Hot start epic fail
06-04-12, 01:03 PM
#1
Hot start epic fail
Ok, so I've had this problem since I bought the car. It runs great, everything has been replaced and all of the preventative maintenance performed. So I can drive the car for a while then park it, say going to the bank or the store, leave for ten minutes, come back and the car won't start... It'll crank and crank and oh OH! Oh nevermind... crank crank, pump, crank etc... then finally come to life after 15 tries or more. I'm really getting tired of this and it's my only remaining bug on the car. Any thoughts?
-new fuel filter
-new injector o-rings
-new vac hoses
-new harness
-new starter
-new plugs
-no CEL codes
-91 octane fuel
-fresh battery
The only thing I haven't changed is my plug wires (I will be on wednesday 6-6-12) and i haven't had my injectors tested... any thoughts? Idle adjustment is fine and no connectors are broken.
-new fuel filter
-new injector o-rings
-new vac hoses
-new harness
-new starter
-new plugs
-no CEL codes
-91 octane fuel
-fresh battery
The only thing I haven't changed is my plug wires (I will be on wednesday 6-6-12) and i haven't had my injectors tested... any thoughts? Idle adjustment is fine and no connectors are broken.
06-04-12, 01:13 PM
#2
Changing your wires definitely wouldn't hurt if they're worn. 
You could also be experiencing a coil issue...
When the car does finally start it doesn't blow any white smoke, correct? Reason I ask is because if you have a blown coolant seal/seals it's likely that your cooling system will overpressurize (by exhaust pressure) while the car is running, then coolant will leak into the rotor housing/housings when you shut the car off. Then, you go to start it next and it won't start because coolant doesn't burn. Those were my EXACT symptoms when I had a blown coolant seal...Hopefully not your problem, though!
But I would definitely start with those plug wires.
Worn plug wires especially like to malfunction when they're extremely hot! 
You could also be experiencing a coil issue...When the car does finally start it doesn't blow any white smoke, correct? Reason I ask is because if you have a blown coolant seal/seals it's likely that your cooling system will overpressurize (by exhaust pressure) while the car is running, then coolant will leak into the rotor housing/housings when you shut the car off. Then, you go to start it next and it won't start because coolant doesn't burn. Those were my EXACT symptoms when I had a blown coolant seal...Hopefully not your problem, though!
But I would definitely start with those plug wires.
Worn plug wires especially like to malfunction when they're extremely hot!
06-04-12, 01:30 PM
#4
If this works, install a momentary switch that switches off your fuel pump so when you need to turn the car off, just hold the switch for 1-2s before shutting off the car.
I have one on my car, I use it to shut off my car when it's not fully warm (like moving it around my driveway)
I have one on my car, I use it to shut off my car when it's not fully warm (like moving it around my driveway)
06-04-12, 02:03 PM
#6
When you do the plug wires I would throw in a known good set of used coils. Those things will give you problems like that when they near the end of their lives. Or buy a new set, they are relatively cheap from Ray.
06-04-12, 02:07 PM
#7
Try cleaning your MAP sensor and your ISC solenoid if you are using its feedback to idle.
Also, is your TPS registering the proper voltages?
One more thing.. the heat can deteriorate the current in the charging system... i.e. one of the charging wires gets old and doesn't tolerate a hot engine bay as well as it use too and the low current doesn't turn the engine over strong enough. I read up on this somewhere, but can't place it right now.
I've had the hot start problem as well and it turned out to be a minor vacuum leak or a dirty MAP sensor. I cleaned the MAP and tightened up what looked to be a loose connection and my problems were gone. Triple check for those leaks.
Also, is your TPS registering the proper voltages?
One more thing.. the heat can deteriorate the current in the charging system... i.e. one of the charging wires gets old and doesn't tolerate a hot engine bay as well as it use too and the low current doesn't turn the engine over strong enough. I read up on this somewhere, but can't place it right now.
I've had the hot start problem as well and it turned out to be a minor vacuum leak or a dirty MAP sensor. I cleaned the MAP and tightened up what looked to be a loose connection and my problems were gone. Triple check for those leaks.
Last edited by camajo; 06-04-12 at 02:18 PM.
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06-04-12, 04:21 PM
#8
Ok, I'll have to find out what the ISC is, and clean out my MAP sensor. Do you reccomend just using a can of MAF sensor cleaner from a local parts store or is it a special technique? And nope there's no white smoke! I just rebuilt my motor not too long ago, the block is solid, and even my oil pan doesn't leak ^_^ I'm going to pull the mini harness off of my coils again and check it for cracks and to see if it grounding out and then replace those plug wires, as far as the vacuum lines go I'll be tripple checking they are all hooked up correctly. I know all of my check valves are good so thats a start, I won't be able to do anything until after class to night so I'll let everyone know how it goes later on.
06-04-12, 04:45 PM
#10
Did you use new apex seals and reuse old rotor housings? If so, thats why you are having hot start problems. How many miles on the motor so far? Hot start issues should stop after around 1-2k miles
06-05-12, 02:35 PM
#13
I've been having this horrible studdering/misfire/3k flop lately and I'm pretty sure my electrical system is pretty messed up. I'm going to clean all of my engine grounds this afternoon, install those new wires, and verify all of my vacuum lines are on correctly... updates later on
06-05-12, 03:03 PM
#14
^I'd say that's a very good place to start. Verify you have clean grounds, and make sure your vacuum lines aren't baked. Are you running silicone lines? Stock vac lines are very prone to cracking due to heat. Getting those plug wires installed is a must, too.
Verify you have clean grounds, and make sure your vacuum lines aren't baked. Are you running silicone lines? Stock vac lines are very prone to cracking due to heat. Getting those plug wires installed is a must, too.
06-06-12, 02:04 AM
#15
Well my plugs are in and my grounds are super shiny, problem may be my lead coil. The spark appears to be erratic and doesn't seem super consistent unlike my trailing coils, the car also Boggs really bad when heavily loaded under 3k rpm... Crap, time to test that next!
06-06-12, 10:08 AM
#18
DriftDreamzSS - Yah I'm in the Ventura area, the coil was just kind of dirty and funky looking, I'm not sure what it's supposed to look like. I don't have the fsm to check it and see what it's supposed to read out but when we had the timing light on the leading ignition wires it sputtered and jumped unlike the trailing coils which had nice solid flashing patterns. Any ideas?
06-06-12, 01:06 PM
#20
Ensure you clean dirty coils. Like physically clean them:
Inside the coil are thousands of tiny copper windings. In other words, there is an extremely thin series of copper wires wrapped around each other, which amplifies the 12 volts coming into the coil. Once the electricity begins passing through the coil windings, a magnetic field is created that exponentially increases the voltage. The creation of power causes heat, so try not to touch the coil for a while after it has been working.
That's from ehow. Because the coil creates a magnetic field it is prone to attracting ferrous particles. Clean your coils!
My 3k rpm hesitation was recently quelled by a new o2 sensor. Ensure your grounds are clean and add some new ones. Make sure regular maintenance is up to date and you'll figure it out
Inside the coil are thousands of tiny copper windings. In other words, there is an extremely thin series of copper wires wrapped around each other, which amplifies the 12 volts coming into the coil. Once the electricity begins passing through the coil windings, a magnetic field is created that exponentially increases the voltage. The creation of power causes heat, so try not to touch the coil for a while after it has been working.
That's from ehow. Because the coil creates a magnetic field it is prone to attracting ferrous particles. Clean your coils!
My 3k rpm hesitation was recently quelled by a new o2 sensor. Ensure your grounds are clean and add some new ones. Make sure regular maintenance is up to date and you'll figure it out
06-06-12, 02:23 PM
#21
Thanks for all the responses so far! I made sure all of my grounds were spotless, next I'll be replacing my 02 sensor because it's extremely old. I also picked up a digital copy of the FSM and I'm going to go through the troubleshooting section and follow up on everything that corresponds to all of my problems. Wish me luck I'll keep posting updates!
06-08-12, 04:45 PM
#22
Alright injectors are going to be sent off to Witch Hunter Performance next week, and while they're away I'll be checking all of my ignition based sensors and connectors for proper ohmage and connectivity. I will update as I go and post my readings from the sensors compared to the FSM specs!
06-09-12, 08:36 AM
#24
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Someone may of already mentioned it but the 1st sign of low compression is a hot start fail. Usually if this is the case once the car is cool say 83c on the PFC it'll crank because the housings have expanded enough to create a better seal. When you shut it down and go into a store for 5 or 10 minutes the engine temp can get very hot as high as 117c.
Heat can definitely effect the coils but probably not the wires. I have lots of nice used coils laying around so if you need some shoot me a PM.
Heat can definitely effect the coils but probably not the wires. I have lots of nice used coils laying around so if you need some shoot me a PM.