HKS Twin Pak Ignition
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,131
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From: IN
Re: HKS Install
Damn, these are $510 + $37 for the harness http://66.216.67.51/subcatmfgprod.asp?0=213&1=276&2=-1
Originally posted by SleepR1
Sweet! I want Zavier to install mine like this
Sweet! I want Zavier to install mine like this
Rotary Freak
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 0
From: fort worth, tx, usa
I have no doubts that a stock ignition is probably sufficient for 400rwhp. but did you take wear and tear into consideration? What is the MTBF of the stock ignition coil ? How many people out there are running 15-20k miles coil? If mazda engineers designed the coil using six sigma, at what point will the mean started to shift to the left? The fact is that coils don't perform the same over time. I worked as an EE for a telecom industry for over 6yrs and have designed signal generators, mixers, Power ampliers and LNA for years. Coils and electric fan have the worst MTBF out of all the electrical components. That's why most guys with low mileage have less chances of ignition breakup over guys with 100k miles.
Originally posted by Yellow R1
My brother has been building, porting, running Nitrous Oxide, on rotaries for over 24 years. He (and I) know other rotary experts & exchange rotary knowlede with these guys on a routine basis (they have been in the rotary business longer than Steve Kan). This rotary knowledge expands beyond the engine & into EVERY aspect of 1st, 2nd, & 3rd gen RX-7s. I'd put our rotary knowlede up against anyone in this country. Period.
Additionally, everyone of our respected counterparts we speak to (that actually KNOWS their shi$ like us & RACES), confirm there is no need for ignition amplification up to 400 RWHP). This has also been confirmed by my own dyno pulls on my 380 RWHP CYM & my brother's (he's pushing a hair more than myself - there is NO break up whatsoever).
Last point, the problem (fried the plugs, the wires, and was arcing from the plug to the shock tower) was solved PRIMARILY due to changing the plugs (mine must have been bad after only 5k miles).
1) I didn't really need the increased spark, when I pulled
the HKS - BINGO - problem gone.
2) I changed the manufacturer of the plugs from HKS to NGK based on what felt was a superior plug (both are Iridium 10s, the NGK's have a better seal & fit than the HKSs). I could not use the "old" plugs for obvious reasons.
3) I pulled out the "higher performing" MSD wires that had been destroyed & replaced them with stockers - no issues.
Its your call if you want to play around with different variables in your engine bay while your car is arcing & can start a serious fire. I opted to return the ignition to stock based on my earlier input that I did not need the aforementioned upgrades. Additionally, I needed my car at Laguna Seca so I could track it (no time to test each sub variable to confirm what I already knew).
-Matt
My brother has been building, porting, running Nitrous Oxide, on rotaries for over 24 years. He (and I) know other rotary experts & exchange rotary knowlede with these guys on a routine basis (they have been in the rotary business longer than Steve Kan). This rotary knowledge expands beyond the engine & into EVERY aspect of 1st, 2nd, & 3rd gen RX-7s. I'd put our rotary knowlede up against anyone in this country. Period.
Additionally, everyone of our respected counterparts we speak to (that actually KNOWS their shi$ like us & RACES), confirm there is no need for ignition amplification up to 400 RWHP). This has also been confirmed by my own dyno pulls on my 380 RWHP CYM & my brother's (he's pushing a hair more than myself - there is NO break up whatsoever).
Last point, the problem (fried the plugs, the wires, and was arcing from the plug to the shock tower) was solved PRIMARILY due to changing the plugs (mine must have been bad after only 5k miles).
1) I didn't really need the increased spark, when I pulled
the HKS - BINGO - problem gone.
2) I changed the manufacturer of the plugs from HKS to NGK based on what felt was a superior plug (both are Iridium 10s, the NGK's have a better seal & fit than the HKSs). I could not use the "old" plugs for obvious reasons.
3) I pulled out the "higher performing" MSD wires that had been destroyed & replaced them with stockers - no issues.
Its your call if you want to play around with different variables in your engine bay while your car is arcing & can start a serious fire. I opted to return the ignition to stock based on my earlier input that I did not need the aforementioned upgrades. Additionally, I needed my car at Laguna Seca so I could track it (no time to test each sub variable to confirm what I already knew).
-Matt
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,131
Likes: 2
From: IN
Steve, my coils are 12 years old and 117,000 miles. Matches up well with what you just posted below! Power amps eh? I used to be into hi-fi before I got into sports cars (and opentracking )
)
Originally posted by pluto
I have no doubts that a stock ignition is probably sufficient for 400rwhp. but did you take wear and tear into consideration? What is the MTBF of the stock ignition coil ? How many people out there are running 15-20k miles coil? If mazda engineers designed the coil using six sigma, at what point will the mean started to shift to the left? The fact is that coils don't perform the same over time. I worked as an EE for a telecom industry for over 6yrs and have designed signal generators, mixers, Power ampliers and LNA for years. Coils and electric fan have the worst MTBF out of all the electrical components. That's why most guys with low mileage have less chances of ignition breakup over guys with 100k miles.
I have no doubts that a stock ignition is probably sufficient for 400rwhp. but did you take wear and tear into consideration? What is the MTBF of the stock ignition coil ? How many people out there are running 15-20k miles coil? If mazda engineers designed the coil using six sigma, at what point will the mean started to shift to the left? The fact is that coils don't perform the same over time. I worked as an EE for a telecom industry for over 6yrs and have designed signal generators, mixers, Power ampliers and LNA for years. Coils and electric fan have the worst MTBF out of all the electrical components. That's why most guys with low mileage have less chances of ignition breakup over guys with 100k miles.
PV = nRT
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,250
Likes: 0
From: New Zealand (was California)
Originally posted by krazywli19
So you guys know the HKS does nothing except increase dwell time of the coil. It's a rather simple device that they charge an a$$ load for. This subject was discussed on the aem ems forums a while ago
So you guys know the HKS does nothing except increase dwell time of the coil. It's a rather simple device that they charge an a$$ load for. This subject was discussed on the aem ems forums a while ago
What is Dwell Time
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,131
Likes: 2
From: IN
Got my HKS Twin Power installed. Big difference in performance numbers. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...50#post2751350
I agree with SleepR1. $500 was well worth the money to eliminate that hesitation at high rpm at 14psi.
One thing I've noticed is that the plugs are worn out faster, like 3000 miles instead of 10,000 miles.
One thing I've noticed is that the plugs are worn out faster, like 3000 miles instead of 10,000 miles.
Originally posted by pomanferrari
I agree with SleepR1. $500 was well worth the money to eliminate that hesitation at high rpm at 14psi.
One thing I've noticed is that the plugs are worn out faster, like 3000 miles instead of 10,000 miles.
I agree with SleepR1. $500 was well worth the money to eliminate that hesitation at high rpm at 14psi.
One thing I've noticed is that the plugs are worn out faster, like 3000 miles instead of 10,000 miles.
My definition of "worn out" is to look at the plugs center electrode. If it has a rounded surface then it's worn out. Compare this center electrode with a new one. The new one has an end planar surface intersecting with a cylinder. The worn out one has a conical surface (tampon tip?)
No it's not Turbo'd
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,511
Likes: 2
From: Los Angeles, Ca
Does anybody have / post numbers (searched Ignition Breakup) for what a good coil / vs a bad coil reads Ohm Wise !? So you can see how bad the old ones are !?
Also any info on whatever grounding you're doing in the fuel pump / gas tank area would be greatly appreciated...
BTW I'm having bad Breakup on the AEM Box, swapped it for the HKS, made 8 HP, and significantly reduced the oscilations in RWHP. I fear though that my coils are bad, since other than,
1) Igniter
2) Wires
3) Coils
4) Plugs
there's nothing else left....
Igniter is working, has been tested as good, and if it wasn't it wouldn't even fire/trigger the plugs
Wires are relatively new 1 Year Old 10mm Magnacore
Plugs are brand new 9's
That leaves the coils, since I allready stated that 2 different ignition amps were tested and could not completely rectify the situation.
Also For the 400 RWHP "Myth" record, I ended up making
270 RWHP
10 Psi Boost
Street Port
Full Exhaust
Gt 35/40 Single Turbo
550 Pri / 1680 Sec. Fuel
And we stopped due to pretty severe breakup, and the HP / Tourque curve just platoed, after 5-6k RPM....
Also are there diffrenent manufacturers of coils, one beeing better than others !?
I know FC Coils are supposedly better, but I lack the real-estate under the hood, not to mention the desire for the ensueing wireing / ignitor headache that follows.
Any Info advice, suggestion, experience, other than, "you're a moron(BTW, I know, I own a 7)"..., unproductive comments etc... are welcome...
Also any info on whatever grounding you're doing in the fuel pump / gas tank area would be greatly appreciated...
BTW I'm having bad Breakup on the AEM Box, swapped it for the HKS, made 8 HP, and significantly reduced the oscilations in RWHP. I fear though that my coils are bad, since other than,
1) Igniter
2) Wires
3) Coils
4) Plugs
there's nothing else left....
Igniter is working, has been tested as good, and if it wasn't it wouldn't even fire/trigger the plugs
Wires are relatively new 1 Year Old 10mm Magnacore
Plugs are brand new 9's
That leaves the coils, since I allready stated that 2 different ignition amps were tested and could not completely rectify the situation.
Also For the 400 RWHP "Myth" record, I ended up making
270 RWHP
10 Psi Boost
Street Port
Full Exhaust
Gt 35/40 Single Turbo
550 Pri / 1680 Sec. Fuel
And we stopped due to pretty severe breakup, and the HP / Tourque curve just platoed, after 5-6k RPM....
Also are there diffrenent manufacturers of coils, one beeing better than others !?
I know FC Coils are supposedly better, but I lack the real-estate under the hood, not to mention the desire for the ensueing wireing / ignitor headache that follows.
Any Info advice, suggestion, experience, other than, "you're a moron(BTW, I know, I own a 7)"..., unproductive comments etc... are welcome...
Last edited by DCrosby; May 2, 2005 at 01:19 AM.
No it's not Turbo'd
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,511
Likes: 2
From: Los Angeles, Ca
Are these the stock Coils (Mazda used AC Delco !?)
Lead AC DELCO E564A
Trail Front AC DELCO E565A
Trail Rear AC DELCO E566A
I Believe, they look right !?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
and as an alternative, has anybody seen / tried these ?
KEM 348F IGNITION COIL
Note: leading coil @ $225 ??
KEM 348C IGNITION COIL
Note: trailing coil @ $120 ??
Is this worth it !?
Lead AC DELCO E564A
Trail Front AC DELCO E565A
Trail Rear AC DELCO E566A
I Believe, they look right !?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
and as an alternative, has anybody seen / tried these ?
KEM 348F IGNITION COIL
Note: leading coil @ $225 ??
KEM 348C IGNITION COIL
Note: trailing coil @ $120 ??
Is this worth it !?
