential vac system does not work well above the stock settings. and just like you said "in other words" the stock system was not designed for higher boost. I am sure with upgraded solenoids and mods it can run just fine but why would anyone spend so much time and money on something so limited. If you ask me Its not worth the hassle for such little power.I still have the stock system and i have researched so much in the forums that my final conclusion is "ditch the stock system and go non sequential or single turbo" unless you want to keep the car stock.
If the issue is having more power and as you have stated " why would anyone spend so much time and money on something so limited" you should by all means get a single turbo set up. As far as the money issue i would have to disagree on running OEM, Once you change out the lines and assure the proper running of all the nick knack you are good for at least 65k miles on them with out any issues.
How much does a silicone hose kit cost and solenoids are cheap enough!!!
I just don't understand the argument that OEM set up is not cost effective.
08-24-09, 07:19 PM
#20
If the issue is having more power and as you have stated " why would anyone spend so much time and money on something so limited" you should by all means get a single turbo set up. As far as the money issue i would have to disagree on running OEM, Once you change out the lines and assure the proper running of all the nick knack you are good for at least 65k miles on them with out any issues.
How much does a silicone hose kit cost and solenoids are cheap enough!!!
I just don't understand the argument that OEM set up is not cost effective.
How much does a silicone hose kit cost and solenoids are cheap enough!!!
I just don't understand the argument that OEM set up is not cost effective.
08-24-09, 09:31 PM
#22
saxyman's solenoids are still available. Here is his website: http://axiomautosports.freehostia.com/products.html
Just a suggestion, though, email him before you pay. I bought mine last year, and had some trouble getting a hold of him for a while. He's respectable, but he does business overseas, so sometimes he's hard to reach.
Just a suggestion, though, email him before you pay. I bought mine last year, and had some trouble getting a hold of him for a while. He's respectable, but he does business overseas, so sometimes he's hard to reach.
While he is respectable and put together a fine product. An answer to an email may be awhile; for me 2 months and counting with money in his paypal account
08-24-09, 09:37 PM
#23
Why anyone would remove a ton of torque below 4000rpm on a car that is already torque-challenged is beyond me.
As mentioned, upgraded hoses and fresh solenoids should do the trick. While the sequential system is complex, it does not have that many types of components and nearly all failures are solenoid or hose related. The actuators, for example, do not fail all that often.
And the earlier statement that the sequential system does not work well above 10 psi makes little sense. I've been running 14-10-14psi for years. 13-10-13 is very common with, say, M2 or Pettit ECUs and this setup has been around for about a decade.
As mentioned, upgraded hoses and fresh solenoids should do the trick. While the sequential system is complex, it does not have that many types of components and nearly all failures are solenoid or hose related. The actuators, for example, do not fail all that often.
And the earlier statement that the sequential system does not work well above 10 psi makes little sense. I've been running 14-10-14psi for years. 13-10-13 is very common with, say, M2 or Pettit ECUs and this setup has been around for about a decade.
08-24-09, 11:27 PM
#24
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Sheesh, are you serious? You've been waiting for 2 months and still haven't received them? Makes me think twice about ordering them, but unless I want to keep on swapping out solenoids I need to order them since nobody else makes a solenoid replacement solution....
08-25-09, 02:38 AM
#25
Where did you read such statement? If you are referring to my post, read it again. I didn't say you should limit boost to 10 psi. I was talking about recommendations limits for the air acting on the solenoid valves , because apparently 10 psi is the condition the OE control valves were designed for, as thoroughly discussed in the thread I referred to. Nothing to do with boost pressure, be it 13 or 14 psi.
- Sandro
- Sandro